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  • #76
    Originally posted by Paperback Writer View Post
    All is well and good until your son/brother/friend is abducted by North Korea.

    http://english.chosun.com/site/data/...051200352.html

    The 24-year-old exchange student [David Sneddon] in Beijing from Brigham Young University was last seen on Aug. 14, 2004 while traveling in China's Yunnan Province.

    "We're quite confident that David is alive, quite confident that whatever the mechanism that got him there he is in North Korea," he[his father] said.


    Full disclosure:
    I spent my teenage years growing up with David Sneddon's older siblings in Lincoln, NE. I hometaught the family for a stretch with my Dad. His father set me apart as a missionary. Our parents remain good friends.

    David Sneddon was a BYU student who was studying Chinese and pre-law (I think). He planned on entering a JD/MBA program like one of his older brothers. He was a RM; served in South Korea. He went to China during the summer of 2004 and enrolled in a program to better his Chinese language skills before his planned return to BYU to finish his undergraduate. He completed the program in Beijing and then did some sight seeing. He never made it home. And is now thought to have been abducted by North Korean agents.
    Did he tour Korea for a couple weeks or months before he was kidnapped? I was serving there at the time and we had a random American RM show up saying he was just visiting. My memory is shady but it looked a lot like him (but back then all White guys looked the same).

    Comment


    • #77
      Originally posted by kimchicoug View Post
      Did he tour Korea for a couple weeks or months before he was kidnapped? I was serving there at the time and we had a random American RM show up saying he was just visiting. My memory is shady but it looked a lot like him (but back then all White guys looked the same).
      He probably visited there; he was employed by a company owned by one of his older brothers based in Korea and Provo. I know he had a plane ticket from China to Korea for a meeting before he was to fly back to the states and take classes at BYU. He didn't get on the plane and that's when his parents knew something had happened. It's possible he would have visited Korea - the company was paying for his training in China.

      What happend is that he had finished his training in Bejing, I think he was also teaching English lessons as well. Decided to tour a little bit in China before catching his flight to Korea. David Sneddon was traveling with another RM and BYU student. The other guy was doing research on North Koreans either living in China or escaping North Korea - there is an underground railroad mostly run by Christian Chinese to assist North Koreans who escape. Anyway, this guy asks for a visa to visit North Korea to do more research. The Chinese don't grant the visa and notify him that he has like 5 days to leave China. So he flies back to the states. David then goes on as planned to Shangri-la/Yunnan province, but is now alone. Yunnan province is in SW China, far away from Bejing. It also borders Myanmar (Burma), Laos, and Vietnam and is one of the routes North Koreans use to flee North Korea (North Korea - cross the river to China - get to Yunnan province-cross over to Laos-immigrate to South Korea). He does some hiking in Shangri-la and is last seen at a Korean restaurant. His family now thinks David was detained and then turned over to North Korean agents. Sounds kind of crazy until one makes the connection that North Korea has admitted to abducting Japanese citizens to edcuate their spies. My understanding is that North Korea is so isolated they are unable to train their agents about Western ways so they abduct others to train them inside North Korea. I guess in order to pass as a South Korean, one needs some English skills and an understanding about how the rest of the world operates.

      Anyway, the US state department is not really helping much because there is no proof David is in North Korea and it's a problematic issue to bring up with a country who your negiotating nuclear armament with. Through back channels at the state department (LDS back channels) North Korea has been mentioned as his likely fate. Americans simply do not disapper in China, at least for very long. Some may get detained by China has always adhered to treaty requirments to disclose that information within something like four days. And they've always done so. Unless you happen to be a 23-year old American student with fluent Korean and Mandarian Chinese language skills that has managed to gain the attention of North Korean agents who are always in China to catch escaping North Koreans and those who assist them.
      “Not the victory but the action. Not the goal but the game. In the deed the glory.”
      "All things are measured against Nebraska." falafel

      Comment


      • #78
        Originally posted by Paperback Writer View Post
        He probably visited there; he was employed by a company owned by one of his older brothers based in Korea and Provo. I know he had a plane ticket from China to Korea for a meeting before he was to fly back to the states and take classes at BYU. He didn't get on the plane and that's when his parents knew something had happened. It's possible he would have visited Korea - the company was paying for his training in China.

        What happend is that he had finished his training in Bejing, I think he was also teaching English lessons as well. Decided to tour a little bit in China before catching his flight to Korea. David Sneddon was traveling with another RM and BYU student. The other guy was doing research on North Koreans either living in China or escaping North Korea - there is an underground railroad mostly run by Christian Chinese to assist North Koreans who escape. Anyway, this guy asks for a visa to visit North Korea to do more research. The Chinese don't grant the visa and notify him that he has like 5 days to leave China. So he flies back to the states. David then goes on as planned to Shangri-la/Yunnan province, but is now alone. Yunnan province is in SW China, far away from Bejing. It also borders Myanmar (Burma), Laos, and Vietnam and is one of the routes North Koreans use to flee North Korea (North Korea - cross the river to China - get to Yunnan province-cross over to Laos-immigrate to South Korea). He does some hiking in Shangri-la and is last seen at a Korean restaurant. His family now thinks David was detained and then turned over to North Korean agents. Sounds kind of crazy until one makes the connection that North Korea has admitted to abducting Japanese citizens to edcuate their spies. My understanding is that North Korea is so isolated they are unable to train their agents about Western ways so they abduct others to train them inside North Korea. I guess in order to pass as a South Korean, one needs some English skills and an understanding about how the rest of the world operates.

        Anyway, the US state department is not really helping much because there is no proof David is in North Korea and it's a problematic issue to bring up with a country who your negiotating nuclear armament with. Through back channels at the state department (LDS back channels) North Korea has been mentioned as his likely fate. Americans simply do not disapper in China, at least for very long. Some may get detained by China has always adhered to treaty requirments to disclose that information within something like four days. And they've always done so. Unless you happen to be a 23-year old American student with fluent Korean and Mandarian Chinese language skills that has managed to gain the attention of North Korean agents who are always in China to catch escaping North Koreans and those who assist them.
        Having just been to China and having a friend over, this hits home. This is heartbreaking. I don't understand why the Chinese would turn him over to North Korea. I know there is rampant corruption, especially on the provincial levels but I would think the Central government wouldn't sign off on it.
        My friend did want to go to some of the more remote places. We didn't. But he wanted to go see where the Uigars live near Afghanistan, but that probably wouldn't be smart.
        I asked If he has has ever run into any North Koreans and he said once. He was with South Korean friends, who could tell by the way they were speaking that they were from the North, but they couldn't understand them.
        I hope a change in regimes there gets your friend out and I don't care if they have to send Bill Clinton and Jimmy Carter over there.

        Comment


        • #79
          Originally posted by Paperback Writer View Post
          He probably visited there; he was employed by a company owned by one of his older brothers based in Korea and Provo. I know he had a plane ticket from China to Korea for a meeting before he was to fly back to the states and take classes at BYU. He didn't get on the plane and that's when his parents knew something had happened. It's possible he would have visited Korea - the company was paying for his training in China.

          What happend is that he had finished his training in Bejing, I think he was also teaching English lessons as well. Decided to tour a little bit in China before catching his flight to Korea. David Sneddon was traveling with another RM and BYU student. The other guy was doing research on North Koreans either living in China or escaping North Korea - there is an underground railroad mostly run by Christian Chinese to assist North Koreans who escape. Anyway, this guy asks for a visa to visit North Korea to do more research. The Chinese don't grant the visa and notify him that he has like 5 days to leave China. So he flies back to the states. David then goes on as planned to Shangri-la/Yunnan province, but is now alone. Yunnan province is in SW China, far away from Bejing. It also borders Myanmar (Burma), Laos, and Vietnam and is one of the routes North Koreans use to flee North Korea (North Korea - cross the river to China - get to Yunnan province-cross over to Laos-immigrate to South Korea). He does some hiking in Shangri-la and is last seen at a Korean restaurant. His family now thinks David was detained and then turned over to North Korean agents. Sounds kind of crazy until one makes the connection that North Korea has admitted to abducting Japanese citizens to edcuate their spies. My understanding is that North Korea is so isolated they are unable to train their agents about Western ways so they abduct others to train them inside North Korea. I guess in order to pass as a South Korean, one needs some English skills and an understanding about how the rest of the world operates.

          Anyway, the US state department is not really helping much because there is no proof David is in North Korea and it's a problematic issue to bring up with a country who your negiotating nuclear armament with. Through back channels at the state department (LDS back channels) North Korea has been mentioned as his likely fate. Americans simply do not disapper in China, at least for very long. Some may get detained by China has always adhered to treaty requirments to disclose that information within something like four days. And they've always done so. Unless you happen to be a 23-year old American student with fluent Korean and Mandarian Chinese language skills that has managed to gain the attention of North Korean agents who are always in China to catch escaping North Koreans and those who assist them.
          That is really heart-breaking. I hope they find him and, if it was him I saw, I completely floored. He was a really nice guy. My prayers go out to him and his family.

          Comment


          • #80
            Small world. I know the Sneddon family. That was a real tragedy, but it amazed me how they never gave up hope. They are absolutely convinced that he is still alive somewhere.
            "There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
            "It's no secret that the great American pastime is no longer baseball. Now it's sanctimony." -- Guy Periwinkle, The Nix.
            "Juilliardk N I ibuprofen Hyu I U unhurt u" - creekster

            Comment


            • #81
              Originally posted by frank ryan View Post
              Having just been to China and having a friend over, this hits home. This is heartbreaking. I don't understand why the Chinese would turn him over to North Korea. I know there is rampant corruption, especially on the provincial levels but I would think the Central government wouldn't sign off on it.
              My friend did want to go to some of the more remote places. We didn't. But he wanted to go see where the Uigars live near Afghanistan, but that probably wouldn't be smart.
              I asked If he has has ever run into any North Koreans and he said once. He was with South Korean friends, who could tell by the way they were speaking that they were from the North, but they couldn't understand them.
              I hope a change in regimes there gets your friend out and I don't care if they have to send Bill Clinton and Jimmy Carter over there.
              It's kind of scary how an American can end up in North Korea. That was until it was learned that Japanese were abducted in Japan by North Korea. So it was much easier to abduct an American student traveling alone in remote SW China. I think the theory is that David was detained by local authorities because he was suspected to be part of the Christian Chinese underground railroad. Especially since his traveling companion requested a visa to North Korea. Once the North Koreans interrogated David and found out he could speak Korean, Mandarian Chinese, and English he had value to them. The central government has been very helpful in many ways but this abduction occurred far away from central government in Bejing. What the Chinese haven't done is to actually use the political capital to get David's release. But that is a delicate diplomatic issue - admitting that a visiting American can get detained by local authorities and turned over to North Korea.

              Thanks for everyone's support. I know it means a great deal to the Sneddon family. For those interested, here's a few links

              webpage: http://www.helpfinddavid.com/

              Radio interview podcast:
              part 1: http://www.klin.com/topic/play_windo...udioId=5953313
              part 2: http://www.klin.com/topic/play_windo...udioId=5954566
              Last edited by Paperback Writer; 07-30-2012, 11:16 AM. Reason: Corrected part2 link
              “Not the victory but the action. Not the goal but the game. In the deed the glory.”
              "All things are measured against Nebraska." falafel

              Comment


              • #82
                It is hard for me to believe there are leaders and people like the North Koreans anywhere in the world.

                The son who is now in charge has in his biography he made 11 hole's in one his first time playing golf.

                While his people probably don't know a thing about golf, have they no sense of how idiotic those outside Korea see them as.

                Comment


                • #83
                  Kim Jong Il delivering gold from the grave.

                  North Korea's Om Yun Chol joined an exclusive group of weightlifters Sunday who have lifted three times their body weight in the clean and jerk — and in the process won the gold in the first upset of the weightlifting competition at the London Olympics ...
                  "How can any man possibly lift 168kg? I believe the great Kim Jong Il looked over me," Om was quoted as saying by the Olympic News Service ...
                  "I am very happy and give thanks to our Great Leader for giving me the strength to lift this weight," Om said. "I believe Kim Jong Il gave me the record and all my achievements. It is all because of him."

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    I watched a movie about the North Koreans kidnapping citizens from all over the world. Paperback Writer is correct- they are so isolated that they cannot get foreigners over there to develop the language programs for their spies. So they kidnap outsiders. The people stay kidnapped for years, and the NK state gives them spouses and a generous allowance. They live in relative luxury and can never go home unless they escape.

                    The state also kidnaps spouses for their kidnapped language trainers. They want anglo saxon children which they indoctrinate from childhood to believe in the great leader. Then they send the kids out as spies. The movie showed two strapping young caucasian boys (around 18 years old) who went on and on about the glorious republic and the glorious great leader.

                    I'll see if I can get a link to the movie. It was fascinating.

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Originally posted by YOhio View Post
                      It's one of the miracles he needs for sainthood.
                      Not that, sickos.

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Originally posted by Katy Lied View Post
                        I watched a movie about the North Koreans kidnapping citizens from all over the world. Paperback Writer is correct- they are so isolated that they cannot get foreigners over there to develop the language programs for their spies. So they kidnap outsiders. The people stay kidnapped for years, and the NK state gives them spouses and a generous allowance. They live in relative luxury and can never go home unless they escape.

                        The state also kidnaps spouses for their kidnapped language trainers. They want anglo saxon children which they indoctrinate from childhood to believe in the great leader. Then they send the kids out as spies. The movie showed two strapping young caucasian boys (around 18 years old) who went on and on about the glorious republic and the glorious great leader.

                        I'll see if I can get a link to the movie. It was fascinating.
                        What's the name of the movie? It sounds really interesting.
                        Not that, sickos.

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Originally posted by Katy Lied View Post
                          I watched a movie about the North Koreans kidnapping citizens from all over the world. Paperback Writer is correct- they are so isolated that they cannot get foreigners over there to develop the language programs for their spies. So they kidnap outsiders. The people stay kidnapped for years, and the NK state gives them spouses and a generous allowance. They live in relative luxury and can never go home unless they escape.

                          The state also kidnaps spouses for their kidnapped language trainers. They want anglo saxon children which they indoctrinate from childhood to believe in the great leader. Then they send the kids out as spies. The movie showed two strapping young caucasian boys (around 18 years old) who went on and on about the glorious republic and the glorious great leader.

                          I'll see if I can get a link to the movie. It was fascinating.
                          I think I saw that on PBS a few months ago, though it might have been different as I remember it focusing almost exclusively on people from Japan. Very fascinating. There were instances of North Koreans snatching people out for an evening stroll off the beach in Japan. Crazy stuff.
                          "In conclusion, let me give a shout-out to dirty sex. What a great thing it is" - Northwestcoug
                          "And you people wonder why you've had extermination orders issued against you." - landpoke
                          "Can't . . . let . . . foolish statements . . . by . . . BYU fans . . . go . . . unanswered . . . ." - LA Ute

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Originally posted by DU Ute View Post
                            I think I saw that on PBS a few months ago, though it might have been different as I remember it focusing almost exclusively on people from Japan. Very fascinating. There were instances of North Koreans snatching people out for an evening stroll off the beach in Japan. Crazy stuff.
                            I wonder how the NoKo's do it without the snatchers defecting.

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              Originally posted by YOhio View Post
                              I wonder how the NoKo's do it without the snatchers defecting.
                              They must be big golf fans.
                              "In conclusion, let me give a shout-out to dirty sex. What a great thing it is" - Northwestcoug
                              "And you people wonder why you've had extermination orders issued against you." - landpoke
                              "Can't . . . let . . . foolish statements . . . by . . . BYU fans . . . go . . . unanswered . . . ." - LA Ute

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Originally posted by YOhio View Post
                                I wonder how the NoKo's do it without the snatchers defecting.
                                If they defect, their family is either killed or sent to a gulag.
                                Part of it is based on academic grounds. Among major conferences, the Pac-10 is the best academically, largely because of Stanford, Cal and UCLA. “Colorado is on a par with Oregon,” he said. “Utah isn’t even in the picture.”

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