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  • Holocaust tourism

    My late uncle was a veteran of WW2, fighting in several area. France, Germany and I believe parts of Poland. As such, it has always held a special place of interest for me. As a kid, I was the benefactor of several war stories, all of which I found fascinating.

    One thing for sure...there were some things Uncle Pete did NOT talk much about, if at all. At least not with us. Like many vets, he was able to witness Holocaust atrocities. I was too young to get the details, but I gather that he was amongst some of the first to go into at least one camp....perhaps not the very first, but support troops that came within a few days of liberating the camp.

    Anyhow, I am reading a book on the Holocaust right now. Every now and then I will read these books. Perhaps a morbid curiosity about the darkness of the human spirit.

    I was wondering if anyone here has had the opportunity to visit any of the concentration camps? Auschwitz being the most likely one. This would be a really nice time to have Archaea here, as he is the German expert and has likely returned to that part of Europe. yes I know Auschwitz is not in germany.

    For those that have gone, what was it like? I have read accounts and watched video testimony and several people have said that it was almost too overwhelming to discuss. Would you recommend visiting? Is it something you would do again?

    LA has the amazing Wiesenthal Museum of Tolerance....one of the better Shoah museums in the country (I would say second to the DC musuem). At the Wiesenthal, upon entrance you are given an ID badge with the name of an actual person that was persecuted under the Nazi regime. You go throughout the musuem tour and at the very end, you stick your card into the computer and it tells you whether your person survived or was murdered. I have been 3 times, and every time I cry at the end. It is almost too much to bear, emotionally.

    And yet, something really compels me to visit these actual sites in Europe. I have no Jewish ancestry, so there is no personal family interest. Perhaps simply curious from a historic point of view. But at the same time very cautious.

    I would really appreciate it if anyone had any firsthand accounts. It is probably a longshot because most people are going to Disney Paris or the Louvre when they visit Europe.

    The thought of standing on those train tracks that lead into the gates at Auschwitz gives me the chills. It actually makes me scared to think about, frankly. That is hallowed ground.
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  • #2
    I visited Dachau outside of Munich once. It is tough to describe the emotion you feel. You have to experience it to understand. But I was definitely glad I went.

    I went through the DC museum shortly after it opened.

    I have a Jewish friend who lost grandparents, great-aunts, great-uncles, etc. in Auschwitz. Pretty much the entire family on one side of the family except for his grandmother.
    "There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
    "It's no secret that the great American pastime is no longer baseball. Now it's sanctimony." -- Guy Periwinkle, The Nix.
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    • #3
      Originally posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
      I visited Dachau outside of Munich once. It is tough to describe the emotion you feel. You have to experience it to understand. But I was definitely glad I went.

      I went through the DC museum shortly after it opened.

      I have a Jewish friend who lost grandparents, great-aunts, great-uncles, etc. in Auschwitz. Pretty much the entire family on one side of the family except for his grandmother.

      yes, Dachau seems to be the other likely destination, outside of Auschwitz/Birkenau.

      I believe my uncle went to Bergen-Belsen several days after the Brits found it. If I am not mistaken, BB is not even really open for tourism purposes. It seems wrong to use the term "tourism" but I don't know what else to call it.
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      • #4
        I've never been, but would like to do so for the reason to see where such atrocities took place - not so much because I am attracted to the morbidity of it, but because I am fascinated with historical sites.
        "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance and the gospel of envy; its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." - Winston Churchill


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        • #5
          Originally posted by TripletDaddy View Post
          yes, Dachau seems to be the other likely destination, outside of Auschwitz/Birkenau.

          I believe my uncle went to Bergen-Belsen several days after the Brits found it. If I am not mistaken, BB is not even really open for tourism purposes. It seems wrong to use the term "tourism" but I don't know what else to call it.
          I've been to dachau... its a harrowing experience.
          "Be a philosopher. A man can compromise to gain a point. It has become apparent that a man can, within limits, follow his inclinations within the arms of the Church if he does so discreetly." - The Walking Drum

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          • #6
            I visited Dachau with my family at the end of my mission in '73, and the memory of that trip remains pretty vivid. I'd recommend a visit if you're anywhere near Munich.

            I've also visited Mauthausen, the biggest camp in Austria, located near Linz which is roughly equidistant between Vienna and Salzburg. The camp is largely intact, and includes a room where you can still see the ovens. Mauthausen is used as a filming location for concentration camp movies. I saw it most recently in The Counterfeiters, a movie based on a true story of camp internees who were assigned to make counterfeit British pounds and U.S. dollars to disrupt those economies, but who intentionally sabotaged their work to impede the Nazi war machine.

            When my wife and I visited Mauthausen the first time in '96, they were rehearsing a memorial program that was to be conducted the following day. A superb female vocalist was singing heart-wrenching songs in Hebrew that were amplified throughout the camp. Hearing that music, while walking past the ovens and the showers, was an almost overwhelmingly emotional experience.

            And we took our three youngest to D.C. in '01 and walked through the Holocaust Memorial. It made a huge impression on all of us, including our then 9 year-old (they have a very nice exhibit tailored for younger kids). One room features a walkway above a floor that is filled with many thousands of shoes that were removed from internees who were later killed. And you're given a kind of passport with the name and picture of an internee whom you become for purposes of your visit. You're told at the end of your visit what happened to you at the camp. I was gassed.

            By all means go.

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            • #7
              My grandfather was a POW in one of the German work camps, and while that wasn't the same thing as the holocaust installations, it was pretty close (and, if the story is to be believed, he was saved from a firing squad by a Russian advance, almost literally with the rifle pointed at him with bullet in the chamber.

              He would not talk about it for many years. He would talk to my dad about it some, but really nobody else. And those stories were harrowing enough.

              I too would like to go on a tourism (that's the wrong word for this, I know) spree to visit many of those sites.
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              • #8
                My dad went to Poland, probably 20 years ago. Went to Auchwitz. Made an incredible impact on him. He came unglued at home as he told us about it. In his experience, the most painful part of the tour was seeing the room full of children's shoes.

                I would go if I had the chance, but I'd have to prepare myself, I think.
                My wife said she couldn't do it.

                I went to the Nagasaki museum. Very humbling experience. It makes a huge impact when see the personal, human aspects of big historical events.
                Last edited by Brian; 11-17-2008, 08:23 AM.
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                • #9
                  Like you I've read a lot of books regarding WWII and visiting Auschwitz, Normandy and a number of other historical sites is on my list.

                  One of the toughest books I've ever read is titled "Ghost Soldiers". Regarding the Bataan Death March and the rescue of American POW inside a Japanese Prisoner camp inside the Phillipines.

                  I read the book about 7 years ago and many of the images are still seared into my memory.

                  I have a very deep and grateful respect for the men and women who preservered and endured.

                  While some might think it's on the side of the Macabre to get into this stuff, I actually look at it the other way.

                  To me it's a testament to the Indomitable Spirit of Man, and that we truly can overcome the greatest odds and rise once again out of the ashes and that in the end Good does triumph over evil.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by RockyBalboa View Post
                    One of the toughest books I've ever read is titled "Ghost Soldiers". Regarding the Bataan Death March and the rescue of American POW inside a Japanese Prisoner camp inside the Phillipines.
                    I loved that book.

                    My HS drafting teacher was a Bataan Death March survivor. Decades later he would choke up every time someone asked him about it.
                    "There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
                    "It's no secret that the great American pastime is no longer baseball. Now it's sanctimony." -- Guy Periwinkle, The Nix.
                    "Juilliardk N I ibuprofen Hyu I U unhurt u" - creekster

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                    • #11
                      I really enjoyed Flags of our Fathers and Flyboys. Bradley can paint a picture. And the book explains the horror of the ending scene of the movie. The pacific campaign was a different war.
                      I intend to live forever.
                      So far, so good.
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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Brian View Post
                        I really enjoyed Flags of our Fathers and Flyboys. Bradley can paint a picture. And the book explains the horror of the ending scene of the movie. The pacific campaign was a different war.
                        If you liked Flags of Our Father (the book I assume) you absolutely owe it to yourself to see Letters From Iwo Jima. No WWII movie had more impact on me that than one save Schindlers List and maybe the opening scene from Saving Private Ryan when viewed for the first time in a theater. It was the best movie of 2006 by a mile IMO.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by UtahDan View Post
                          If you liked Flags of Our Father (the book I assume) you absolutely owe it to yourself to see Letters From Iwo Jima. No WWII movie had more impact on me that than one save Schindlers List and maybe the opening scene from Saving Private Ryan when viewed for the first time in a theater. It was the best movie of 2006 by a mile IMO.
                          Agreed. Great movie.
                          "There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
                          "It's no secret that the great American pastime is no longer baseball. Now it's sanctimony." -- Guy Periwinkle, The Nix.
                          "Juilliardk N I ibuprofen Hyu I U unhurt u" - creekster

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                          • #14
                            I've been to the DC museum. The film clips they play behind the concrete barriers (so little kids can't see them) are mind-boggling. I spent an entire Sunday there (church in Manasas, VA was canceled because Virginians apparently completely freak out about a quarter inch of snow). When I left I was mentally and emotionally exhausted. I can't imagine what someone who experienced it firsthand would have felt and continue to feel for the rest of their lives.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by BigFatMeanie View Post
                              I've been to the DC museum. The film clips they play behind the concrete barriers (so little kids can't see them) are mind-boggling. I spent an entire Sunday there (church in Manasas, VA was canceled because Virginians apparently completely freak out about a quarter inch of snow). When I left I was mentally and emotionally exhausted. I can't imagine what someone who experienced it firsthand would have felt and continue to feel for the rest of their lives.
                              When the museum first opened, or shortly thereafter, the shoes that PAC referenced were displayed a bit differently. In a huge glass case towards the entrance of the museum.

                              It is the first time I have ever started crying spontaneously like that at a museum, play, etc. Literally within about 1 minute of seeing it, I was tearing up.

                              That museum is also probably the most silent museum I have ever toured. What do you say to people? It is just overwhelming.
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