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Thread: Unusual sexual obsession in church

  1. #61
    𐐐𐐄𐐢𐐆𐐤𐐝 𐐓𐐅 𐐜 𐐢𐐃𐐡𐐔 Uncle Ted's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Fourth Nephite View Post
    Geez, what office do you work at?
    He works at a brokerage. They snort coke, look at porn, and then gamble using other people's money.
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  2. #62
    Receiver of Memory LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by edward777 View Post
    Can you show me something in the DSM that define "porn addiction" much less even any reference to it whatsoever in the manual?

    Porn addiction does not exist in the real world of psychology. It can fall under compulsive behaviors or "hypersexual disorder", like not being able to live without porn and winding up fired because you look at it at work, or you ignore your wife/husband in favor of porn (an actual problem in Japan)....

    I am not a fan of porn because I think it encourages behavior that is outside the bounds of married life and sex. However, like any other stimulation for the brain (food for example) it is natural for one to crave it and with the internet the availability is there all the time.
    Maybe we can just get by calling it a "porn problem." Would you agree that it is a big problem for many people, and they need help to solve, manage or overcome it? That's what it looks like to me, regardless of whether it has a diagnostic code.
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  3. #63

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    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    Maybe we can just get by calling it a "porn problem." Would you agree that it is a big problem for many people, and they need help to solve, manage or overcome it? That's what it looks like to me, regardless of whether it has a diagnostic code.
    There are not diagnostic codes for a lot of things. Porn addiction is something that is likely symptomatic of other problems. A lot of porn addicts register somewhere on the OCD spectrum and suffer from Anxiety.
    I'm off subject here but I speculate that one reason Mormons have such a problem with pornography has a lot to do our repressive culture.
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  4. #64
    Receiver of Memory LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by frank ryan View Post
    There are not diagnostic codes for a lot of things. Porn addiction is something that is likely symptomatic of other problems. A lot of porn addicts register somewhere on the OCD spectrum and suffer from Anxiety.
    I'm off subject here but I speculate that one reason Mormons have such a problem with pornography has a lot to do our repressive culture.
    Could well be. We could do a better job of figuring out how to have a spiritually enlightened view of sex without getting all hung up on it and making it a source of misplaced guilt. I think this is cultural more than theological.
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  5. #65

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    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    Could well be. We could do a better job of figuring out how to have a spiritually enlightened view of sex without getting all hung up on it and making it a source of misplaced guilt. I think this is cultural more than theological.
    I totally agree.
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  6. #66

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    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    Could well be. We could do a better job of figuring out how to have a spiritually enlightened view of sex without getting all hung up on it and making it a source of misplaced guilt. I think this is cultural more than theological.
    I believe that much of the guilt associated with solo moral transgressions comes from believing such misdeeds need to be confessed, and being too ashamed to admit them to the bishop. I'm probably in the minority, and I may be wrong, I don't think the bishop needs to be informed of any sexual misconduct that doesn't involve another person.

    In the annual morality lesson with the young men, I told them that confession was required if 1) they've committed a felony, or 2) they've committed a moral transgression with another person. I added that they should also talk to the bishop if they had a problem they were having difficulty overcoming or any time they were prompted to do so. The bishop was in the lesson, and I asked him if that were correct or if he had anything to add, and he said he agreed.

    I think that far too often, relatively minor moral transgressions eat at kids because they are too ashamed to confess, and then they check out altogether, committing far more serious offenses. For this reason, I'll teach my kids just what I taught the young men, and I'll be frank with them that porn and masturbation are things to be avoided, and also things that can be kept between them and the Lord unless they want to talk about it with their bishop. I'll also teach them to avoid anyone from Rockland, Idaho, because the people there have the sickest minds on the planet.

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    Receiver of Memory LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cowboy View Post
    I believe that much of the guilt associated with solo moral transgressions comes from believing such misdeeds need to be confessed, and being too ashamed to admit them to the bishop. I'm probably in the minority, and I may be wrong, I don't think the bishop needs to be informed of any sexual misconduct that doesn't involve another person.

    In the annual morality lesson with the young men, I told them that confession was required if 1) they've committed a felony, or 2) they've committed a moral transgression with another person. I added that they should also talk to the bishop if they had a problem they were having difficulty overcoming or any time they were prompted to do so. The bishop was in the lesson, and I asked him if that were correct or if he had anything to add, and he said he agreed.

    I think that far too often, relatively minor moral transgressions eat at kids because they are too ashamed to confess, and then they check out altogether, committing far more serious offenses. For this reason, I'll teach my kids just what I taught the young men, and I'll be frank with them that porn and masturbation are things to be avoided, and also things that can be kept between them and the Lord unless they want to talk about it with their bishop. I'll also teach them to avoid anyone from Rockland, Idaho, because the people there have the sickest minds on the planet.
    Totally agree. I won't even go near Rockland if I can help it.
    “There is a great deal of difference in believing something still, and believing it again.”
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    "God made the angels to show His splendour - as He made animals for innocence and plants for their simplicity. But men and women He made to serve Him wittily, in the tangle of their minds."
    -- Robert Bolt, A Man for All Seasons


    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
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  8. #68

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    Quote Originally Posted by edward777 View Post
    Can you show me something in the DSM that define "porn addiction" much less even any reference to it whatsoever in the manual?

    Porn addiction does not exist in the real world of psychology. It can fall under compulsive behaviors or "hypersexual disorder", like not being able to live without porn and winding up fired because you look at it at work, or you ignore your wife/husband in favor of porn (an actual problem in Japan).

    I personally cringe when people try to make a moral issue into a psychological issue.
    ding, ding.

    Technically speaking addiction is defined by tolerance and withdrawal; the evidence for these in relation to pornography use is virtually nada. It's got to the point where the LDS culture's obsession with immediately labeling such sexual behaviors as masturbation and pornography use as 'addictions' is bordering on silly, and actually says more about how that culture sees sexuality in general than anything else.

    for people that insist on calling it an addiction, I often ask them why it would be preferable for them to see it that way, and what it would mean to them if it weren't. In therapy anyway, that can often lead to some more productive conversations. I think in all the cases I've seen--hundreds at this point--I don't know that I've seen something where I'd consider using the word addiction more than once or twice. Too many guys coming in racked with shame because they just can't get over their 'addiction' of looking at porn once or twice a month. We need a paradigm overhaul.

  9. #69

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    Incidentally, I tend to believe that the bigger problems with high rates of porn consumption include impulse control, overwhelming shame and guilt, creation of unrealistic expectations for sexual intimacy in actual relationships, and of course the continued sexualizing and objectification of (mostly) females.

  10. #70
    Receiver of Memory LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OhioBlue View Post
    Incidentally, I tend to believe that the bigger problems with high rates of porn consumption include impulse control, overwhelming shame and guilt, creation of unrealistic expectations for sexual intimacy in actual relationships, and of course the continued sexualizing and objectification of (mostly) females.
    I've always been curious about this subject. It does seem to me that some men (maybe women too) have a tough time not using porn. I'm talking about the guys who seem almost compulsive about it, like a missionary who would sneak onto the computers in members' homes to access porn sites whenever he could. (I also knew a missionary, back in the day, who'd sneak cigarettes whenever he could.). If a guy doesn't want to use porn, but can't seem to stop himself from doing so multiple times a day, and it's causing him problems in his life, I understand why that might not be an addiction, but how does a psychotherapist view that behavior?

    To be clear: I think porn is a problem and disagree with those who think the church makes too big a deal about it, although I think we could do a much better job of helping members see why they should avoid porn. I'm just wondering what the accepted psychotherapeutic view is of what I'll just call problematic porn use.
    Last edited by LA Ute; 02-02-2013 at 12:21 PM.
    “There is a great deal of difference in believing something still, and believing it again.”
    ― W.H. Auden


    "God made the angels to show His splendour - as He made animals for innocence and plants for their simplicity. But men and women He made to serve Him wittily, in the tangle of their minds."
    -- Robert Bolt, A Man for All Seasons


    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

  11. #71

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    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    I've always been curious about this subject. It does seem to me that some men (maybe women too) have a tough time not using porn. I'm talking about the guys who seem almost compulsive about it, like a missionary who would sneak onto the computers in members' homes to access porn sites whenever he could. (I also knew a missionary, back in the day, who'd sneak cigarettes whenever he could.). If a guy doesn't want to use porn, but can't seem to stop himself from doing so multiple times a day, and it's causing him problems in his life, I understand why that might not be an addiction, but how does a psychotherapist view that behavior?

    To be clear: I think porn is a problem and disagree with those who think the church makes too big a deal about it, although I think we could do a much better job of helping members see why they should avoid porn. I'm just wondering what the accepted psychotherapeutic view is of what I'll just call problematic porn use.
    I already said that it is only a problem in psychology if it is so pervasive in one's life that you might look at it at work and get fired or avoid real intimacy. Otherwise all this talk of porn addiction would be seen from a psychological perspective as silly and maybe more as evidence the so-called victim spouse has problems with intimacy issues or sexual repression.

    of course when I have pointed this out on another LDS forum some of the members then said that most psychologists are probably closet porn addicts so we should not listen to them. However, if you are going to use the terminology of psychology then shouldn't you give some substance to what the profession that came up with those terms believes about their use?

  12. #72

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    One wonders what would happen to all this talk of porn addiction in LDS circles if women today underwent the "medical" procedure they did in the 1800s to cure "hysteria." Perhaps after a few trips to the midwife they would be more relaxed,

    In case you don't know how this was treated just look up "Treatment of hysteria." Strange that even though this procedure was often performed by female practitioners it was not seen as an act of lesbianism.

  13. #73
    Senior Member Clark Addison's Avatar
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    I opened up my phone's Internet history earlier today to find a page I had looked at earlier. When I opened the history, one of the first things I noticed was a like near the top that said:

    "Unusual sexual obsession". The "in the church" part was truncated. So things could get interesting if my wife glances at my history.

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