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  • Originally posted by SteelBlue View Post
    This link came across my Facebook feed yesterday. Not a MoSto guy but these letters are fascinating, and in the end pretty disturbing. I had never heard of Dr. Lowry Nelson but I have a lot of respect for him after reading these letters. Please note: this link takes you to photos of several letters from a collection at USU. They are presented without commentary.

    http://mormonstories.wpengine.com/ot...y_Exchange.pdf
    That was an interesting read. Thanks for posting.

    Comment


    • Yes thank you that was interesting. I was surprised that someone who was clearly well informed wasnt aware in 1947 of an official doctrine or position of the church about black participation. I know too little about the history of the priesthood ban.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Omaha 680 View Post
        Yes thank you that was interesting. I was surprised that someone who was clearly well informed wasnt aware in 1947 of an official doctrine or position of the church about black participation. I know too little about the history of the priesthood ban.
        I took that he understood it was the position of the church but he recoiled at the idea that it was settled doctrine. It almost sounds like he was doing an early draft of the current church essay on the topic.
        PLesa excuse the tpyos.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by creekster View Post
          I took that he understood it was the position of the church but he recoiled at the idea that it was settled doctrine. It almost sounds like he was doing an early draft of the current church essay on the topic.
          That’s how I read it as well. I interesting that it was still doctrine in 1947 and not policy. I guess it didn’t change to a policy until DoMs term as president. Also interesting to see the prophet make doctrinal claims (privileges here depended on our faithfulness in the preearth life) that were outright rebuked recently (as well as in 1978) by the church.
          "Discipleship is not a spectator sport. We cannot expect to experience the blessing of faith by standing inactive on the sidelines any more than we can experience the benefits of health by sitting on a sofa watching sporting events on television and giving advice to the athletes. And yet for some, “spectator discipleship” is a preferred if not primary way of worshipping." -Pres. Uchtdorf

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Moliere View Post
            That’s how I read it as well. I interesting that it was still doctrine in 1947 and not policy. I guess it didn’t change to a policy until DoMs term as president. Also interesting to see the prophet make doctrinal claims (privileges here depended on our faithfulness in the preearth life) that were outright rebuked recently (as well as in 1978) by the church.
            Makes you wonder what the church will look like when our grand kids will be our age. The church is a glacier... but it does move... and melts a little over time.

            When poet puts pen to paper imagination breathes life, finding hearth and home.
            -Mid Summer's Night Dream

            Comment


            • I hadnt heard of that letter before. how does one read that and conclude anything other than the church was racist, and either god is racist or the church isnt directed by god?

              I dont get it.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Maximus View Post
                I hadnt heard of that letter before. how does one read that and conclude anything other than the church was racist, and either god is racist or the church isnt directed by god?

                I dont get it.
                They don't. The Church was racist.

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                • guys you just don’t get it. this is a letter signed by the first presidency explicitly in their capacity as such, but they were speaking as men! not as divinely called and set apart mouthpieces of god. duh!
                  Te Occidere Possunt Sed Te Edere Non Possunt Nefas Est.

                  Comment


                  • Oh boy. Such nuance.
                    "There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
                    "It's no secret that the great American pastime is no longer baseball. Now it's sanctimony." -- Guy Periwinkle, The Nix.
                    "Juilliardk N I ibuprofen Hyu I U unhurt u" - creekster

                    Comment


                    • There was a case very similar to this described in the DOM bio by Greg Prince. Back in the 50's there was a MP in the Caribbean (DR?) who wrote to SLC and said that they had been converting and ordaining lots of black converts but someone told him that we don't ordain blacks and he had never heard of such a thing and couldn't believe it so he wrote to church HQ to debunk it. The FP wrote back and told him to knock it off. Curse of Cain, yada yada. The really interesting thing to me was that a guy could be a MP and not know about it. It goes to show that the church was mainly a regional organization at the time in a lilly white part of America so it didn't become a widely known or discussed thing until the church ramped up missionary efforts and until the civil rights movement.
                      "There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
                      "It's no secret that the great American pastime is no longer baseball. Now it's sanctimony." -- Guy Periwinkle, The Nix.
                      "Juilliardk N I ibuprofen Hyu I U unhurt u" - creekster

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by New Mexican Disaster View Post
                        They don't. The Church was racist.
                        Yep. By the very definition of the word, the church was racist.

                        Originally posted by old_gregg View Post
                        guys you just don’t get it. this is a letter signed by the first presidency explicitly in their capacity as such, but they were speaking as men! not as divinely called and set apart mouthpieces of god. duh!
                        I think the correct apologetic take would be to say this was a letter directed to a specific person and not the church as a whole.
                        "Discipleship is not a spectator sport. We cannot expect to experience the blessing of faith by standing inactive on the sidelines any more than we can experience the benefits of health by sitting on a sofa watching sporting events on television and giving advice to the athletes. And yet for some, “spectator discipleship” is a preferred if not primary way of worshipping." -Pres. Uchtdorf

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by New Mexican Disaster View Post
                          They don't. The Church was racist.
                          i think his question was how does one conclude they aren't racist AND god is racist or the church isn't directed by god. that the church was/is racist is obvious, but then, according to maximus, you have to choose one of the other two options listed.
                          I'm like LeBron James.
                          -mpfunk

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by smokymountainrain View Post
                            i think his question was how does one conclude they aren't racist AND god is racist or the church isn't directed by god. that the church was/is racist is obvious, but then, according to maximus, you have to choose one of the other two options listed.
                            I think a true believer should just point out that the OT, NT, D&C are full of God’s followers, including the Prophets, messing up big time and going against God’s will.

                            Clearly the policy that was in fact “doctrine” was racist and wrong and a horrible mistake but I don’t see why a true believer has to conclude that the Church isn’t led by God. God works with and through extremely fallible screw-ups.

                            Right now God is working through homophobic leaders.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by CardiacCoug View Post
                              I think a true believer should just point out that the OT, NT, D&C are full of God’s followers, including the Prophets, messing up big time and going against God’s will.

                              Clearly the policy that was in fact “doctrine” was racist and wrong and a horrible mistake but I don’t see why a true believer has to conclude that the Church isn’t led by God. God works with and through extremely fallible screw-ups.

                              Right now God is working through homophobic leaders.
                              i mean, if they are ignoring him, simply disobeying him or not including him in their decisions, i think it would be fair to conclude the church isn't being directed or led by him. rather its being led by them.

                              (edit) i now see you were likely being facetious. i can be pretty dumb at times.
                              I'm like LeBron James.
                              -mpfunk

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by clackamascoug View Post
                                Makes you wonder what the church will look like when our grand kids will be our age. The church is a glacier... but it does move... and melts a little over time.
                                One answer to this is too obvious. Eventually all married people will be treated the same in the eyes of the Church regardless of whether they are married to a person of the same gender or opposite gender.

                                There will be increasing social pressure and perhaps political pressure and then there will be a revelation.

                                Comment

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