Originally posted by SteelBlue
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Yes thank you that was interesting. I was surprised that someone who was clearly well informed wasnt aware in 1947 of an official doctrine or position of the church about black participation. I know too little about the history of the priesthood ban.
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Originally posted by Omaha 680 View PostYes thank you that was interesting. I was surprised that someone who was clearly well informed wasnt aware in 1947 of an official doctrine or position of the church about black participation. I know too little about the history of the priesthood ban.PLesa excuse the tpyos.
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Originally posted by creekster View PostI took that he understood it was the position of the church but he recoiled at the idea that it was settled doctrine. It almost sounds like he was doing an early draft of the current church essay on the topic."Discipleship is not a spectator sport. We cannot expect to experience the blessing of faith by standing inactive on the sidelines any more than we can experience the benefits of health by sitting on a sofa watching sporting events on television and giving advice to the athletes. And yet for some, “spectator discipleship” is a preferred if not primary way of worshipping." -Pres. Uchtdorf
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Originally posted by Moliere View PostThat’s how I read it as well. I interesting that it was still doctrine in 1947 and not policy. I guess it didn’t change to a policy until DoMs term as president. Also interesting to see the prophet make doctrinal claims (privileges here depended on our faithfulness in the preearth life) that were outright rebuked recently (as well as in 1978) by the church.
When poet puts pen to paper imagination breathes life, finding hearth and home.
-Mid Summer's Night Dream
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guys you just don’t get it. this is a letter signed by the first presidency explicitly in their capacity as such, but they were speaking as men! not as divinely called and set apart mouthpieces of god. duh!Te Occidere Possunt Sed Te Edere Non Possunt Nefas Est.
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Oh boy. Such nuance."There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
"It's no secret that the great American pastime is no longer baseball. Now it's sanctimony." -- Guy Periwinkle, The Nix.
"Juilliardk N I ibuprofen Hyu I U unhurt u" - creekster
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There was a case very similar to this described in the DOM bio by Greg Prince. Back in the 50's there was a MP in the Caribbean (DR?) who wrote to SLC and said that they had been converting and ordaining lots of black converts but someone told him that we don't ordain blacks and he had never heard of such a thing and couldn't believe it so he wrote to church HQ to debunk it. The FP wrote back and told him to knock it off. Curse of Cain, yada yada. The really interesting thing to me was that a guy could be a MP and not know about it. It goes to show that the church was mainly a regional organization at the time in a lilly white part of America so it didn't become a widely known or discussed thing until the church ramped up missionary efforts and until the civil rights movement."There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
"It's no secret that the great American pastime is no longer baseball. Now it's sanctimony." -- Guy Periwinkle, The Nix.
"Juilliardk N I ibuprofen Hyu I U unhurt u" - creekster
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Originally posted by New Mexican Disaster View PostThey don't. The Church was racist.
Originally posted by old_gregg View Postguys you just don’t get it. this is a letter signed by the first presidency explicitly in their capacity as such, but they were speaking as men! not as divinely called and set apart mouthpieces of god. duh!"Discipleship is not a spectator sport. We cannot expect to experience the blessing of faith by standing inactive on the sidelines any more than we can experience the benefits of health by sitting on a sofa watching sporting events on television and giving advice to the athletes. And yet for some, “spectator discipleship” is a preferred if not primary way of worshipping." -Pres. Uchtdorf
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Originally posted by New Mexican Disaster View PostThey don't. The Church was racist.I'm like LeBron James.
-mpfunk
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Originally posted by smokymountainrain View Posti think his question was how does one conclude they aren't racist AND god is racist or the church isn't directed by god. that the church was/is racist is obvious, but then, according to maximus, you have to choose one of the other two options listed.
Clearly the policy that was in fact “doctrine” was racist and wrong and a horrible mistake but I don’t see why a true believer has to conclude that the Church isn’t led by God. God works with and through extremely fallible screw-ups.
Right now God is working through homophobic leaders.
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Originally posted by CardiacCoug View PostI think a true believer should just point out that the OT, NT, D&C are full of God’s followers, including the Prophets, messing up big time and going against God’s will.
Clearly the policy that was in fact “doctrine” was racist and wrong and a horrible mistake but I don’t see why a true believer has to conclude that the Church isn’t led by God. God works with and through extremely fallible screw-ups.
Right now God is working through homophobic leaders.
(edit) i now see you were likely being facetious. i can be pretty dumb at times.I'm like LeBron James.
-mpfunk
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Originally posted by clackamascoug View PostMakes you wonder what the church will look like when our grand kids will be our age. The church is a glacier... but it does move... and melts a little over time.
There will be increasing social pressure and perhaps political pressure and then there will be a revelation.
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