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Thread: Swimming

  1. #31
    Living in the Past ... FMCoug's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RC Vikings View Post
    Swimming never did help me lose weight but what it did do is lower my body fat and really helped me develop my upper body. I love to swim and I always feel great after a workout but I'm also very hungry. Maybe it was just me but I would have something healthy on hand to eat after a swim so that you stay away from junk.
    I remeber reading a study about this where they compared different types of cardio exercise and found that swimming was the least effective for weight loss. They theorized this is because of the hunger thing. Swimming in cold water makes you hunger, therefore you eat more after a swim workout than you would after a run, bike, etc.

  2. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by Space Ghost View Post
    I'm glad you are enjoying the Swimp3... it's an awesome device. I love mine.

    We did a timed 800 for our Masters workout today, here are my split and lap times:

    01:12 (01:12)
    02:29 (01:17)
    03:47 (01:18)
    05:05 (01:18)
    06:24 (01:19)
    07:42 (01:18)
    09:01 (01:19)
    10:19 (01:18)

    avg pace per 100 yards.... 01:17.4

    Typically during our workouts (in the lane I swim in anyway), we hold an average pace of about a 1:30 per 100 yards. So on an average day during an average workout (with rest between sets, etc), we will swim about 3200-3800 yards in an hour.




    I would suggest doing interval training to achieve faster speed. Interval training will keep your heart rate high (and is a killer for burning extra calories and losing weight) and build up your speed much better than a long slow slog through 2 miles of slow-paced laps.




    Check your area for the nearest Masters Swimming group. Our group has about 8 regulars with around 12-16 that show up each morning for a workout. I find that having other people to swim with, 1) keeps me getting up in the morning, and 2) pushes me to swim faster than I would otherwise if I were swimming alone. Also, the Masters group I swim with has a great coach that designs all of our workouts, helps us with our technique, etc.

    I started swimming again about 4 months ago, which I hadn't done with this degree of seriousness since High School, e.g after basically a 24-year absence. The structure of our Masters workouts has really whipped me into shape in a very short time. It's been great.




    I'd like to see that study... was it comparing jogging/biking to open water swimming or to interval swimming? Personally, when I'm out in the open water... I don't push myself as hard as when I'm in the pool. That may be because of the cold water (I guess), but I think it has more to do with the lack of structure that an pool-based swimming interval workout provides. Just by $0.02.

    cheers.
    I swim outdoors... It'll be another 5 months before I brave the pool again. But thanks for the advice.
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  3. #33
    Senior Member SteelBlue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Space Ghost View Post
    Is anyone interested in posting/sharing your swimming workout? I swim M/Tu/Th/Sa morning with the local Masters group where the workout is provided by the coach, but on W/F I have to come up with something on my own. Sometimes I fall into a bit of a rut (e.g. a main set of 25x100s) and would appreciate help mixing it up.

    Here is what we swam this morning (12/20/2010):



    workout on 12/21/2010:
    I think you've intimidated everyone SG both with the workout and the cool tables. I'm considering joining our team's Masters program but am being held back somewhat due to embarrassment. I really don't have any experience with the competitive swim strokes and am especially intimidated by the fly and to a lesser extent the backstroke. The thought of sharing a lane with people who know what they're doing scares me a bit. I think i'll get over it though as I've known most of them for years.

  4. #34

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    Ok....the swim thread has got me thinking that I want to master the 'swim' exercise routine.

    Started it about a year and a half ago, but events prevented me from following through. Starting up again as of this Saturday. I suck at swimming, and resemble more of a drowning man trying to save himself from a sinking ship in the ocean.

    However, I am reviewing a book called: "Total Immersion" and it has literally changed the way I swim, conserves strokes to help you glide through the water etc. I will get the motion back hopefully sooner than later. But, I would love to hear anyone else's comments about the effectiveness of the methods taught by this book. Anyone?
    "Newton's First Law of Motion: ...things at rest tend to stay at rest. Things in motion, tend to stay in motion...."

    Hmm... Good motivation for me to remain active I guess.

  5. #35
    Senior Member Eddie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Borg View Post
    Ok....the swim thread has got me thinking that I want to master the 'swim' exercise routine.

    Started it about a year and a half ago, but events prevented me from following through. Starting up again as of this Saturday. I suck at swimming, and resemble more of a drowning man trying to save himself from a sinking ship in the ocean.

    However, I am reviewing a book called: "Total Immersion" and it has literally changed the way I swim, conserves strokes to help you glide through the water etc. I will get the motion back hopefully sooner than later. But, I would love to hear anyone else's comments about the effectiveness of the methods taught by this book. Anyone?
    Sounds like a book I would like to read.

    I got swimming just because I had decided to try a couple of triathlons and needed to not drowned. I was surprised at how much it killed me to swim for even 5 minutes straight in the beginning. By the end I felt like I could swim for hours - though not necessarily quickly.

    I knew a gal who had been on the HS swim team and taught individual swim lessons. I had her come to the pool with me once just to watch my form and give me some pointers.

    What I got from her was smooth and glide. Reach forward as far as you can with your arm on each stroke - when initially I was just getting my arm out in front to push back for the next stroke.

    She also said to not be too quick to go for the next pull - allow yourself to glide some.

    I thought it was interesting that she said if you watch the fastest swimmers they aren't necessarily the ones who take the most strokes per lap. But they are really good at gliding.

    But I gotta admit - knowing that I'm supposed to glide and actually doing it are two VERY different things.

    For me personally I learned to put my head down further as that tends to lift your backside a little higher and helps me to get up on a better plane.

  6. #36
    Senior Member Katy Lied's Avatar
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    If you want a change up, I'd bring a pair of fins and do kicking intervals. The fins make you go really fast, so your kick times should be equivalent to your swimming intervals. It works different parts of your body, and you'll still be gasping for air. After a while, you should be able to do flip turns with the kickboard, but you have to kick hard and it will make your lungs burn when you come out of your turn.

    As a bonus, it gets you into shape should you have a vacation planned, oh--I dont know--in the South Pacific or somewhere.

  7. #37
    Senior Member SteelBlue's Avatar
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    Well I bit the bullet and joined the Masters program. Since our family has reached the team's maximum limit, my only cost is the registration fee of $44. I decided to hit the pool last night and once I got over the embarrassment of walking past the crowd of parents while dressed in a jammer and being 25 pounds overweight I really enjoyed the workout. I wasn't able to do too much because I really have no swimming base at all. But it felt good to get started. I'm hoping to get 2-3 workouts per week and build from there.

  8. #38

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    Still dabbling on working in swimming when I can....but, it's like it was said earlier. For me, it is also like "jogging while holding your breath".

    I get oxygen deprived so quickly. I can jog for a while so there is some semblence of cardio to my lungs. I breath on every third stroke. Following up on the "Total Immersion" book/swimming style that I am trying to master, it works great...if I had an oxygen tank or I could use a snorkle!

    I am trying to "glide" through the water (probably gliding as well as a granite boulder)...but doing ok at that. Just gotta resolve the 'breathing' issue. I may try breathing on every 'left' stroke, or 'right' stroke to up how many times I breath...but, I find it harder to "glide" when you are constantly breathing.

    Any suggestions?

    Sincerely,

    Man needing a snorkle
    "Newton's First Law of Motion: ...things at rest tend to stay at rest. Things in motion, tend to stay in motion...."

    Hmm... Good motivation for me to remain active I guess.

  9. #39
    Huge Member BigPiney's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Borg View Post
    Still dabbling on working in swimming when I can....but, it's like it was said earlier. For me, it is also like "jogging while holding your breath".

    I get oxygen deprived so quickly. I can jog for a while so there is some semblence of cardio to my lungs. I breath on every third stroke. Following up on the "Total Immersion" book/swimming style that I am trying to master, it works great...if I had an oxygen tank or I could use a snorkle!

    I am trying to "glide" through the water (probably gliding as well as a granite boulder)...but doing ok at that. Just gotta resolve the 'breathing' issue. I may try breathing on every 'left' stroke, or 'right' stroke to up how many times I breath...but, I find it harder to "glide" when you are constantly breathing.

    Any suggestions?

    Sincerely,

    Man needing a snorkle
    I breath on every right stroke. The better swimmers will often breath every 3rd stroke, so alternating right then left.

    My wife was trying to swim, and breathing every second right stroke, and when she started breathing every right stroke, she actually got faster.

    I am not the best swimmer, but I am probably better than most. I was out of the water in the top 10 at the 1/2 ironman last summer

  10. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by Borg View Post

    Man needing a snorkle
    This is actually not a bad idea while you work on your stroke and endurance. You can find snorkles designed for training.

  11. #41
    Known Heterosexual RC Vikings's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Borg View Post
    Still dabbling on working in swimming when I can....but, it's like it was said earlier. For me, it is also like "jogging while holding your breath".

    I get oxygen deprived so quickly. I can jog for a while so there is some semblence of cardio to my lungs. I breath on every third stroke. Following up on the "Total Immersion" book/swimming style that I am trying to master, it works great...if I had an oxygen tank or I could use a snorkle!

    I am trying to "glide" through the water (probably gliding as well as a granite boulder)...but doing ok at that. Just gotta resolve the 'breathing' issue. I may try breathing on every 'left' stroke, or 'right' stroke to up how many times I breath...but, I find it harder to "glide" when you are constantly breathing.

    Any suggestions?

    Sincerely,

    Man needing a snorkle
    I breath every left side stroke and it seems to work. I'm not a great swimmer but I enjoy and try and swim a couple of times a week. What works for me is to keep my head down, keep my legs up, grab all the water I can and pull through.

  12. #42
    Senior Member SteelBlue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Borg View Post
    I get oxygen deprived so quickly. I can jog for a while so there is some semblence of cardio to my lungs. I breath on every third stroke. Following up on the "Total Immersion" book/swimming style that I am trying to master, it works great...if I had an oxygen tank or I could use a snorkle!
    I was breathing every third stroke and was about to die after the first 100 I swam. One of the coaches came over and told me to breath every other stroke (for me that was every right stroke). I felt much, much better.

  13. #43
    Senior Member Eddie's Avatar
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    I breath under my right arm - so I guess that means every right stroke?

    I think it works great and I'm pretty happy with the endurance I had built up when I was swimming a lot. I'd have to really go hard before breathing became difficult.


    But just a word of warning. I'm wishing I had spent more time learning to breath out of the left side too. When I did a triathlon last summer I needed to stick to the river bank on my left. Because I was breathing/looking out the right side, I couldn't determine how far from the left bank I was and ended up a lot further from the side than I wanted to be.

    Sure - learning to swim straight might be another answer. I'm just saying - if you start breathing every other stroke it might not be a bad idea to alternate part way through your workout so that you learn to be comfortable breathing out of either side.

    For me - trying to breath out of the left side just has me sucking in water. Need practice.

  14. #44

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    Thanks All....will try the every right stroke going up, and every left side going back....will see if this helps. It probably will since I'm such a hack swwimmer. But, I have to admit I feel great when I get finished.
    "Newton's First Law of Motion: ...things at rest tend to stay at rest. Things in motion, tend to stay in motion...."

    Hmm... Good motivation for me to remain active I guess.

  15. #45
    Senior Member Goatnapper'96's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jxncoog View Post
    Green Canyon?
    Took our scouts there a few years back, and my son went with the scouts last month. I didn't like it but the boys did.
    Nothing beats a dip in Green Canyon after a jaunt up to the Wind Caves!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Space Ghost View Post
    Try the "sailboat drill". Hold a kick board between your thighs. Make sure 1/2 of the board is sticking below your body and then swim a few lengths using your freestyle stroke. Concentrate on using your core muscles to rotate your hips and shoulders together when you take your breaths. The board functions in two ways: 1) it will provide some buoyancy to keep you at the surface of the water and help you find the "glide" you are looking for, and 2) it will try to prevent the rotation which gives immediate feedback to your body to help you determine if you are correctly rotating your hips to take that breath.

    Remember... turn with your hips to breathe, not with your neck.

    HTH.

    cheers.
    I am a big fan of the "motorboat drill".

    A good thing to concentrate on in stroke development is really rotating the hips. Good tip.

  17. #47
    Living in the Past ... FMCoug's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigPiney View Post
    I am a big fan of the "motorboat drill."
    I hear wuap likes that one too.


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  18. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by FMCoug View Post
    I hear wuap likes that one too.
    I'm a diver.
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  19. #49
    Senior Member SteelBlue's Avatar
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    So my flip turns really suck. I asked a coach how to get better at them and he had me swim 6 strokes and then do a sommersault and continue for 6 more strokes then lather, rinse and repeat. I have to say that in just a half hour I went from the world's most embarrassing flip turns to maybe just Redding's most embarrassing flip turns. I figure I'm still a couple of practices away from feeling comfortable with them.

  20. #50
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    ya'll are crazy. I just started swimming from scratch last week b/c I wanted to get that extra cardio edge and plus knowing from others' experience that running will someday stab me in the back.

    I have never officially learned to swim, having grown up in I.F. where it's freezing year-round and there is no indoor water. (other than alternating bi-annual ward outings to Green Canyon and Heise). I could only really doggy paddle and do the side stroke (thanks, Boy Scout Handbook).

    Anyway, I got me my first suit (non-board shorts), goggles, and I started out learning the breast stroke and the backstroke, doing laps, getting winded, and getting my shoulders and thighs into beginner's condition. I did this for about 2 sessions and started feeling comfortable taking laps with these 2.

    Now, I'm onto the freestyle stroke, just taking laps getting my coordination down and learning to pivot on my axis without taking in water as I breathe. I've been 4 times total now, and I imagine it's just like learning to dance where you feel like an uncoordinated embarrassment at first, but little by little the pieces come together.

    I have turned to the miracle of Youtube to instruct me, after getting an initial couple of sessions from a friend. So how long until I'm shredding the pool Phelps style?

  21. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Commando View Post
    ya'll are crazy. I just started swimming from scratch last week b/c I wanted to get that extra cardio edge and plus knowing from others' experience that running will someday stab me in the back.

    I have never officially learned to swim, having grown up in I.F. where it's freezing year-round and there is no indoor water. (other than alternating bi-annual ward outings to Green Canyon and Heise). I could only really doggy paddle and do the side stroke (thanks, Boy Scout Handbook).

    Anyway, I got me my first suit (non-board shorts), goggles, and I started out learning the breast stroke and the backstroke, doing laps, getting winded, and getting my shoulders and thighs into beginner's condition. I did this for about 2 sessions and started feeling comfortable taking laps with these 2.

    Now, I'm onto the freestyle stroke, just taking laps getting my coordination down and learning to pivot on my axis without taking in water as I breathe. I've been 4 times total now, and I imagine it's just like learning to dance where you feel like an uncoordinated embarrassment at first, but little by little the pieces come together.

    I have turned to the miracle of Youtube to instruct me, after getting an initial couple of sessions from a friend. So how long until I'm shredding the pool Phelps style?
    I've been running on the treadmill then heading to the pool for laps right after. It flushes all the inflammation from my knees and is a great way to cap off a good workout.

    As far as shorts go, I actually swim in my Under Armour XL's (near knee lenght). No reason for anyone to have to see more skin than necessary.

    Funny Sidenote: When Commando is the last person to comment, the main page says

    "Swimming
    Commando"
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  22. #52
    Known Heterosexual RC Vikings's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteelBlue View Post
    So my flip turns really suck. I asked a coach how to get better at them and he had me swim 6 strokes and then do a sommersault and continue for 6 more strokes then lather, rinse and repeat. I have to say that in just a half hour I went from the world's most embarrassing flip turns to maybe just Redding's most embarrassing flip turns. I figure I'm still a couple of practices away from feeling comfortable with them.
    I've worked a little on doing flip turns and I hate them. For me it just means a little longer without air. Good luck with it.

  23. #53

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    Swimmers extraordinaires - take a look at the vids on youtube -

    "Total Immersion Perpetual Motion Freestyle" parts 1-6 and tell me what you think.

    For better or for worse, this guy has convinced me that this is the way to go. I am still having issues breathing and becoming oxygen deprived, but, I have made some progress in the last week or so. Can go further, and recovery time is getting shorter as I catch my breath etc.

    What do you think about this man's methods?

    Also: Another question. For those that do triathlons...do you freestyle swim the entire mile etc...without breaking into another type of stroke for a 'rest'...or do you just hammer through it freestyle?
    Last edited by Borg; 02-13-2011 at 08:59 AM.
    "Newton's First Law of Motion: ...things at rest tend to stay at rest. Things in motion, tend to stay in motion...."

    Hmm... Good motivation for me to remain active I guess.

  24. #54

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    Quote Originally Posted by Space Ghost View Post
    I watched the first 3 of the 6 videos. I'm no expert, but it seems like a fine method to develop your stroke and should be perfectly suited for triathalon-type open water swimming (which I gather is what you are training for). As I mentioned before, I own one of this guy's DVDs. The production value of the video is really crappy (equivalent in quality to a typical home video), but it goes over a lot of fundamental stuff for beginners. When I was learning to swim competitively in high school, our coach showed us some reel-to-reel projector films... they were very helpful. For 30 bucks you can get their basic "freestyle made easy" DVD. Seems like a decent investment to me.




    After sufficient training (like 4-6 months?), you should be able to hammer through it. Make a 1-mile swim your main set (35x50s in a 25yd pool) every so often (like once every 6 weeks?) and see how far you can go before resting or (eventually) how fast you can complete it without resting. If you can hold a 1:40/100yd pace, then you should finish a 1-mile swim in just under 30 minutes... which I think is a reasonable goal to shoot for. I dunno, you may already be that fast(?).

    cheers.
    No...I suck. Thanks for the input. Not sure how much more I can gain from the DVD they sell, or just study the youtube versions...but, I think I may want to pick up one of their current vids then.
    "Newton's First Law of Motion: ...things at rest tend to stay at rest. Things in motion, tend to stay in motion...."

    Hmm... Good motivation for me to remain active I guess.

  25. #55

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    Finally! A breakthrough!

    Have been struggling along since January trying to figure out this "swimming" thing. Could do a 50 yard swim, and be gassed, and couldn't figure out why the slow improvements...basically no improvements. Felt stronger in the water, more confident..but was just getting gassed and feeling oxygen deprived after only 50 yards????

    Asked a fellow who is a good swimmer if I could tag along, and have him evaluate my swimming technique (and to verify if there actually was one)...

    Anyway, he is also familiar with the "Total Immersion" book, and so, into the pool we went for an evaluation.

    Anyway, in accordance to the book, I was "pushing my buoy down" into the water (chest) to become more bouyant and to raise my hips/legs....so much so, that I was almost submarining under the water. Head completely under, and rotating almost 90 to take a breath.

    My arms were not going straight forward, but coming across my axial line, almost criss crossing out in front.

    He told me "I was swimming like a hot chick walks". Ha! So, it turns out that I was submarining, and almost 'tacking' in the water.

    Got my head back up to only partially underwater, arms going straight out and 'lengthening' my reach...and the biggest part of it all...."to relax".

    In 2 weeks, I've gone from getting gassed at 50 yards...to being able to go 200 yards without stopping! I'm ecstatic about that sudden burst of distance. I'm slow as all get out (50 yard in about 65 seconds) but hey...I don't have to stop at 50!!!

    Can't wait til I can knock down some real distances. Maybe one year from now...I'll be able to go a lot further. Only a couple more hundred yards, and I just may enter into a sprint tri!
    "Newton's First Law of Motion: ...things at rest tend to stay at rest. Things in motion, tend to stay in motion...."

    Hmm... Good motivation for me to remain active I guess.

  26. #56

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    Quote Originally Posted by SteelBlue View Post
    So my flip turns really suck. I asked a coach how to get better at them and he had me swim 6 strokes and then do a sommersault and continue for 6 more strokes then lather, rinse and repeat. I have to say that in just a half hour I went from the world's most embarrassing flip turns to maybe just Redding's most embarrassing flip turns. I figure I'm still a couple of practices away from feeling comfortable with them.
    So I have some tri's coming up and decided to get back in the pool. Swimming's by far my weakest discipline and I'm an open turner, too, who feels stupid that he still hasn't learned how to flip turn. I picked up this book last year:
    [ame="http://www.amazon.com/Fitness-Swimming-Second-Emmett-Hines/dp/0736074570"]Amazon.com: Fitness Swimming, Second Edition (9780736074575): Emmett Hines: Books@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51oXLp2QO4L.@@AMEPARAM@@51oXLp2QO4L[/ame]

    The author says that triathletes are wasting their time learning to flip turn. He thinks that at best, you'll only shave off a fraction of a second off of a good open turn, and that even so, the extra missed breaths will come back to bite you in an endurance event. I don't know nearly enough about swimming to comment, but it's an interesting take, and made me feel a little less dumb about my turns.
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  27. #57

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    Quote Originally Posted by ERCougar View Post
    So I have some tri's coming up and decided to get back in the pool. Swimming's by far my weakest discipline and I'm an open turner, too, who feels stupid that he still hasn't learned how to flip turn. I picked up this book last year:
    Amazon.com: Fitness Swimming, Second Edition (9780736074575): Emmett Hines: Books

    The author says that triathletes are wasting their time learning to flip turn. He thinks that at best, you'll only shave off a fraction of a second off of a good open turn, and that even so, the extra missed breaths will come back to bite you in an endurance event. I don't know nearly enough about swimming to comment, but it's an interesting take, and made me feel a little less dumb about my turns.
    Sweet! Open turners unite! I can't tell you how many times I've come up sputtering and disoriented while trying to learn how to do a flip turn.

  28. #58

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    SG (or any other swimmers/triathletes), I need some advice--
    I'm a very average swimmer. I can swim for distances but not fast (about 35 minutes for an open water mile, a little shorter in the pool). I'd like to get faster, but at the same time, I don't have time to do 5 swim workouts a week, which seems to be what these swim programs recommend to get better. Swim portions are always the shortest portions of triathlons, so it's the least important part of the event. Can I get better on 2 workouts a week?
    At least the Big Ten went after a big-time addition in Nebraska; the Pac-10 wanted a game so badly, it added Utah
    -Berry Trammel, 12/3/10

  29. #59

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    Quote Originally Posted by bluegoose View Post
    Sweet! Open turners unite! I can't tell you how many times I've come up sputtering and disoriented while trying to learn how to do a flip turn.
    Ha...no kidding. My injured ego gives up pretty quickly...and hence, I'm still an open turner.
    At least the Big Ten went after a big-time addition in Nebraska; the Pac-10 wanted a game so badly, it added Utah
    -Berry Trammel, 12/3/10

  30. #60
    Senior Member SteelBlue's Avatar
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    I'm getting a lot more comfortable with flip turns, now preferring them to open turns. As far as open turns go, I don't think it's an issue of time as much as rest. I'd theorize that as one tires, they spend just a little more time on the wall during each open turn. If one is training for an open water event, the mile you do in the pool with open turns might be much easier than the mile you'll do in the lake. No idea if that's true though. I will say that there isn't a single single triathlete on our club team that does open turns.

    My new challenge is what I guess are called stroke cycles. The coaches have brought to my attention that at my height (6' 2") I should be working toward swimming 25 yards in around 7 cycles (a right and left stroke). I currently can do it in 9 for a while then as I tire it turns into 10/11. When I watch the good swimmers (one in particular who swam in college) they do the same number of cycles on every single lap. It amazes me and I think maybe one of the keys to being a good triathlete is improving that efficiency. Think about how much unnecessary work a newbie like me does over those 25 yards. Extrapolate that out to a one mile swim and you can see that working on your cycle could really pay dividends in the long run.
    Last edited by SteelBlue; 03-21-2011 at 11:10 PM.

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