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Immigration & Prop 8 from an Apostle

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  • #61
    Originally posted by The_Tick View Post
    I just think it isn't fair to pick on the gays and give the illegals a pass. After all...neither of them had a choice right?
    Pick on the gays? What's the connection here? Do you mean by expecting gay members to live the law of the land, but not illegals?

    Do you mean the church expecting members with same-sex attraction to live the law of chastity, but not illegals?
    Everything in life is an approximation.

    http://twitter.com/CougarStats

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    • #62
      Originally posted by Indy Coug View Post
      Pick on the gays? What's the connection here? Do you mean by expecting gay members to live the law of the land, but not illegals?

      Do you mean the church expecting members with same-sex attraction to live the law of chastity, but not illegals?
      FTR...I am not getting pissy. You just come off as an authority on lots of things.

      I find it curious that the Church is willing to turn a blind eye towards one group of people, while focusing much time and effort against another.

      Also...I consider someone being here illegally a moral issue also.

      If someone is knowingly breaking the law...you would have to question their morals.

      But I am in the camp that gays are born that way, not a choice.

      So...if we shouldn't punish a child born to an illegal, then in my thinking we don't really have a right to punish a gay person for how they were born either.

      The Church is telling gay folks to go ahead and be gay, just don't expect to be married or be recognized as a member of the Church if you are a practicing gay. "Get your sexual orientation squared away and you are good to go."

      The Church should extend the same favor to illegals. You can come to Church if you are illegal, you just can't participate. "Get your Citizenship squared and you are good to go."

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      • #63
        Originally posted by The_Tick View Post
        The Church is telling gay folks to go ahead and be gay, just don't expect to be married or be recognized as a member of the Church if you are a practicing gay. "Get your sexual orientation squared away and you are good to go."
        So if you possess any inborn proclivities you should be allowed to act upon those without ecclesiastical repercussions?

        Gay members are allowed full participation (including priesthood and temple ordinances) as long as they live the law of chastity. Just like straight members.

        Hopfrog seems to have openly reconciled himself with that requirement without malice towards the church (even if he may not have always felt that way in the past).
        Everything in life is an approximation.

        http://twitter.com/CougarStats

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        • #64
          Originally posted by wuapinmon View Post
          Don't roll your eyes at me!


          Of course not. The Church can say, "If you want to serve a mission for the Church, then we'll call you to your home country, so we can be on the right side of the law."

          No one's forcing them to serve a mission. I want them to have an easier time being here legally. But, if they're not, and until that day comes, and they are going to go around representing the Church, I think that their immigration status should be documented.

          El Garrapatas is right.
          So the child has to atone for the sin of their parents?
          Everything in life is an approximation.

          http://twitter.com/CougarStats

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          • #65
            Originally posted by Indy Coug View Post
            So if you possess any inborn proclivities you should be allowed to act upon those without ecclesiastical repercussions?

            Gay members are allowed full participation (including priesthood and temple ordinances) as long as they live the law of chastity. Just like straight members.

            Hopfrog seems to have openly reconciled himself with that requirement without malice towards the church (even if he may not have always felt that way in the past).
            Round and round we go....

            You are recognizing that they are gay. You are telling them two things:

            1. Live your life celebate and have full membership.

            2. Try and fight through a hetero marraige and hope it doesn't fail.

            Neither of those sound like a "Plan of Happiness" to me.

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            • #66
              Originally posted by Indy Coug View Post
              Gay members are allowed full participation (including priesthood and temple ordinances) as long as they live the law of chastity. Just like straight members
              How ludicrous is it to tell someone to live the law of chastity and then not allow them to marry?
              "The mind is not a boomerang. If you throw it too far it will not come back." ~ Tom McGuane

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              • #67
                Originally posted by The_Tick View Post
                You are recognizing that they are gay. You are telling them two things:

                1. Live your life celebate and have full membership.

                2. Try and fight through a hetero marraige and hope it doesn't fail.

                Neither of those sound like a "Plan of Happiness" to me.

                So it's impossible to be happy under #1? My aunt never was married and lived a fulfilling, happy life for 65 years. She definitely would have like to have had her own spouse and children, but it didn't work out for her. However, that made her closer to her extended family than likely would have been otherwise. She was the aunt I was closest to and spent the most time with.

                Ideal situation? Hardly. Was she consigned to a life of misery and woe? No. Will the Plan of Happiness be any less happy for her in her remaining ((Infinity - 65) / Infinity)% of existence? No.
                Everything in life is an approximation.

                http://twitter.com/CougarStats

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by Indy Coug View Post
                  So it's impossible to be happy under #1? My aunt never was married and lived a fulfilling, happy life for 65 years. She definitely would have like to have had her own spouse and children, but it didn't work out for her. However, that made her closer to her extended family than likely would have been otherwise. She was the aunt I was closest to and spent the most time with.

                  Ideal situation? Hardly. Was she consigned to a life of misery and woe? No. Will the Plan of Happiness be any less happy for her in her remaining ((Infinity - 65) / Infinity)% of existence? No.
                  It isn't impossible...as you have pointed out.

                  It is unfair in the demand though as NS has pointed out.

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                  • #69
                    Originally posted by Indy Coug View Post
                    So it's impossible to be happy under #1? My aunt never was married and lived a fulfilling, happy life for 65 years. She definitely would have like to have had her own spouse and children, but it didn't work out for her. However, that made her closer to her extended family than likely would have been otherwise. She was the aunt I was closest to and spent the most time with.

                    Ideal situation? Hardly. Was she consigned to a life of misery and woe? No. Will the Plan of Happiness be any less happy for her in her remaining ((Infinity - 65) / Infinity)% of existence? No.
                    Just curious, have you ever considered that your Aunt might be gay?
                    "I don't mind giving the church 10% of my earnings, but 50% of my weekend mornings? Not as long as DirecTV NFL Sunday Ticket is around." - Daniel Tosh

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                    • #70
                      Originally posted by ewth8tr View Post
                      Just curious, have you ever considered that your Aunt might be gay?
                      Right now, she's dead.
                      Everything in life is an approximation.

                      http://twitter.com/CougarStats

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                      • #71
                        Originally posted by ewth8tr View Post
                        Just curious, have you ever considered that your Aunt might be gay?
                        If she was, it only further proves his point.
                        PLesa excuse the tpyos.

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                        • #72
                          Originally posted by creekster View Post
                          If she was, it only further proves his point.
                          Well, she lived in the Bay Area with another single female LDS member. They did have separate bedrooms.
                          Everything in life is an approximation.

                          http://twitter.com/CougarStats

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                          • #73
                            Originally posted by Indy Coug View Post
                            My aunt never was married and lived a fulfilling, happy life for 65 years. She definitely would have like to have had her own spouse and children, but it didn't work out for her.
                            I'm not intending to be snide or whiny, but hearing about how fulfilling a life of abstinence should be from someone who isn't contemplating that prospect has a semi-hollow ring to it.

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                            • #74
                              Originally posted by beelzebabette View Post
                              I'm not intending to be snide or whiny, but hearing about how fulfilling a life of abstinence should be from someone who isn't contemplating that prospect has a semi-hollow ring to it.
                              Well I guess she could have lied to us about it, but she repeatedly and openly discussed her situation and how she had found happiness despite not being married.

                              I guess I should have tried to call her bluff.
                              Last edited by Indy Coug; 08-27-2010, 01:32 PM.
                              Everything in life is an approximation.

                              http://twitter.com/CougarStats

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                              • #75
                                Originally posted by Indy Coug View Post
                                Well I guess should could have lied to us about it, but she repeatedly and openly discussed her situation and how she had found happiness despite not being married.

                                I guess I should have tried to call her bluff.
                                Yes, that's where I was going with that. Should have gone with my first instinct to delete before submitting.

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