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Thread: Immigration & Prop 8 from an Apostle

  1. #181

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    Quote Originally Posted by Indy Coug View Post
    Will that make them shorter?
    I knew that we could bring you along on this if we just found the right "in."

  2. #182
    Heartless Bastard Indy Coug's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UtahDan View Post
    I knew that we could bring you along on this if we just found the right "in."
    Didn't realize I was against it, nor that this was an item of concern.
    Everything in life is an approximation.

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  3. #183
    Heartless Bastard Indy Coug's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scottie View Post
    My daughters hope that some day women will be allowed to pray in General Conference.
    http://www.cougarboard.com/board/mes...tml?id=6391697
    Everything in life is an approximation.

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  4. #184
    sweet triple TripletDaddy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scottie View Post
    My daughters hope that some day women will be allowed to pray in General Conference.
    I wish they would give more talks in GC. More time for food breaks.
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  5. #185

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    Quote Originally Posted by nikuman View Post
    Didn't that happen last general conference?
    Negative...

    http://lds.org/ensign/2010/11/summar...rence?lang=eng

    Saturday Morning, October 2, 2010, General Session
    Invocation: Elder Octaviano Tenorio. Benediction: Elder Eduardo Gavarret.

    Saturday Afternoon, October 2, 2010, General Session
    Invocation: Elder Claudio D. Zivic. Benediction: Elder Jorge F. Zeballos.

    Sunday Morning, October 3, 2010, General Session
    Invocation: Elder Gérald Caussé. Benediction: Elder Carlos A. Godoy.

    Sunday Afternoon, October 3, 2010, General Session
    Invocation: Elder Lawrence E. Corbridge. Benediction: Bishop H. David Burton.

  6. #186
    One man.....one pie Moliere's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by creekster View Post
    That and uni-sex bathrooms. I remember a lot of people in my neighborhood being really worried about that.
    I totally understand this one. I'd hate for men's bathrooms to have the same lines as the women's. The church may have been on the wrong side of the ERA but they were on the right side with this issue.
    "Discipleship is not a spectator sport. We cannot expect to experience the blessing of faith by standing inactive on the sidelines any more than we can experience the benefits of health by sitting on a sofa watching sporting events on television and giving advice to the athletes. And yet for some, “spectator discipleship” is a preferred if not primary way of worshipping." -Pres. Uchtdorf

  7. #187

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    Quote Originally Posted by TripletDaddy View Post
    we are definitely seeing more unisex bathrooms
    The bathroom in my home is unisex. I just don't open the door when my wife is in there.

  8. #188
    Receiver of Memory LA Ute's Avatar
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    I was in law school during the ERA fight. There were many statements made to the effect that without the ERA's passage, the cause of women's rights would suffer greatly. Has that happened? (I am mostly joking but would be interested in perspectives on the question.)
    “There is a great deal of difference in believing something still, and believing it again.”
    ― W.H. Auden


    "God made the angels to show His splendour - as He made animals for innocence and plants for their simplicity. But men and women He made to serve Him wittily, in the tangle of their minds."
    -- Robert Bolt, A Man for All Seasons


    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

  9. #189
    sweet triple TripletDaddy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    I was in law school during the ERA fight. There were many statements made to the effect that without the ERA's passage, the cause of women's rights would suffer greatly. Has that happened? (I am mostly joking but would be interested in perspectives on the question.)
    Why not provide some quotes and then we can discuss them.
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  10. #190

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    Quote Originally Posted by Indy Coug View Post
    Didn't realize I was against it, nor that this was an item of concern.
    I am happy to have raised your awareness, even self awareness.

  11. #191
    Last edited by Solon; 01-05-2011 at 03:19 PM. Reason: addenda
    "More crazy people to Provo go than to any other town in the state."
    -- Iron County Record. 23 August, 1912. (http://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/lc...23/ed-1/seq-4/)

  12. #192
    sweet triple TripletDaddy's Avatar
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    Interesting stuff you have linked here.

    The LDS lnks didnt seem to contain the paraphrased quote that LA Ute was citing.

    The Sonia Johnson stuff didn't either but I remember reading about her previously.
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  13. #193
    Receiver of Memory LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TripletDaddy View Post
    Why not provide some quotes and then we can discuss them.
    Sorry, I am too lazy. I was just going from hazy memory.
    “There is a great deal of difference in believing something still, and believing it again.”
    ― W.H. Auden


    "God made the angels to show His splendour - as He made animals for innocence and plants for their simplicity. But men and women He made to serve Him wittily, in the tangle of their minds."
    -- Robert Bolt, A Man for All Seasons


    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

  14. #194

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    Quote Originally Posted by TripletDaddy View Post
    Interesting stuff you have linked here.

    The LDS lnks didnt seem to contain the paraphrased quote that LA Ute was citing.

    The Sonia Johnson stuff didn't either but I remember reading about her previously.
    Maybe LA was thinking of the 1976 statement. I added it in to my original post, but here's the part that might qualify:
    “There have been injustices to women before the law and in society generally. These we deplore.
    “There are additional rights to which women are entitled.
    “However, we firmly believe that the Equal Rights Amendment is not the answer.
    “While the motives of its supporters may be praiseworthy, ERA as a blanket attempt to help women could indeed bring them far more restraints and repressions. We fear it will even stifle many God-given feminine instincts.
    “It would strike at the family, humankind’s basic institution. ERA would bring ambiguity and possibly invite extensive litigation.
    “Passage of ERA, some legal authorities contend, could nullify many accumulated benefits to women in present statutes.
    “We recognize men and women as equally important before the Lord, but with differences biologically, emotionally, and in other ways.
    “ERA, we believe, does not recognize these differences. There are better means for giving women, and men, the rights they deserve.”
    http://lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?vg...____&hideNav=1
    FWIW
    "More crazy people to Provo go than to any other town in the state."
    -- Iron County Record. 23 August, 1912. (http://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/lc...23/ed-1/seq-4/)

  15. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by Solon View Post
    Maybe LA was thinking of the 1976 statement. I added it in to my original post, but here's the part that might qualify:


    FWIW
    Your quotes are from the Church's POV. I think LA Ute was taking the opposite tact. He was basically saying, "those that were pro ERA and disagreed with the Church's position made X claims...the ERA did not pass...did X claims ever come true?"

    I noticed that LA Ute was "too lazy" to produce any such quotes. You seemed to find a bunch of tangentially related quotes within minutes. Maybe those other quotes don't exist?
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  16. #196

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    Quote Originally Posted by TripletDaddy View Post
    Your quotes are from the Church's POV. I think LA Ute was taking the opposite tact. He was basically saying, "those that were pro ERA and disagreed with the Church's position made X claims...the ERA did not pass...did X claims ever come true?"

    I noticed that LA Ute was "too lazy" to produce any such quotes. You seemed to find a bunch of tangentially related quotes within minutes. Maybe those other quotes don't exist?
    Yeah, I don't know what LA was getting at. That's up to him to illuminate or obfuscate.

    I thought he was saying that the church's POV implied that the ERA would actually hurt women's rights. But I'm not exactly able to give this thread a close read.
    "More crazy people to Provo go than to any other town in the state."
    -- Iron County Record. 23 August, 1912. (http://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/lc...23/ed-1/seq-4/)

  17. #197
    Receiver of Memory LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TripletDaddy View Post
    Your quotes are from the Church's POV. I think LA Ute was taking the opposite tact. He was basically saying, "those that were pro ERA and disagreed with the Church's position made X claims...the ERA did not pass...did X claims ever come true?"

    I noticed that LA Ute was "too lazy" to produce any such quotes. You seemed to find a bunch of tangentially related quotes within minutes. Maybe those other quotes don't exist?
    I don't know if they do or not. There were people making the case for the ERA and the need for it (like most people, I was totally uninvolved in that battle) so I was just wondering what the passage of time has shown regarding the claims made in support of the pro-ERA case.

    EDIT: On reflection I am not even sure this is worth exploring. Since the ERA did not pass, both sides of the issue are reduced to speculating about what would have happened if it had passed, or what did happen because it didn't pass.
    Last edited by LA Ute; 01-05-2011 at 03:36 PM.
    “There is a great deal of difference in believing something still, and believing it again.”
    ― W.H. Auden


    "God made the angels to show His splendour - as He made animals for innocence and plants for their simplicity. But men and women He made to serve Him wittily, in the tangle of their minds."
    -- Robert Bolt, A Man for All Seasons


    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

  18. #198
    sweet triple TripletDaddy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    I don't know if they do or not. There were people making the case for the ERA and the need for it (like most people, I was totally uninvolved in that battle) so I was just wondering what the passage of time has shown regarding the claims made in support of the pro-ERA case.
    You were totally uninvolved in the passage of an amendment for womens rights and female equality? I guess you were too busy studying for a Con Law class.

    I'm not exactly sure what the quotes were that you reference, but if they are anything like any of the other hyperbolic, over-charged rhetoric that we see at election time, I think it is a fair bet that much of the predicted doom and gloom never came to fruition.
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  19. #199
    Receiver of Memory LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TripletDaddy View Post
    You were totally uninvolved in the passage of an amendment for womens rights and female equality? I guess you were too busy studying for a Con Law class.
    You had to be there in the late 70s. (Were you even alive then?) As I recall (and it's been a long time) the amendment had been approved by almost all the states necessary and the fight was over whether those states could withdraw their approval of the amendment. Those battles went on in other states, which to my 24-25 year-old Utah-based self were distant, obscure places. Sorry, that's just the way it was!
    “There is a great deal of difference in believing something still, and believing it again.”
    ― W.H. Auden


    "God made the angels to show His splendour - as He made animals for innocence and plants for their simplicity. But men and women He made to serve Him wittily, in the tangle of their minds."
    -- Robert Bolt, A Man for All Seasons


    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

  20. #200
    sweet triple TripletDaddy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    You had to be there in the late 70s. (Were you even alive then?) As I recall (and it's been a long time) the amendment had been approved by almost all the states necessary and the fight was over whether those states could withdraw their approval of the amendment. Those battles went on in other states, which to my 24-25 year-old Utah-based self were distant, obscure places. Sorry, that's just the way it was!
    No worries. Many things in our Church's recent history were the result of how things were back then.
    Fitter. Happier. More Productive.


  21. #201

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    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    You had to be there in the late 70s. (Were you even alive then?) As I recall (and it's been a long time) the amendment had been approved by almost all the states necessary and the fight was over whether those states could withdraw their approval of the amendment. Those battles went on in other states, which to my 24-25 year-old Utah-based self were distant, obscure places. Sorry, that's just the way it was!
    The ruling on whether states could revoke their ratifications was given by Judge Marion Callister, a former LDS regional rep. His LDS membership was seen by opponents as a conflict-of-interest, since the church's stance on the ERA was so well known. Callister resigned his position as a regional representative in 1980 and ruled on the case just before Christmas, 1981.

    The Supreme Court eventually ruled on the case. Since part of Callister's ruling was on the Congressionally-imposed time-limit for ratification, the ERA was re-introduced to Congress that summer, just as it still is every year. But, I believe 1982 is the last time the bill made it out of committee.

    http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...33,3472468&dq=

    http://www.time.com/time/magazine/ar...953287,00.html
    "More crazy people to Provo go than to any other town in the state."
    -- Iron County Record. 23 August, 1912. (http://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/lc...23/ed-1/seq-4/)

  22. #202
    It is NOT a monkey! creekster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    You had to be there in the late 70s. (Were you even alive then?) As I recall (and it's been a long time) the amendment had been approved by almost all the states necessary and the fight was over whether those states could withdraw their approval of the amendment. Those battles went on in other states, which to my 24-25 year-old Utah-based self were distant, obscure places. Sorry, that's just the way it was!
    The con-con process was discussed often and it was very clear what a stroll in the wild, wild west one would be.
    PLesa excuse the tpyos.

  23. #203
    Receiver of Memory LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Solon View Post
    The ruling on whether states could revoke their ratifications was given by Judge Marion Callister, a former LDS regional rep. His LDS membership was seen by opponents as a conflict-of-interest, since the church's stance on the ERA was so well known. Callister resigned his position as a regional representative in 1980 and ruled on the case just before Christmas, 1981.

    The Supreme Court eventually ruled on the case. Since part of Callister's ruling was on the Congressionally-imposed time-limit for ratification, the ERA was re-introduced to Congress that summer, just as it still is every year. But, I believe 1982 is the last time the bill made it out of committee.

    http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...33,3472468&dq=

    http://www.time.com/time/magazine/ar...953287,00.html
    I had forgotten all about that, thanks. As I recall, Neal Maxwell's son Cory was a clerk to Judge Callister and that caused a kerfluffle too.
    “There is a great deal of difference in believing something still, and believing it again.”
    ― W.H. Auden


    "God made the angels to show His splendour - as He made animals for innocence and plants for their simplicity. But men and women He made to serve Him wittily, in the tangle of their minds."
    -- Robert Bolt, A Man for All Seasons


    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

  24. #204

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    Alright, cast your vote. Will we be getting a statement from the Church in the coming days about the current border situation with families being separated by the feds? Other churches have already commented.

    I say probably.

  25. #205

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueK View Post
    Alright, cast your vote. Will we be getting a statement from the Church in the coming days about the current border situation with families being separated by the feds? Other churches have already commented.

    I say probably.
    lol. Probably? That's not a vote!

    I say yes.

  26. #206

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    Quote Originally Posted by YOhio View Post
    lol. Probably? That's not a vote!

    I say yes.
    Ok, yes.

  27. #207
    One man.....one pie Moliere's Avatar
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    I vote present.
    "Discipleship is not a spectator sport. We cannot expect to experience the blessing of faith by standing inactive on the sidelines any more than we can experience the benefits of health by sitting on a sofa watching sporting events on television and giving advice to the athletes. And yet for some, “spectator discipleship” is a preferred if not primary way of worshipping." -Pres. Uchtdorf

  28. #208

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    Here it is:

    “The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has long expressed its position that immigration reform should strengthen families and keep them together,” the Church said. “The forced separation of children from their parents now occurring at the U.S.-Mexico border is harmful to families, especially to young children. We are deeply troubled by the aggressive and insensitive treatment of these families.”


    https://www.lds.org/church/news/chur...ation?lang=eng
    Last edited by BlueK; 06-19-2018 at 09:25 AM.

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