Priesthood healing blessings.... somewhat pointless, yes?

[byu71]

Yeah, if that is true it isn't counsel that people seem to follow. I have never understood the reasoning in any case. Jesus performed miracles in public, other miracles recorded in the scriptures happened out in the open. But in this era where we send missionaries to the four corners of the earth, have proclaiming the gospel as one of the missions of the church and in fact teach that miracles are a sign that follow the restoration, the Lord doesn't want anyone to know when those miracles actually occur?

I have always been impressed with Elder Oaks, probably because of his resume and how he handled himself at BYU.

He does say some puzzling things to me on occasion. Like when he said members should not question GA's, even if the member knows the GA is wrong.

Could some of these things he says just be due to his lawyer training and background. You know, don't talk until you find out what your attorney wants you to say.

[UtahDan]

I'm of the mind that publicity of such events would only lessen their impact. If you got 10 forwarded emails a day of people healed by Pres. Monson, would your own healing be of the same import? Would the expectation of a full restoration of health rise amongst Church members?

I'm glad that these experiences, for the most part, are kept private. It makes them more 'special' when heard or shared.

Do you feel the same way about people saying that certain experiences made them feel the spirit strongly? Do you think sharing those experiences cheapens their impact? Honest question.

[Moliere]

I'm of the mind that publicity of such events would only lessen their impact. If you got 10 forwarded emails a day of people healed by Pres. Monson, would your own healing be of the same import? Would the expectation of a full restoration of health rise amongst Church members?

I'm glad that these experiences, for the most part, are kept private. It makes them more 'special' when heard or shared.

I agree with SH on this. I'm making an assumption here, as we all are, but I don't think this means to not tell people about it. I would take this to mean that we don't publicized it or issue press releases. Spiritual experiences (including healings) can be very personal and are not things to be shared lightly. I had a healing blessing when I was 6 that I believe has helped me physically in my life, but I don't share it with coworkers, investigators, or on message boards.

[SloanHater]

Do you feel the same way about people saying that certain experiences made them feel the spirit strongly? Do you think sharing those experiences cheapens their impact? Honest question.

I do think sharing experiences 'cheapens' the impact. I had a great-uncle who rarely told of his WWII experiences. When he did, we hung on every word and they made a lasting impression.

I'm not sure I would feel the same way if I heard stories from him every time we visited or if I had read the same story in an email forwarded to me from a family member.

The value of the experience was conveyed to me because it had been kept personal.

[Solon]

These talks sometimes seem to indicate that God's will is similar to that of the Olympian Gods at times- fickle.

But everyone knows one story about someone in terminal condition who ends up recovering after a blessing. I've related before a story my dad told me coming from a truck driver that used to work for him. The driver wasn't especially active but still obviously had faith. His 3-5 year old daughter (I can't remember the exact age) had terminal liver cancer. Upon getting the diagnosis from a doctor, he proceeded to take his daughter over to THE church office building and was demanding that his daughter receive a blessing from any apostle or member of the first presidency. After refusing to leave, then Elder Hunter (I think this was the late 70s) came to meet with him and give his daughter a blessing.

The little girl recovered and now has something like five kids. The father swears that the blessing was a game changer. The whole story has a New Testament quality to it from the desperation of the father, the condition of the child, to the father's absolute faith that an apostle's blessing would heal his daughter. I believe the chemotherapy and radiation treatments continued, no transplant was needed. Another amazing thing about it was how the radiation to that part of the body didn't cause damage to the ovaries of a young girl.

I've gotta say, despite all of my cynicism I actually believe strongly in faith-healings. I don't know if it's a rational benefit for positive thinking, or if it's divine miracle, or what, but I've seen twice where the person's healing was downright miraculous.

One of them, the sick woman instantly stood up and walked just like at the revival meeting. It was totally crazy and pretty much unexpected. Although we do give "blessings" all the time, I think we suspect they won't really work, or - if they do - it won't be very dramatic. This was very dramatic. She stood up and was healthy. She left the room, showered up, and went about life normally. And she was definitely quite ill before the blessing. Not "in a coma" ill, but noticeably and obviously weak and ill.

I've never really seen anything like it.

One thing that was interesting, the blessing-speaker said "I command you to be healed" very forcefully. I wonder sometimes if people aren't forceful enough in their blessings. If it really is God's power, don't be such a wimp with it. Don't use it irresponsibly, but open up that firehose when you get a chance.

PS, would anyone who thinks I only post negative or critical stories please take note?

[cowboy]

Wow, I don't have time for this, but the topic is too important to pass. Here's my opinion for what it's worth.

There are two types of maladies: those that the Lord will heal, and those that He won't. Regarding the second type, there are many reasons that He won't intervene, and I'll save that for another time. Regarding the first, being healed requires that we 1) have faith, and 2) ask.

I believe it was ER in another thread who said that one purpose of a blessing is to understand God's will, and I ablsolutely agree. When we give or receive a blessing, we should try to understand what blessing is appropriate to request and bestow. We all have given or received blessings that contained promises that didn't come to pass, and the reasons were either a lack of faith, or a request/promise that did not come from God.

Jesus didn't command anyone to see who then remained blind, anyone to walk who remained crippled, or anyone to rise who remained dead. The reason was that He understood completely the will of the Father and the faith of those who asked. In other words, He only gave blessings that the Father was willing to bestow.

We are given the priesthood power to bless the lives of others, but also to learn to recognize the will of the Father and excercise our faith in Him. This is a process that takes more than a lifetime to perfect. As we exercise and have faith in the power of the priesthood, we will align our will with the will of the Father, and our faith in His existence will grow as will our relationship with Him. Hence, the answer is no, priesthood blessings are not pointless, quite the opposite, in fact.

Regarding keeping miracles private, I understood that comment differently than many of you. I understood it to mean that not all miracles are made manifest to us, but I did not understand it to mean that all miracles should be kept private. This made sense to me, as I've had a number of intensely spiritual experiences that I do not intend to share with just anyone.

[myboynoah]

Wow, I don't have time for this, but the topic is too important to pass. Here's my opinion for what it's worth.

There are two types of maladies: those that the Lord will heal, and those that He won't. Regarding the second type, there are many reasons that He won't intervene, and I'll save that for another time. Regarding the first, being healed requires that we 1) have faith, and 2) ask.

I believe it was ER in another thread who said that one purpose of a blessing is to understand God's will, and I ablsolutely agree. When we give or receive a blessing, we should try to understand what blessing is appropriate to request and bestow. We all have given or received blessings that contained promises that didn't come to pass, and the reasons were either a lack of faith, or a request/promise that did not come from God.

Jesus didn't command anyone to see who then remained blind, anyone to walk who remained crippled, or anyone to rise who remained dead. The reason was that He understood completely the will of the Father and the faith of those who asked. In other words, He only gave blessings that the Father was willing to bestow.

We are given the priesthood power to bless the lives of others, but also to learn to recognize the will of the Father and excercise our faith in Him. This is a process that takes more than a lifetime to perfect. As we exercise and have faith in the power of the priesthood, we will align our will with the will of the Father, and our faith in His existence will grow as will our relationship with Him. Hence, the answer is no, priesthood blessings are not pointless, quite the opposite, in fact.

Regarding keeping miracles private, I understood that comment differently than many of you. I understood it to mean that not all miracles are made manifest to us, but I did not understand it to mean that all miracles should be kept private. This made sense to me, as I've had a number of intensely spiritual experiences that I do not intend to share with just anyone.

Thank you Cowboy.

[Pheidippides]

Wow, I don't have time for this, but the topic is too important to pass. Here's my opinion for what it's worth.

There are two types of maladies: those that the Lord will heal, and those that He won't. Regarding the second type, there are many reasons that He won't intervene, and I'll save that for another time. Regarding the first, being healed requires that we 1) have faith, and 2) ask.

I believe it was ER in another thread who said that one purpose of a blessing is to understand God's will, and I ablsolutely agree. When we give or receive a blessing, we should try to understand what blessing is appropriate to request and bestow. We all have given or received blessings that contained promises that didn't come to pass, and the reasons were either a lack of faith, or a request/promise that did not come from God.

Jesus didn't command anyone to see who then remained blind, anyone to walk who remained crippled, or anyone to rise who remained dead. The reason was that He understood completely the will of the Father and the faith of those who asked. In other words, He only gave blessings that the Father was willing to bestow.

We are given the priesthood power to bless the lives of others, but also to learn to recognize the will of the Father and excercise our faith in Him. This is a process that takes more than a lifetime to perfect. As we exercise and have faith in the power of the priesthood, we will align our will with the will of the Father, and our faith in His existence will grow as will our relationship with Him. Hence, the answer is no, priesthood blessings are not pointless, quite the opposite, in fact.

Regarding keeping miracles private, I understood that comment differently than many of you. I understood it to mean that not all miracles are made manifest to us, but I did not understand it to mean that all miracles should be kept private. This made sense to me, as I've had a number of intensely spiritual experiences that I do not intend to share with just anyone.

I don't have much to add to this other than to say that there were two blessings I gave my daughter before she died. They were radically different: one was me hoping and praying for my will, and the other came after I recognized God's will. The first was educational for me and really made me appreciate Elder Oak's talk in many ways. The second was far more miraculous and is the most compelling reason I have for believing what I do about God and the hereafter.

[Portland Ute]

When I was in the MTC in 1994, we had a general authority visit. I honestly cannot remember who it was and I don't want to go dig out my mission journal to find out who it was.

Anyway, he spoke directly to the issue of giving blessings. He, in fact, instructed Elders that they had the Priesthood and that their blessings could be a very powerful tool. He stated quite emphatically that there is power in the words that we speak.

The general tone of it was in opposition to the tone of Elder Oaks talk.

He emphatically stated that the words DID matter and that with the faith of the blesser and receiver, the words would be carried out IF they were not in opposition to God's plan.

Oaks seems to suggest that the words mean little. The GA at the MTC was emphatic that the Priesthood had power and as such the "blesser" could command that power of Heaven.

If I remember or go look for the GA, I'll let you know. However, I will say that he is not the only person that I recall suggesting that the Priesthood can command the power of heaven.

[Portland Ute]

You know, that's an interesting comment because it did not make me think about how many people Jesus healed... but rather how many people that he possibly refused to heal: "Dear child, you have been [blind|crippled|deaf] since birth, but it is not My will that you shall be healed; despite your great faith. Go thou and be well." I wonder if that kind of thing happened? My guess is that it must have... given the modes of failure that Oaks has suggested.

Your point seems to assume some interesting things about Jesus Christ.

[jay santos]

Your point seems to assume some interesting things about Jesus Christ.

Yeah if I'm going to change the way I think based on the NT Jesus vs GC Oaks, I'll choose Jesus.

[ERCougar]

Learning to recognize the will of the Father - as important as that may be - is pointless with respect to performing Priesthood healing blessings. Look, Oaks basically gave us a Venn diagram for Priesthood healing blessings. Draw three circles; label them "(A) Receiver has faith to be healed", "(B) The Lord's will for the receiver to be healed", and "(C) The officiator's understanding of the Lord's will". To the extent that circles (A) and (B) overlap, healing occurs. Whether or not (C) overlaps with (A) and (B) is immaterial. And so it seems, the priesthood blessing is somewhat pointless. If you have faith to be healed, and it is the Lord's will... would not personal prayer suffice?

But what if what the officiator says in the blessing affects the faith of the person to be healed? I think this is very much an intended result of blessings. I don't think the woman actually had to touch Jesus' clothing to be healed but perhaps it was an important symbol to increase her faith. Similar things could be said about all of the healings. Concrete objects are very important anchors to our spiritual sides. Or does the water of the baptismal font physically wash away sins?

An interesting question is what is the benefit of praying for someone from afar, other than possibly affecting our actions or sensitivities towards that individual?

OK...now I really have to run....

[All-American]

If one purpose of giving a blessing is to understand God's will, then we should be seeking out more opportunities to perform these blessings. More opportunities == more understanding. (Perhaps weekly visits to the local area hospitals.) One of my BILs said this same thing on Sunday. I disagree. Priesthood healing blessings are a crap shoot IMHO, once in a while you'll pronounce a blessing and "get it right", the receiver is healed and their faith is affirmed. More often than not (in my limited experience), the Lord's will does not (for whatever reason) align itself with what was uttered and you end up with a big dark cloud over your head. "What happened?", you wonder.

Well, I can now take some comfort knowing that Oaks has confirmed that it doesn't matter what is said in the blessing anyway, so it seems pointless to go through the trouble of trying to figure out what the Lord's will is in each specific case. At best, you'll happen to "guess" correctly.




You know, that's an interesting comment because it did not make me think about how many people Jesus healed... but rather how many people that he possibly refused to heal: "Dear child, you have been [blind|crippled|deaf] since birth, but it is not My will that you shall be healed; despite your great faith. Go thou and be well." I wonder if that kind of thing happened? My guess is that it must have... given the modes of failure that Oaks has suggested.




Learning to recognize the will of the Father - as important as that may be - is pointless with respect to performing Priesthood healing blessings. Look, Oaks basically gave us a Venn diagram for Priesthood healing blessings. Draw three circles; label them "(A) Receiver has faith to be healed", "(B) The Lord's will for the receiver to be healed", and "(C) The officiator's understanding of the Lord's will". To the extent that circles (A) and (B) overlap, healing occurs. Whether or not (C) overlaps with (A) and (B) is immaterial. And so it seems, the priesthood blessing is somewhat pointless. If you have faith to be healed, and it is the Lord's will... would not personal prayer suffice?

cheers.

I think you are making a valid observation, but are being extreme in your conclusions.

If it's the Lord's will that you be healed, why bother with the blessing? Or, for that matter, the prayer? Why not just accept your fate? In fact, why bother praying for anything at all? Won't he just give it to us if he wants to, whether we ask or not?

Or, did God actually intend that the system be designed such that we have to ask?

If men are imperfect representatives of God as holders of the priesthood, why give men the priesthood at all? Why not just respect each individual's actions instead of putting people in positions of authority over each other? Why not just allow for direct access?

Or, did God actually intend that the system be designed such that we are to serve each other in official priesthood capacities?

[Mormon Red Death]

I've gotta say, despite all of my cynicism I actually believe strongly in faith-healings. I don't know if it's a rational benefit for positive thinking, or if it's divine miracle, or what, but I've seen twice where the person's healing was downright miraculous.

One of them, the sick woman instantly stood up and walked just like at the revival meeting. It was totally crazy and pretty much unexpected. Although we do give "blessings" all the time, I think we suspect they won't really work, or - if they do - it won't be very dramatic. This was very dramatic. She stood up and was healthy. She left the room, showered up, and went about life normally. And she was definitely quite ill before the blessing. Not "in a coma" ill, but noticeably and obviously weak and ill.

I've never really seen anything like it.

One thing that was interesting, the blessing-speaker said "I command you to be healed" very forcefully. I wonder sometimes if people aren't forceful enough in their blessings. If it really is God's power, don't be such a wimp with it. Don't use it irresponsibly, but open up that firehose when you get a chance.

PS, would anyone who thinks I only post negative or critical stories please take note?

I would like to add to this a personal story. On my mission a sister who only had a couple of weeks left asked me a for blessing as she was sick. I gave her the blessing and during the blessing I saw clearly in my mind a pink house and the name of the street. I also felt that there was a family ready to be baptized there. I told the sister in the blessing that there was family in the house I described that needed to be baptized.

After the blessing we got out the map of their area and the street was nowhere to be found. Puzzled we left. Later as I was on a split with kid from the ward (I was doing baptismal interviews at the church) I decided to look at the map in my area. When me and this priest got back to my area he said "come on elder lets go wait at a members house for your companion to come back". I told him no that we needed to visit a house. I went to the street and about half way down I saw the house that was in my head. We knocked the door and they were the golden family. If you could have seen the looks this young priest had for me when we left it was hilarious. As we were walking away he kept shaking his head in wonder. One of the coolest things that has ever happened to me.

[woot]

I've had at least two very strong experiences as a result of priesthood blessings, one of which I would swear that I was healed from some great mysterious illness, and if I were still a believing member one that I would wheel out occasionally to hold up my faith or to instill it in others. Looking back, I remember wanting so bad to believe in a miracle, and I was so early in my illness that for all I know it was indigestion, that I know recognize that there was nothing miraculous about it, and anyone believing my selective recounting of the events would be foolish to not treat it with the utmost skepticism.

It's the same as if a guy thinks he's seen a ghost, and tries hard to convince all his friends that ghosts therefore exist. He didn't notice the fan that moved the lampshade that made him think he saw a ghost, and he's certainly not going to include that point in his recounting, being unaware of it (or maybe even if he is aware of it). Any story retelling a spiritual experience must therefore be absolutely discounted.