John Dehlin is thinking about bringing Mormon Stories back

[creekster]

hmm ok, but this started with.

NWC saying



and you saying:


There's nothing that NWC was not right about there.

Ok.

[Northwestcoug]

When? When he said he was a follower while doing the podcasts? Or when he took a break from the church but refused to withdraw his membership? Or did he believe it when his wife threatened to leave him and he returned to activity? Or perhaps it was when he attended the church court while surreptitiously recording it? He's been all over the place for along time and from afar it looks like he was possibly doing this to make sure he kept the donations flowing from as many people as possible. I think you would see it exactly that way if his final position didn't delight you.

Whoa, you know more about his history than what I would have expected. You sure you weren't one of the 'few' who were taken in by his antics?

So if there are, say, 30,000, and only 5% are of the sort I am talking about, that's like a small stake. Moreover, there is no bright line, it is a sliding scale of dehlin influence. The point as I understand it, is that any influence from such a charlatan is unfortunate especially given that the people who are most susceptible to his influence are perhaps those who might most benefit from the church community.

I would peg the number who donated money/attended conferences/helped with podcasts, then became disillusioned with Dehlin at less than 5%. I am talking about the Kate Kelly and Rosebud-type people. If you relax those criteria to others who placed him on a pedestal but didn't give money or support, then yeah 5 or more percent doesn't seem far-fetched.

[creekster]

Whoa, you know more about his history than what I would have expected. You sure you weren't one of the 'few' who were taken in by his antics?



.

That's funny. Almost everything I learned about Dehlin I learned here.

[creekster]

Man, we are all sooooo bored.

I'm on the road and just finished a depo. Nothing like a few snarky posts to unwind.

[Northwestcoug]

I don't know how many people left because of Dehlin. It's not thousands, and likely not hundreds, but I believe it's more than a handful. The problem as I see it wasn't the information, but the way it was presented. I may be wrong, but it always felt like he was presenting it in a negative light under the auspices of neutrality, if that makes sense. I know a handful of people personally who began listening to MoStories and were out within a few years. Alternatively, I've introduced much of the same information Dehlin discussed to a number of people, explained why I still believed this was God's church regardless of the information, and it did not seem to raise any huge concerns. I understand my experiences are all anecdotal, but they are the only data points I have to base my opinion on. I could be wrong.

I think we are talking about different things. I was referring to those who idolized him to the point of supporting and joining whatever communities he started, then became disillusioned to the point of actively attacking him online.

I have no doubt that Dehlin has indirectly led quite a few people out of the church. Look at me; he certainly wasn't the main instigator of my exodus, but his podcasts certainly played a part. And yes, I also agree that there was nothing 'neutral' about his presentations. I think many times he was disingenuous, but I also think he was at some point honestly trying to stay in the church. He's a complicated narcissist.

[hostile]

He's like a pimple on your butt. You usually just ignore it. But if someone asks and you do mention it, you admit it's a pain in the ass.

MODS!!!

[creekster]

MODS!!!

I apologize.

[Topper]

I think we are talking about different things. I was referring to those who idolized him to the point of supporting and joining whatever communities he started, then became disillusioned to the point of actively attacking him online.

I have no doubt that Dehlin has indirectly led quite a few people out of the church. Look at me; he certainly wasn't the main instigator of my exodus, but his podcasts certainly played a part. And yes, I also agree that there was nothing 'neutral' about his presentations. I think many times he was disingenuous, but I also think he was at some point honestly trying to stay in the church. He's a complicated narcissist.

People idolized him? Everything I know about Dehlin, I learned here. He seemed like a very dull and uninteresting person.

A candid question, did you truly spend time listening to podcasts?

[falafel]

People idolized him? Everything I know about Dehlin, I learned here. He seemed like a very dull and uninteresting person.

A candid question, did you truly spend time listening to podcasts?

Are you serious? Have you never listened to a podcast before?

[jay santos]

People idolized him? Everything I know about Dehlin, I learned here. He seemed like a very dull and uninteresting person.

A candid question, did you truly spend time listening to podcasts?

I've listened to a lot of them. Even if you don't view issues like Dehlin does, he's had some very interesting interviews over the years. Richard Bushman, Brent Metcalfe, D Michael Quinn, Adam Miller, Terryl Givens, Greg Prince, Grant Palmer, Daymon Smith, Hans Mattson, Jeremy Runnels, Tyler Glenn, etc.

[Green Monstah]

I love how we mock the idea of Apostles taking 7 figure payments but claim Dehlin is selling his soul for 82k per year and 2 cents per download.

Dehlin is not a bright dude. He's indecisive and dull. His podcasts are good if the guest is decent.

Favorite Dehlinism came a few weeks back when he asked a guest if there was any relation between Elder Cristoffel Golden and J. golden Kimball. You can't make that shit up.

[ERCougar]

Lol.

My experience with both would put Kate Kelly on a much nuttier level than JD, but I suppose it's much more appealing to jump into her camp this week.

I have no idea what's behind the current iteration of the drama, but I remember when this came up last year, Kristy Money was a very reluctant participant in Kate's cause. Reading her statement right now, she seems a little upset, but I still get the feeling Kate is taking her post and running with it. Kate ought to trust these women to fight their own battles, it seems to me.

Of all the figures involved here, I probably know Gina Colvin the best, and I consider her a good friend. Gina is not at all a shrinking violet, and is not the type to be silent about sexist or unfair treatment, contract or not. Also, she's a university professor and couldn't give two craps about her financial compensation through OSF, so I have a hard time believing some unfair contract is keeping her silent.

As for JD, I don't know him well, nor do I care about the drama too much. I've had a few limited personal interactions and have always come away impressed at his sincerity, believe it or not. I guess he could be just that good, but again, based on my personal experiences with several of the parties speaking up here, I'm more inclined to his side than theirs. I haven't listened to a podcast in a long time, but I have listened to my share. To blame him for people leaving the church, or implying he led them out, is very funny to me, but that's another discussion. To judge all people who have been influenced by him to be similar at all to the vocal minority of hero worshipers on his page is an extra funny leap otherwise smart people seem to be making.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Lol.

My experience with both would put Kate Kelly on a much nuttier level than JD, but I suppose it's much more appealing to jump into her camp this week.

I have no idea what's behind the current iteration of the drama, but I remember when this came up last year, Kristy Money was a very reluctant participant in Kate's cause. Reading her statement right now, she seems a little upset, but I still get the feeling Kate is taking her post and running with it. Kate ought to trust these women to fight their own battles, it seems to me.

Of all the figures involved here, I probably know Gina Colvin the best, and I consider her a good friend. Gina is not at all a shrinking violet, and is not the type to be silent about sexist or unfair treatment, contract or not. Also, she's a university professor and couldn't give two craps about her financial compensation through OSF, so I have a hard time believing some unfair contract is keeping her silent.

As for JD, I don't know him well, nor do I care about the drama too much. I've had a few limited personal interactions and have always come away impressed at his sincerity, believe it or not. I guess he could be just that good, but again, based on my personal experiences with several of the parties speaking up here, I'm more inclined to his side than theirs. I haven't listened to a podcast in a long time, but I have listened to my share. To blame him for people leaving the church, or implying he led them out, is very funny to me, but that's another discussion. To judge all people who have been influenced by him to be similar at all to the vocal minority of hero worshipers on his page is an extra funny leap otherwise smart people seem to be making.

So I take it you haven't been violently raped by John Dehlin?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ERCougar]

So I take it you haven't been violently raped by John Dehlin?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

lol.
I never take a drink from him, that's for sure.

[ERCougar]

Just out of curiosity, I went to Gina Colvin's fb page to see what she was saying. Here it is, if you care:

Because people have asked:
My podcast downloads are really good but my donations don't reflect that. I think it's on the button to assume that, that is because women's work is often seen as voluntary and monetarily devalued. But the OSF currently pay me much more than I bring in, in donations and have acknowledged that gender pay gap in their compensation structure. I have personally been treated fairly and honestly but acknowledge that no one person or organisation is perfect.
As to the current issue - I have one thing to say. Where I come from contract related matters are private issues between private parties and should never be discussed publically. If the matter is egregious enough then the matter should be sorted out honourably or through legal channels and not in a court of social media, uninformed public opinion or mud-slinging.
I'll be deleting or ignoring any comment that asks me to take sides, explain my gender politics or asks me for details.

Since it seems like this matters, Gina remains a mostly active, even if often critical, member of the Church. She also is a person I know quite well and for whom I have a lot of respect.