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Thread: Prop 8 Has Been Overturned

  1. #751
    Senior Member BigFatMeanie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TripletDaddy View Post
    Wasn't buying that guy @1:04 being happy to be married to a woman.
    Hah! I saw the episode when it first aired and I had the exact same thought.

    My wife and kids love Studio C. It has its funny moments but not enough to make me want to set my DVR for it.

  2. #752
    Semper infra dignitatem PaloAltoCougar's Avatar
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    An interesting article in this morning's SF Chronicle begins with the story of a couple of guys from Florida who have been together for 44 years and traveled to SF to be married. One marriage commissioner at City Hall said she "asks the couples if they'd mind saying how long they have been together. 'I can't tell you how many have been 20 or 30 years,' she said. 'I've come up with an average of 28 years. And when I ask heterosexual couples, it's often one or two years. Or three months.' Ortega says she knows this probably isn't going to change the minds of hidebound opponents of same-sex marriage. They may never come around. But she says it is striking to see, day after day, week after week, that these are not frivolous, spur-of-the-moment marriages. There are couples who have been in a strong, decades-long relationship. And now, after all that time, they want to stand in public and legally commit to each other in public."

    Obviously, over time, the huge gap between the length of the pre-marital relationships among gays vs. those of straights will diminish and probably be very similar. But it's touching to see these old couples affirming their commitment to each. I'm not seeing a threat to marriage generally, but more of a strengthening.

  3. #753
    Members Only Dwight Schr-ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaloAltoCougar View Post
    I'm not seeing a threat to marriage generally, but more of a strengthening.
    Especially if you ignore the traditional marriage that these people were in for the first 10 years of their homosexual relationship. I kid. I kid.


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  4. #754
    Ragnar Lodbrok Descendant SoCalCoug's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dwight Schr-ute View Post
    Especially if you ignore the traditional marriage that these people were in for the first 10 years of their homosexual relationship. I kid. I kid.


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    Actually, American tradition, going back to the colonies, was common law marriage, which these couples would qualify for simply by living together for the requisite length of time. So, yes, they were in a traditional (i.e., common law) American marriage.
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  5. #755

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    Oh crap. I"m a hack.
    nevermind.
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  6. #756

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    Quote Originally Posted by PaloAltoCougar View Post
    There are couples who have been in a strong, decades-long relationship. And now, after all that time, they want to stand in public and legally commit to each other in public.".
    What prevented them from committing to each other in public before?

  7. #757
    Ragnar Lodbrok Descendant SoCalCoug's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    What prevented them from committing to each other in public before?
    Looks like you missed a word.
    If we disagree on something, it's because you're wrong.

    "Somebody needs to kill my trial attorney." — Last words of George Harris, executed in Missouri on Sept. 13, 2000.

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  8. #758

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    Quote Originally Posted by SoCalCoug View Post
    Looks like you missed a word.
    Add it back in. Same question. The word marriage was not used.

  9. #759
    Semper infra dignitatem PaloAltoCougar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    Add it back in. Same question. The word marriage was not used.
    I used "legal commitment" as a substitute for "marriage" which is "a commitment or union recognized by law." None of those things was available to gay couples until recently. I regret confusing you.

  10. #760
    вот так штука CardiacCoug's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    What prevented them from committing to each other in public before?
    Bigotry.

  11. #761

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    Quote Originally Posted by PaloAltoCougar View Post
    I used "legal commitment" as a substitute for "marriage" which is "a commitment or union recognized by law." None of those things was available to gay couples until recently. I regret confusing you.
    this is pointless, but of course you know that Gay people could have entered into any contract they wanted to prior to current law changes, publicly or otherwise.

  12. #762
    вот так штука CardiacCoug's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    this is pointless, but of course you know that Gay people could have entered into any contract they wanted to prior to current law changes, publicly or otherwise.
    Uhhh.... except for the one known as "marriage" to the person of their choice.

  13. #763
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    this is pointless, but of course you know that Gay people could have entered into any contract they wanted to prior to current law changes, publicly or otherwise.
    Why do you care? The difference between civil union and marriage wasn't very significant, but it mattered to some gays. Now gays an enjoy divorce just like straights. Why should gays be spared the fun?!

  14. #764
    Known Heterosexual RC Vikings's Avatar
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    http://connellodonovan.com/abom.html


    I'm not sure this has been posted before but someone went through a lot of work to research the history of gays and the church.
    Last edited by RC Vikings; 12-22-2013 at 10:31 AM.

  15. #765
    Bald not naked Pelado's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RC Vikings View Post
    http://connellodonovan.com/abom.html


    I'm not sure this has been posted before but someone went through a lot of work to research the history of gays and the church.
    From the link:


    Evidently just after October 1893 general conference, Lorenzo Hunsaker told Clawson that recently "Peter and Weldon, his [half-]brothers had circulated a story in that Ward to the effect that [Lorenzo] had been guilty of sucking their penis [sic]...[for] a period of some two or three years....The question, therefore, was what, under the circumstances had best be done." Clawson counseled Lorenzo Hunsaker "that if I were in his place, I should treat the whole affair with silent contempt, and gave as a reason that the charge was so monstrous and ridiculous that he would be degrading himself in the eyes of sensible people to follow it up....My confidence in the purity of Lorenzo's life and faithfulness as a Latter-day Saint," Clawson confided, "was such that I felt it would be an insult to ask him if he were guilty."[45] Had Clawson asked Hunsaker that very question, events might have turned out differently.
    Two or three years? Impressive endurance.
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  16. #766

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    Quote Originally Posted by Topper View Post
    Why do you care? The difference between civil union and marriage wasn't very significant, but it mattered to some gays. Now gays an enjoy divorce just like straights. Why should gays be spared the fun?!
    I don't like it when people are imprecise and make unfounded claims.

    In this case PaloAlto says he said "legal commitment" as a substitute for marriage. Now, I thought that the quote from from the article PAC linked, but I guess he's taking credit for it. Anyway, why use "legal commitment" as a substitute for the word marriage. If you are talking about marriage, then using the word is more natural, more descriptive, and more succinct. When someone goes out of their way to substituted marriage for a more general and vague "legal commitment" they are doing so for a reason. In this case, the author wanted to make the unequal treatment sound much worse. He and people like him prefer to pretend that marriage means more than it does. Marriage means enough without trying to exaggerate. I read the quote. I thought it was imprecise at best and intentionally misleading at worse, so I pointed out the error. End of story.

  17. #767
    Senior Member byu71's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    I don't like it when people are imprecise and make unfounded claims.

    In this case PaloAlto says he said "legal commitment" as a substitute for marriage. Now, I thought that the quote from from the article PAC linked, but I guess he's taking credit for it. Anyway, why use "legal commitment" as a substitute for the word marriage. If you are talking about marriage, then using the word is more natural, more descriptive, and more succinct. When someone goes out of their way to substituted marriage for a more general and vague "legal commitment" they are doing so for a reason. In this case, the author wanted to make the unequal treatment sound much worse. He and people like him prefer to pretend that marriage means more than it does. Marriage means enough without trying to exaggerate. I read the quote. I thought it was imprecise at best and intentionally misleading at worse, so I pointed out the error. End of story.
    Marriage is no longer marriage in the traditional sense. Whether that is good or bad is irrelevant. It is what it is.

    That being the case why should you or I or anyone care what it is called. How about the "new and enlightened marriage". If that is too long, how about "hook up". Or we could call it "CUNC", committed until not committed.

  18. #768

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    Quote Originally Posted by byu71 View Post
    Marriage is no longer marriage in the traditional sense. Whether that is good or bad is irrelevant. It is what it is.

    That being the case why should you or I or anyone care what it is called. How about the "new and enlightened marriage". If that is too long, how about "hook up". Or we could call it "CUNC", committed until not committed.
    I don't care. I do care what it is and what it means. But that's not what I was talking about in this thread.

  19. #769
    Senior Member byu71's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    I don't care. I do care what it is and what it means. But that's not what I was talking about in this thread.
    Sorry I missed it. I focused in on where you were talking about "substitute" for marriage.

  20. #770
    One man.....one pie Moliere's Avatar
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    The church is still fighting the lgbt fight. I wonder if someday they’ll just give up and allow gays to have equal rights as everyone else

    https://twitter.com/churchnewsroom/s...754702848?s=21
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  21. #771
    Adventurer Walter Sobchak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moliere View Post
    The church is still fighting the lgbt fight. I wonder if someday they’ll just give up and allow gays to have equal rights as everyone else

    https://twitter.com/churchnewsroom/s...754702848?s=21
    Oh, brother. Just provide a link to your podcast already.

    Good for the LDS Church (and the Catholic Church, and the ...). The Equality Act is a legal land grab and should be met with vigorous resistance. For example, gender identity is far too ambiguous to be given a protected class status.
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  22. #772
    𐐐𐐄𐐢𐐆𐐤𐐝 𐐓𐐅 𐐜 𐐢𐐃𐐡𐐔 Uncle Ted's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moliere View Post
    The church is still fighting the lgbt fight. I wonder if someday they’ll just give up and allow gays to have equal rights as everyone else

    https://twitter.com/churchnewsroom/s...754702848?s=21
    Good thing the church changed the temple sealing and marriage ceremony policy... now the church can get out of the marrying business before they are sued.

    Walter, do you have a summon meme for LVAllen?


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  23. #773

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    Quote Originally Posted by Moliere View Post
    The church is still fighting the lgbt fight. I wonder if someday they’ll just give up and allow gays to have equal rights as everyone else

    https://twitter.com/churchnewsroom/s...754702848?s=21
    The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints definition of "fairness for all"

    Religious rights and freedoms: laws need to vigorously protect it
    LGBTQ: laws to give basic human rights

    At least they are honest that they believe religions should be given more protections than LGBTQ people.
    The crux of what has traumatized us about CUF/CG is that we thought they were our friends. And their identity as BYU fans turned out to be the most important thing to them. What empty lives! What a damning indictment of the LDS Church!
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  24. #774
    My Mic Sounds Nice falafel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MartyFunkhouser View Post
    The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints definition of "fairness for all"

    Religious rights and freedoms: laws need to vigorously protect it
    LGBTQ: laws to give basic human rights

    At least they are honest that they believe religions should be given more protections than LGBTQ people.
    Well, freedom of religion is explicitly mentioned in the Constitution.
    Ain't it like most people, I'm no different. We love to talk on things we don't know about.

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  25. #775

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    Quote Originally Posted by falafel View Post
    Well, freedom of religion is explicitly mentioned in the Constitution.
    Absolutely it is and there is religious freedom in our country. It also isn't under attack and there are no need for additional protections. Now in contrast, LBGTQ people have been discriminated against including our Vice President who believes that it should be okay to deny them housing and employment.
    The crux of what has traumatized us about CUF/CG is that we thought they were our friends. And their identity as BYU fans turned out to be the most important thing to them. What empty lives! What a damning indictment of the LDS Church!
    --SeattleUte

    He who drinks beer sleeps well. He who sleeps well cannot sin. He who does not sin goes to heaven. The logic is impeccable.
    --Charles W. Bamforth, Ph.D.

  26. #776
    My Mic Sounds Nice falafel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MartyFunkhouser View Post
    Absolutely it is and there is religious freedom in our country. It also isn't under attack and there are no need for additional protections. Now in contrast, LBGTQ people have been discriminated against including our Vice President who believes that it should be okay to deny them housing and employment.
    A lot of people who disagree with you that freedom of religion isn't under attack and doesn't need any additional protections.
    Ain't it like most people, I'm no different. We love to talk on things we don't know about.

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  27. #777

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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Ted View Post
    Good thing the church changed the temple sealing and marriage ceremony policy... now the church can get out of the marrying business before they are sued.

    Walter, do you have a summon meme for LVAllen?


    Sent from my iPhone and not some dumb Chinese android POS.
    Yeah, I'm still waiting for you to show evidence of any church that has been successfully sued and forced to perform a religious ceremony against its own doctrine. It's a bogeyman that the religious fascists like to prop up so they can scream about the gay agenda.

  28. #778

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    Quote Originally Posted by falafel View Post
    A lot of people who disagree with you that freedom of religion isn't under attack and doesn't need any additional protections.
    I recognize that a lot of people think that religious freedom is under attack and it needs additional protections. There are also people that believe the earth is flat.
    The crux of what has traumatized us about CUF/CG is that we thought they were our friends. And their identity as BYU fans turned out to be the most important thing to them. What empty lives! What a damning indictment of the LDS Church!
    --SeattleUte

    He who drinks beer sleeps well. He who sleeps well cannot sin. He who does not sin goes to heaven. The logic is impeccable.
    --Charles W. Bamforth, Ph.D.

  29. #779
    My Mic Sounds Nice falafel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MartyFunkhouser View Post
    I recognize that a lot of people think that religious freedom is under attack and it needs additional protections. There are also people that believe the earth is flat.
    But not a lot.
    Ain't it like most people, I'm no different. We love to talk on things we don't know about.

    "The only one of us who is so significant that Jeff owes us something simply because he decided to grace us with his presence is falafel." -- All-American

    GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

  30. #780

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    Quote Originally Posted by falafel View Post
    But not a lot.
    True there are not a lot of them.

    I'd be interested to hear all he real world examples of this alleged infringement on religious freedom.

    By the way, if you want to know some real world examples of LGBTQ people discriminated against, I'm happy to provide them.
    The crux of what has traumatized us about CUF/CG is that we thought they were our friends. And their identity as BYU fans turned out to be the most important thing to them. What empty lives! What a damning indictment of the LDS Church!
    --SeattleUte

    He who drinks beer sleeps well. He who sleeps well cannot sin. He who does not sin goes to heaven. The logic is impeccable.
    --Charles W. Bamforth, Ph.D.

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