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Thread: Man the lifeboats, it looks like the SS Utah Basketball has hit an iceberg.

  1. #211
    Senior Member Goatnapper'96's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wapiti View Post
    Mike Hall? It's too bad the JC feeder schools are all disappearing. UVU, Dixie, and Ricks are all gone.
    I missed Hall. Lyday and Hall are the two who came in and contributed right away. Luis Lemes did after a year and I guess Woodbury started as a JR but "contributed" might be a stretch.
    Do Your Damnedest In An Ostentatious Manner All The Time!
    -General George S. Patton

    I have visited Europe 3 times. Nice place to visit with the exception of France in 1965. What I really liked about Europe is how old it seemed. Very layback and non competitive. I felt in any kind of confrontation I would have the upper hand. Especially in France where the men lay their heads on the women's shoulders instead of vice versa.
    -byu'71

  2. #212

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    Quote Originally Posted by Goatnapper'96 View Post
    I think BYU's best defensive team will be with Collinsworth at the 4 and Winder at the 2.
    There will be better defenders at the 4, so I don't see this.

  3. #213
    Heartless Bastard Indy Coug's Avatar
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    BYU was on TV so rarely during the Keena Young years I never got much of an appreciation of how good he was.
    Everything in life is an approximation.

    http://twitter.com/CougarStats

  4. #214
    Senior Member Goatnapper'96's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    I'll give it a rest after this, but it seems like you are really confusing Kyle with his brother Chris (around the basket for trash?) even though I'm almost certain you are not. But Kyle's best offensive skill are not putbacks and trash. Seriously, people. This kid is a distributor who runs the offense. He'll replace Carlino in that primary position, moving Carlino to the 2 offensively if Rose knows what's best.
    I don't get the PG interest. Rose would not rest Jimmer for a minute Jimmer's SR year to put KyleC at the point. I am not confusing him for his brother I am recalling his offensive contributions the year he played at BYU and not Provo High.
    Do Your Damnedest In An Ostentatious Manner All The Time!
    -General George S. Patton

    I have visited Europe 3 times. Nice place to visit with the exception of France in 1965. What I really liked about Europe is how old it seemed. Very layback and non competitive. I felt in any kind of confrontation I would have the upper hand. Especially in France where the men lay their heads on the women's shoulders instead of vice versa.
    -byu'71

  5. #215
    Senior Member Goatnapper'96's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    There will be better defenders at the 4, so I don't see this.
    Who?
    Do Your Damnedest In An Ostentatious Manner All The Time!
    -General George S. Patton

    I have visited Europe 3 times. Nice place to visit with the exception of France in 1965. What I really liked about Europe is how old it seemed. Very layback and non competitive. I felt in any kind of confrontation I would have the upper hand. Especially in France where the men lay their heads on the women's shoulders instead of vice versa.
    -byu'71

  6. #216
    Senior Member Goatnapper'96's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Indy Coug View Post
    BYU was on TV so rarely during the Keena Young years I never got much of an appreciation of how good he was.
    It was really fun how much he improved each year. Travis Hansen was another that improved each year and of course Jimmer also seemed to make big steps each and every year as well.
    Do Your Damnedest In An Ostentatious Manner All The Time!
    -General George S. Patton

    I have visited Europe 3 times. Nice place to visit with the exception of France in 1965. What I really liked about Europe is how old it seemed. Very layback and non competitive. I felt in any kind of confrontation I would have the upper hand. Especially in France where the men lay their heads on the women's shoulders instead of vice versa.
    -byu'71

  7. #217

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    Quote Originally Posted by Goatnapper'96 View Post
    I don't get the PG interest. Rose would not rest Jimmer for a minute Jimmer's SR year to put KyleC at the point. I am not confusing him for his brother I am recalling his offensive contributions the year he played at BYU and not Provo High.
    Correct, as to Jommer. Jimmer is not walking through that door! KC is a better passer than Jimmer. He was the only guy on the team who could make a decent entry pass to the post (Emery was probably the worst.), OK, so you are not confusing him, but you are mis-remembering him.

    Sorry, I said I was done.

  8. #218

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    Quote Originally Posted by Goatnapper'96 View Post
    Who?
    Maybe any one of the actual post players

  9. #219

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    I'll give it a rest after this, but it seems like you are really confusing Kyle with his brother Chris (around the basket for trash?) even though I'm almost certain you are not. But Kyle's best offensive skill are not putbacks and trash. Seriously, people. This kid is a distributor who runs the offense. He'll replace Carlino in that primary position, moving Carlino to the 2 offensively if Rose knows what's best.
    He scored 5.8 ppg. He wasn't doing much of anything on offense other than scoring on fast breaks and put backs. Do you remember KC with the ball in his hands on offense, scoring or setting up his teammates? I don't. Maybe he has that potential, but I wouldn't expect it right away.

  10. #220
    Senior Member Goatnapper'96's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    Maybe any one of the actual post players
    Who is a post player returning next year? Harward? Austin and Sharp are both tall perimeter players. Mika is a true post player but he will be a center.

    But I think tall perimeter players are what Rose would prefer at the 4. I think Austin has the skillset to be a good 4 for BYU but for some reason he seems to not be any better today than he was this time a year ago. I think Sharp is just limited against physical teams because of his slight build. My memory was Collinsworth was much stronger and thicker.

    Further, if BYU is going to continue to play more zone defenses they need more athleticism from the bottom 3 defenders. Collinsworth is more able to go get a rebound than Austin and Sharp. I also think BYU will need another legit scorer on the court other than Haws and Carlino. I don't think it will be Mika, Austin or Sharp but I think Collinsworth will be more important to have on the court than Austin or Sharp. So I am hoping the legit scorer will come from JC and take a perimeter starting position and Collinsworth will move to the 4.
    Do Your Damnedest In An Ostentatious Manner All The Time!
    -General George S. Patton

    I have visited Europe 3 times. Nice place to visit with the exception of France in 1965. What I really liked about Europe is how old it seemed. Very layback and non competitive. I felt in any kind of confrontation I would have the upper hand. Especially in France where the men lay their heads on the women's shoulders instead of vice versa.
    -byu'71

  11. #221

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    Quote Originally Posted by jay santos View Post
    He scored 5.8 ppg. He wasn't doing much of anything on offense other than scoring on fast breaks and put backs. Do you remember KC with the ball in his hands on offense, scoring or setting up his teammates? I don't. Maybe he has that potential, but I wouldn't expect it right away.
    Yes, I do, as I said, he was about the only guy on the team that could throw a decent entry pass and he was a substantially better ball handler and passer than Emery. He was playing with upper classmen and rightfully deferred, (he was and still is raw, I'm sure). Jimmer and Jackson shot a lot more than anyone. Of course Jimmer dominated the ball, I'm not saying Collinsworth played PG that year. But he's not a post. He's not as tall as his brother.

    Graduating from Provo High School, Kyle had offers from Kansas, Oklahoma State, Arizona State, Utah, Marquette, Virginia, Stanford and USC to play for their basketball program.
    None of them were recruiting him as a post player.
    Last edited by Jacob; 01-28-2013 at 10:52 AM.

  12. #222

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    Quote Originally Posted by Surfah View Post
    This is exactly what I'd prefer. I think KC would be a better defender at the 3 as well. His length and quickness can help extend to the corner in the zone to close out and Haws can stay up top to try and score on run outs off the break.
    I have always seen him as a 3 (or a situational 4) in Roses system. Point forward!

  13. #223

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    You people have no vision!

    I will no longer continue this thread jack.

    I apologize to all Utes. This thread is supposed to be about how bad the Utes are. My bad.

  14. #224
    Senior Member Goatnapper'96's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    Yes, I do, as I said, he was about the only guy on the team that could throw a decent entry pass and he was a substantially better ball handler and passer than Emery. He was playing with upper classmen and rightfully deferred, (he was and still is raw, I'm sure). Jimmer and Jackson shot a lot more than anyone. Of course Jimmer dominated the ball, I'm not saying Collinsworth played PG that year. But he's not a post. He's not as tall as his brother.



    None of them were recruiting him as a post player.
    I don't think post entries will be a huge issue next year unless Mika has a head that is at least 8 inches from peak to chin.

    I think either Winder or Delgado are better perimeter shooters and both are decent on the ball defenders. I don't think either can penetrate as well as Kyle and neither are as good of athletes either. I think given the fact that BYU's post game, without very large improvements from Austin or Sharp, is likely to rely upon a freshman BYU is going to need all 3 perimeter players to be better shooters than Kyle. But I still think Kyle needs to be on the court.
    Do Your Damnedest In An Ostentatious Manner All The Time!
    -General George S. Patton

    I have visited Europe 3 times. Nice place to visit with the exception of France in 1965. What I really liked about Europe is how old it seemed. Very layback and non competitive. I felt in any kind of confrontation I would have the upper hand. Especially in France where the men lay their heads on the women's shoulders instead of vice versa.
    -byu'71

  15. #225

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    I have to give Jacob some kudos. We argued over whether KC would ever play point at BYU. I said no way, no how, never, HELL no would Rose ever do that. KC clearly practiced the point and did play at least a few minutes of backup point his frosh year. I actually was quite surprised, but I have to admit I was wrong on that. I still doubt he will ever play significant amount of 1 minutes his career, but I can at least acknowledge it's a possibility.

  16. #226
    Senior Member Goatnapper'96's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jay santos View Post
    I have to give Jacob some kudos. We argued over whether KC would ever play point at BYU. I said no way, no how, never, HELL no would Rose ever do that. KC clearly practiced the point and did play at least a few minutes of backup point his frosh year. I actually was quite surprised, but I have to admit I was wrong on that. I still doubt he will ever play significant amount of 1 minutes his career, but I can at least acknowledge it's a possibility.
    I think it is a possibility but I think the most minutes he will see at PG will be the year after Winder and Carlino graduate. I think for the next two years he will see the preponderance of his minutes at the 4 and 3.
    Do Your Damnedest In An Ostentatious Manner All The Time!
    -General George S. Patton

    I have visited Europe 3 times. Nice place to visit with the exception of France in 1965. What I really liked about Europe is how old it seemed. Very layback and non competitive. I felt in any kind of confrontation I would have the upper hand. Especially in France where the men lay their heads on the women's shoulders instead of vice versa.
    -byu'71

  17. #227

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    Quote Originally Posted by Goatnapper'96 View Post
    Who is a post player returning next year? Harward? Austin and Sharp are both tall perimeter players. Mika is a true post player but he will be a center.

    But I think tall perimeter players are what Rose would prefer at the 4. I think Austin has the skillset to be a good 4 for BYU but for some reason he seems to not be any better today than he was this time a year ago. I think Sharp is just limited against physical teams because of his slight build. My memory was Collinsworth was much stronger and thicker.

    Further, if BYU is going to continue to play more zone defenses they need more athleticism from the bottom 3 defenders. Collinsworth is more able to go get a rebound than Austin and Sharp. I also think BYU will need another legit scorer on the court other than Haws and Carlino. I don't think it will be Mika, Austin or Sharp but I think Collinsworth will be more important to have on the court than Austin or Sharp. So I am hoping the legit scorer will come from JC and take a perimeter starting position and Collinsworth will move to the 4.
    The only quibble I have is that I think Sharp is a fantastic rebounder especially on the offensive end. He is the best athlete on the team and his athleticism allows him to rebound out of his area which is a skill and ability that is not shared by anyone else on the team. That skill alone will continue to get Sharp a ton of minutes even when KC returns.
    Last edited by Flystripper; 01-28-2013 at 11:18 AM.

  18. #228
    Senior Member Goatnapper'96's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flystripper View Post
    The only quibble I have is that I think Sharp is a fantastic rebounder especially on the offensive end. He is the best athlete on the team and his athleticism allows him to rebound out of his area which is a skill and ability that is not shared by anyone else on the team. That skill alone will continue to get Sharp a ton of minutes even when KC returns.
    In a zone defense Kyle and Sharp on the bottom would be pretty good. But I still worry about how BYU is going to score much next year with the 5 players on the floor being Mika, Sharp, Kyle, Haws and Carlino.
    Do Your Damnedest In An Ostentatious Manner All The Time!
    -General George S. Patton

    I have visited Europe 3 times. Nice place to visit with the exception of France in 1965. What I really liked about Europe is how old it seemed. Very layback and non competitive. I felt in any kind of confrontation I would have the upper hand. Especially in France where the men lay their heads on the women's shoulders instead of vice versa.
    -byu'71

  19. #229

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    Did BYU hoops hit an iceberg I'm not aware of? Move along now ...

    Wapiti lamented the dearth of JUCO basketball options in this state. Fact is, even if those schools still played JUCO ball, they wouldn't be the feeders today that they were for D-1 programs a decade-plus ago. Prep schools have greatly reduced the impact JUCOs have on the D-1 game.

  20. #230

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    I've always enjoyed Henderson's energy on the floor. Unfortunately it hurt him off of the court.

    I remember when the Utes got a commitment from him, I Googled him up, and read about how he got kicked out of 3 basketball games as a senior in HS, on the team that his dad coached. I told a Ute buddy of mine that he's "(g)oing to be either very good, or he will flame out in spectacular fashion. Either way, it will be entertaining."

    I have no grudge against the kid. In a way I envy his zest and passion. I really hope that he has his personal life straightened out. I'd hate to see that talent and personality go to waste.

  21. #231
    Faith crisis consultant SeattleUte's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by U-Ute View Post

    I remember when the Utes got a commitment from him, I Googled him up, and read about how he got kicked out of 3 basketball games as a senior in HS, on the team that his dad coached. I told a Ute buddy of mine that he's "(g)oing to be either very good, or he will flame out in spectacular fashion. Either way, it will be entertaining."
    I remember reading a post from you that said this. I think it was here. Good call. SWISH! (I wasn't entertained, however, unless you count what he's doing now.)
    When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him.

    --Jonathan Swift

  22. #232

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    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    I've gotta hand it to the kid, he is colorful:

    Why is Brian Johnson moonlighting as security at Auburn basketball games?

  23. #233
    Huge Member BigPiney's Avatar
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    http://www.deseretnews.com/article/8...g-a-break.html

    Bachynski taking a break. We could use him down in Provo.

  24. #234
    Where's Wallace? Surfah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigPiney View Post
    http://www.deseretnews.com/article/8...g-a-break.html

    Bachynski taking a break. We could use him down in Provo.
    We could. We could use his brother more.

    Not good though for Utah.
    "Nobody listens to Turtle."
    -Turtle

  25. #235
    Receiver of Memory LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Surfah View Post
    We could. We could use his brother more.

    Not good though for Utah.
    He hasn't played well since the preseason. Something personal is probably up with him. I hope he gets it worked out.
    “There is a great deal of difference in believing something still, and believing it again.”
    ― W.H. Auden


    "God made the angels to show His splendour - as He made animals for innocence and plants for their simplicity. But men and women He made to serve Him wittily, in the tangle of their minds."
    -- Robert Bolt, A Man for All Seasons


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