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Thread: John Dehlin is thinking about bringing Mormon Stories back

  1. #541

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    Quote Originally Posted by mpfunk View Post
    I think it would be a good idea to have Utah be a two party recording state. I stand with the LDS church (on two party recording).
    What is the argument on this? I see people freaking out over the fact that it could stop battered wives from recording abuse, but then I saw language that said there was exceptions in cases like that.

  2. #542
    Senior Member Eddie's Avatar
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    When I did child abuse investigations, there were times that I recorded things without necessarily telling people I was recording.

    Once I had an "alleged" perpetrator call me on the phone not long after I'd interviewed the victim. I was able to speak with him through the handset while having the conversation go onto the speaker of the phone and set my little hand recorder to record the conversation. He ended up confessing to the sexual abuse the child had reported, and I was able to use the recording in court - as well as pass it along for the police and county attorney to use in his prosecution. And that's only one time that I hit the record button during a conversation without stopping it to tell the other person I was going to record it.

    I can see why there are instances that you'd want the person being recorded to have knowledge that they are being recorded. But I'm glad I didn't have to worry about this guy clamming up because I had to stop the conversation and tell him I was going to record him.

    Are there exceptions to this? Like can the police not secretly record conversations with people without either a warrant or notifying the other person being recorded?

  3. #543

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    I have nothing substantive to add to this conversation, but I just want to say that I hope nobody ever posts another picture in this thread so we always have this American Gothic image of Mr and Mrs Dehlin popping up on Tapatalk.
    Prepare to put mustard on those words, for you will soon be consuming them, along with this slice of humble pie that comes direct from the oven of shame set at gas mark “egg on your face”! -- Moss

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  4. #544
    Senior Member myboynoah's Avatar
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    These people are real assholes. The biggest objection is that they won't be able to legally record interviews with Mormon ecclesiastical leaders? Seriously?
    Give 'em Hell, Cougars!!!

    For all this His anger is not turned away, but His hand is stretched out still.

    Not long ago an obituary appeared in the Salt Lake Tribune that said the recently departed had "died doing what he enjoyed most—watching BYU lose."

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    Maybe we can the thread did as I don’t see anything of value that Dehlin adds.
    "Guitar groups are on their way out, Mr Epstein."

    Upon rejecting the Beatles, Dick Rowe told Brian Epstein of the January 1, 1962 audition for Decca, which signed Brian Poole and the Tremeloes instead.

  6. #546

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    Quote Originally Posted by myboynoah View Post
    These people are real assholes. The biggest objection is that they won't be able to legally record interviews with Mormon ecclesiastical leaders? Seriously?
    I agree, but then on the flip side it appears that the Church is equally invested in the issue for the opposite reason. I'm hoping there's more to the story.

  7. #547
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    Quote Originally Posted by jay santos View Post
    I agree, but then on the flip side it appears that the Church is equally invested in the issue for the opposite reason. I'm hoping there's more to the story.
    I don't see why it is such a big thing for local Church leaders to be notified if their confidential conversations are going to be recorded. Am I missing something?
    Give 'em Hell, Cougars!!!

    For all this His anger is not turned away, but His hand is stretched out still.

    Not long ago an obituary appeared in the Salt Lake Tribune that said the recently departed had "died doing what he enjoyed most—watching BYU lose."

  8. #548

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    Quote Originally Posted by myboynoah View Post
    I don't see why it is such a big thing for local Church leaders to be notified if their confidential conversations are going to be recorded. Am I missing something?
    Totally agree. And I haven't seen any of these recordings that I didn't think was totally douchey. But. A law like this seems to have far reaching effects that go way beyond what seems like a very narrow scope of protecting a bishop's interview from being recorded. So it seems small minded of both the Church and for Church opponents to be invested in this law. But I could be misunderstanding something here. And I'm don't know if it's factual that the Church really is pushing this or if it's yet another publicity gimmick on the Exmo side of things.

  9. #549
    Philosopher of Men Sleeping in EQ's Avatar
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    This whole story has been rather lean on facts.
    We all trust our own unorthodoxies.

  10. #550
    Senior Member myboynoah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jay santos View Post
    Totally agree. And I haven't seen any of these recordings that I didn't think was totally douchey. But. A law like this seems to have far reaching effects that go way beyond what seems like a very narrow scope of protecting a bishop's interview from being recorded. So it seems small minded of both the Church and for Church opponents to be invested in this law. But I could be misunderstanding something here. And I'm don't know if it's factual that the Church really is pushing this or if it's yet another publicity gimmick on the Exmo side of things.
    Nothing happens in Utah without The Church pushing it!
    Give 'em Hell, Cougars!!!

    For all this His anger is not turned away, but His hand is stretched out still.

    Not long ago an obituary appeared in the Salt Lake Tribune that said the recently departed had "died doing what he enjoyed most—watching BYU lose."

  11. #551
    The dude abides Jeff Lebowski's Avatar
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    I am with Jay on this one. John Dehlin is a horrible human being, but I don't like this legislation. If you don't like being recorded, don't say anything you aren't willing to own.
    "There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
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  12. #552
    Senior Member myboynoah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
    I am with Jay on this one. John Dehlin is a horrible human being, but I don't like this legislation. If you don't like being recorded, don't say anything you aren't willing to own.
    So, that's a principle you're willing live with?
    Give 'em Hell, Cougars!!!

    For all this His anger is not turned away, but His hand is stretched out still.

    Not long ago an obituary appeared in the Salt Lake Tribune that said the recently departed had "died doing what he enjoyed most—watching BYU lose."

  13. #553
    It is NOT a monkey! creekster's Avatar
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    California is a two party consent state. I don’t think the church had much to do with that, either. It doesn’t seem to be a problem here.
    PLesa excuse the tpyos.

  14. #554
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    Nevada is an all party consent state, with an exception for law enforcement in certain exigent circumstances.

    New York is a one party consent state. Apparently there about 12 states requiring all parties consent to taping and 38 that only require the consent of one party, unless Utah converts to the all party consent side. The all party consent states, at last count, unless changes have been made recently, are:California, Connecticut, Florida, Illinois, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Montana, Nevada, New Hampshire, Pennsylvania, and Washington. My review made the distinction that people inaccurately refer to it as "two-party" consent when all parties to a taped conversation must consent.
    Last edited by Topper; 02-07-2018 at 08:04 AM.
    "Guitar groups are on their way out, Mr Epstein."

    Upon rejecting the Beatles, Dick Rowe told Brian Epstein of the January 1, 1962 audition for Decca, which signed Brian Poole and the Tremeloes instead.

  15. #555
    The dude abides Jeff Lebowski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by myboynoah View Post
    So, that's a principle you're willing live with?
    Yes. That is the principle everyone has been living with in the state of Utah up to this point in time.

    There are times when recording someone is in incredibly poor taste and inconsiderate, but it shouldn't be a felony.
    "There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
    "It's no secret that the great American pastime is no longer baseball. Now it's sanctimony." -- Guy Periwinkle, The Nix.
    "Juilliardk N I ibuprofen Hyu I U unhurt u" - creekster

  16. #556
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
    Yes. That is the principle everyone has been living with in the state of Utah up to this point in time.

    There are times when recording someone is in incredibly poor taste and inconsiderate, but it shouldn't be a felony.
    That's a slippery slope. I'm sure there must some cases in which you would restrict that principle.
    Give 'em Hell, Cougars!!!

    For all this His anger is not turned away, but His hand is stretched out still.

    Not long ago an obituary appeared in the Salt Lake Tribune that said the recently departed had "died doing what he enjoyed most—watching BYU lose."

  17. #557
    The dude abides Jeff Lebowski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by myboynoah View Post
    That's a slippery slope. I'm sure there must some cases in which you would restrict that principle.
    Help me understand the cases where that principle does not apply that aren't already covered by privacy laws.
    "There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
    "It's no secret that the great American pastime is no longer baseball. Now it's sanctimony." -- Guy Periwinkle, The Nix.
    "Juilliardk N I ibuprofen Hyu I U unhurt u" - creekster

  18. #558

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
    I am with Jay on this one. John Dehlin is a horrible human being, but I don't like this legislation. If you don't like being recorded, don't say anything you aren't willing to own.
    I'm not advocating a position on the bill. mpfunk says it's a good bill. I don't understand the in's and out's here. But what I think is that the very narrow application of someone recording a bishop's interview should not be a large factor in both proposing and opposing the bill. I'm disappointed in both sides, if what we are hearing about the LDS church advocating this bill is true.

  19. #559
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    Quote Originally Posted by jay santos View Post
    I'm not advocating a position on the bill. mpfunk says it's a good bill. I don't understand the in's and out's here. But what I think is that the very narrow application of someone recording a bishop's interview should not be a large factor in both proposing and opposing the bill. I'm disappointed in both sides, if what we are hearing about the LDS church advocating this bill is true.
    Apart from what the LDS Church's motivation may be, there are public policy reasons why an "all parties' consent" law is reasonable. As noted above 12 other states have "all parties' consent" laws, two of them are vastly different, California and Nevada. Recording somebody surreptitiously has a dirty feel to it, so requiring all parties' consent seems like a better situation that allowing one party to record, perhaps entrap or encourage a compromising statement doesn't offend me.
    "Guitar groups are on their way out, Mr Epstein."

    Upon rejecting the Beatles, Dick Rowe told Brian Epstein of the January 1, 1962 audition for Decca, which signed Brian Poole and the Tremeloes instead.

  20. #560
    Soul Plumber wuapinmon's Avatar
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    I, for example, don't let students tape my classes. Why? Because it makes other students self-conscious to know that they're being record, and there are already enough affective filters against participation in a language classroom, I don't need someone's recorder adding to it. If they tell me, "I'll hide it" I still tell them "no" because all it takes is one person finding out they've been recorded for it to cause the whole class to know and then everyone to shut down.

    SC is a one-party consent state. If they were to record me against my will, I can't really do anything, but, could I not sue them for making a surreptitious copy of my copyrighted lecture?
    "Yeah, but never trust a Ph.D who has an MBA as well. The PhD symbolizes intelligence and discipline. The MBA symbolizes lust for power." -- Katy Lied

  21. #561

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
    Help me understand the cases where that principle does not apply that aren't already covered by privacy laws.
    it's a matter of presumption. for the person being recorded to have to affirmatively prove that their privacy was invaded doesn't make sense to me. the person who is doing the recording should have to prove that there is some kosher motivation behind the recording (obviously subject to statutory exceptions for domestic, sexual and child abuse).
    Te Occidere Possunt Sed Te Edere Non Possunt Nefas Est.

  22. #562
    Invisible Swordsman DrumNFeather's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Topper View Post
    Apart from what the LDS Church's motivation may be, there are public policy reasons why an "all parties' consent" law is reasonable. As noted above 12 other states have "all parties' consent" laws, two of them are vastly different, California and Nevada. Recording somebody surreptitiously has a dirty feel to it, so requiring all parties' consent seems like a better situation that allowing one party to record, perhaps entrap or encourage a compromising statement doesn't offend me.
    If one wanted to be cynical, they might say that John is more concerned about the recordings of church courts that he, Runells and others did without consent...if one wanted to be cynical.
    "They're good. They've always been good" - David Shaw.

    Well, because he thought it was good sport. Because some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DrumNFeather View Post
    If one wanted to be cynical, they might say that John is more concerned about the recordings of church courts that he, Runells and others did without consent...if one wanted to be cynical.
    Dehlin is just an ass, and asshats like Dehlin often make murky discussions which deserve an unmuddled discussion.

    I agree with ole greg that the surreptitiously recording person should have the burden rather the recorded person. It just smells.
    "Guitar groups are on their way out, Mr Epstein."

    Upon rejecting the Beatles, Dick Rowe told Brian Epstein of the January 1, 1962 audition for Decca, which signed Brian Poole and the Tremeloes instead.

  24. #564

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    Oh boy, a friend I've been trying to help with her faith crisis is headed of to a Dehllin retreat in St. George. I keep telling her he wants to make cash off her faith crisis but she will not listen.

  25. #565

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    Quote Originally Posted by DrumNFeather View Post
    If one wanted to be cynical, they might say that John is more concerned about the recordings of church courts that he, Runells and others did without consent...if one wanted to be cynical.
    If I were being cynical I would say John doesn't even know why he's against it, he just heard the Church is for the bill, so he's sure there's a reason he should oppose it.

  26. #566
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaka View Post
    Oh boy, a friend I've been trying to help with her faith crisis is headed of to a Dehllin retreat in St. George. I keep telling her he wants to make cash off her faith crisis but she will not listen.
    Tell her to keep the cash and sit down with her local bartender. She'll probably enjoy herself more and save some money. Given his lack of credentials, it is offensive he charges for shit like that.
    "Guitar groups are on their way out, Mr Epstein."

    Upon rejecting the Beatles, Dick Rowe told Brian Epstein of the January 1, 1962 audition for Decca, which signed Brian Poole and the Tremeloes instead.

  27. #567

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    I've told her something similar. She will not listen.

  28. #568
    Invisible Swordsman DrumNFeather's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaka View Post
    I've told her something similar. She will not listen.
    I've got a similar situation going on with a guy in my ward. He's not going to retreats or anything, but he keeps giving me all of the bona fides that these folks tout. "HE WAS AN RM AND AN ACTIVE MEMBER OF THE CHURCH...HELD CALLINGS TOO!"
    "They're good. They've always been good" - David Shaw.

    Well, because he thought it was good sport. Because some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.

  29. #569

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaka View Post
    Oh boy, a friend I've been trying to help with her faith crisis is headed of to a Dehllin retreat in St. George. I keep telling her he wants to make cash off her faith crisis but she will not listen.
    she better be careful or she's going to end up the meat in a brief pudgy middle aged white guy threesome sandwich
    Te Occidere Possunt Sed Te Edere Non Possunt Nefas Est.

  30. #570
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrumNFeather View Post
    I've got a similar situation going on with a guy in my ward. He's not going to retreats or anything, but he keeps giving me all of the bona fides that these folks tout. "HE WAS AN RM AND AN ACTIVE MEMBER OF THE CHURCH...HELD CALLINGS TOO!"
    Sounds the same bona fides for soliciting investments in "sophisticated" real estate "scams", I mean deals.
    "Guitar groups are on their way out, Mr Epstein."

    Upon rejecting the Beatles, Dick Rowe told Brian Epstein of the January 1, 1962 audition for Decca, which signed Brian Poole and the Tremeloes instead.

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