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Thread: "You Gotta Love It Baby" Official Jazz thread

  1. #19111

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    Quote Originally Posted by Surfah View Post
    I assume that laughy is for the Mo Wagner pick?

  2. #19112
    Huge Member BigPiney's Avatar
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    What a trip!

  3. #19113

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    So, with the Grayson Allen pick can we end the Jazz look at character first narrative. Also, I look forward in the future the Jazz not passing on players that they should pick because of character issues.
    The crux of what has traumatized us about CUF/CG is that we thought they were our friends. And their identity as BYU fans turned out to be the most important thing to them. What empty lives! What a damning indictment of the LDS Church!
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    My Mic Sounds Nice falafel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MartyFunkhouser View Post
    So, with the Grayson Allen pick can we end the Jazz look at character first narrative. Also, I look forward in the future the Jazz not passing on players that they should pick because of character issues.
    Not aware of that narrative. Sounds like one you made up. Also, aren't you supposed to be a Jazz fan these days?
    Ain't it like most people, I'm no different. We love to talk on things we don't know about.

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    Senior Member Eddie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MartyFunkhouser View Post
    So, with the Grayson Allen pick can we end the Jazz look at character first narrative. Also, I look forward in the future the Jazz not passing on players that they should pick because of character issues.
    Quote Originally Posted by falafel View Post
    Not aware of that narrative. Sounds like one you made up. Also, aren't you supposed to be a Jazz fan these days?
    I don't think the Jazz avoid all character issues. I do think they try to avoid crazy and I think they try to avoid uncoachable. Players who have an edge, but are also coachable and play their role as defined by the coach are fine. Players who are crazy and beat up garbage bins by Tooele are not fine. Also not fine are players who think they know more than the coach and won't listen or learn their role.

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    It is NOT a monkey! creekster's Avatar
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    I think DM's "not a rookie" campaign was a bad idea. I think he should have argued that he deserved it regardless od Simmons and let others throw in that not a rookie crap. Simmons is an amazing talent, and will likely win, but I could never vote for a player who plays PG who literally cant shoot beyond 10 or 12 feet. But I THINK DM made it easy for people to discount him because hte not a rookie crap is seen as a tacit concession Simmons is better.
    PLesa excuse the tpyos.

  7. #19117

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    Quote Originally Posted by creekster View Post
    I think DM's "not a rookie" campaign was a bad idea. I think he should have argued that he deserved it regardless od Simmons and let others throw in that not a rookie crap. Simmons is an amazing talent, and will likely win, but I could never vote for a player who plays PG who literally cant shoot beyond 10 or 12 feet. But I THINK DM made it easy for people to discount him because hte not a rookie crap is seen as a tacit concession Simmons is better.
    Agree completely. Simmons went dirty with the “I don’t see any other rookies who should even be considered” comments. Mitchell then got down and rolled in the mud with him.
    Prepare to put mustard on those words, for you will soon be consuming them, along with this slice of humble pie that comes direct from the oven of shame set at gas mark “egg on your face”! -- Moss

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  8. #19118

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    Quote Originally Posted by creekster View Post
    I think DM's "not a rookie" campaign was a bad idea. I think he should have argued that he deserved it regardless od Simmons and let others throw in that not a rookie crap. Simmons is an amazing talent, and will likely win, but I could never vote for a player who plays PG who literally cant shoot beyond 10 or 12 feet. But I THINK DM made it easy for people to discount him because hte not a rookie crap is seen as a tacit concession Simmons is better.
    i could certainly be wrong, but i think it was more a troll on the part of donovan. if he was serious, then no doubt a dumb campaign. if you can't argue you are a better player, for all intensive purposes, you have already lost.
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  9. #19119

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    I might be out of touch, but I think Gobert is overrated as a defender. I don't watch much NBA, but I watched a lot of the playoffs this year. It seems like the classic rim protector that stays in the paint is becoming a bit obsolete. It seemed like Gobert's inability or reluctance to switch perimeter ball screens hurt the Jazz quite frequently. Also in direct comparison, I thought Capela was far superior as a defensive player.

  10. #19120

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    Quote Originally Posted by jay santos View Post
    I might be out of touch, but I think Gobert is overrated as a defender. I don't watch much NBA, but I watched a lot of the playoffs this year. It seems like the classic rim protector that stays in the paint is becoming a bit obsolete. It seemed like Gobert's inability or reluctance to switch perimeter ball screens hurt the Jazz quite frequently. Also in direct comparison, I thought Capela was far superior as a defensive player.
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  11. #19121

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    Quote Originally Posted by jay santos View Post
    I might be out of touch, but I think Gobert is overrated as a defender. I don't watch much NBA, but I watched a lot of the playoffs this year. It seems like the classic rim protector that stays in the paint is becoming a bit obsolete. It seemed like Gobert's inability or reluctance to switch perimeter ball screens hurt the Jazz quite frequently. Also in direct comparison, I thought Capela was far superior as a defensive player.
    "Far superior?" lol
    Prepare to put mustard on those words, for you will soon be consuming them, along with this slice of humble pie that comes direct from the oven of shame set at gas mark “egg on your face”! -- Moss

    There are three rules that I live by: never get less than twelve hours sleep; never play cards with a guy who has the same first name as a city; and never get involved with a woman with a tattoo of a dagger on her body. Now you stick to that, and everything else is cream cheese. --Coach Finstock

  12. #19122

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    Quote Originally Posted by Donuthole View Post
    "Far superior?" lol
    This was just my observation during our series with them, but looking at the stats, it looks the stat comparison between the two was much different total season vs that playoff series.

  13. #19123

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    Quote Originally Posted by jay santos View Post
    This was just my observation during our series with them, but looking at the stats, it looks the stat comparison between the two was much different total season vs that playoff series.

    Gobert is definitely neutralized somewhat against a team that jacks as many 3s as Houston. But stick him in against GS or other teams who score a lot more points in the paint than Houston, and that's when he can go to work. Capela is a quality player, but his overall defensive impact on Houston's production is very minimal--they allow just about the same with him as without him. Not so for the French Rejection.
    Prepare to put mustard on those words, for you will soon be consuming them, along with this slice of humble pie that comes direct from the oven of shame set at gas mark “egg on your face”! -- Moss

    There are three rules that I live by: never get less than twelve hours sleep; never play cards with a guy who has the same first name as a city; and never get involved with a woman with a tattoo of a dagger on her body. Now you stick to that, and everything else is cream cheese. --Coach Finstock

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    Quote Originally Posted by smokymountainrain View Post
    i could certainly be wrong, but i think it was more a troll on the part of donovan. if he was serious, then no doubt a dumb campaign. if you can't argue you are a better player, for all intensive purposes, you have already lost.
    I don't think it matters whether he was serious or not. (and FTR I think Adidas pushed this on him, not the other way around; in his interview with Satan's spawn, I mean J.J. Redick, DM said the sweatshirt idea was from Adidas and the fact that he wore it the day after Simmons popped off was just fortuitous, not planned.) The point is that regardless of WHY he did it, it focused everyone's attention on an issue that he could NOT win. Simmons was on the ballot. Regardless of whether you liked it or not, he was deemed a rookie by the NBA (just like Blake Griffin had been) and by ignoring the merits of his candidacy for the award in favor of a procedural complaint he could not win, DM essentially undermined his chance of winning.

    In my mind Simmons benefitted most from his year off by being in the forefront of media minds when the season started. He was part of 'the process.' He had been touted as an amazing talent for a year before he played. There was a lot of attention on him and Embiid from game one. The rest of the class had to get their feet wet and had to earn their notoriety. DM and Tatum didnt rise until later, which is how it should be with rookies. If the season had gone another month or two, DM might have had a better chance (or Tatum might have ended up winning). In analyzing the ballots, it is pretty clear, however, that Simmons was the choice by a lot of knowledgeable people. DM had his supporters, but, truthfully, it is hard to discount Simmons excellence, apart from the fact that the kid simply has not shot beyond 12 feet (which irks me beyond belief because a guy that athletic could absolutely manage to shoot if he put his mind to it).

    In the end, however, it might be a good thing he did not win. This should leave him a little more hungry and wanting to prove his place.
    PLesa excuse the tpyos.

  15. #19125
    It is NOT a monkey! creekster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jay santos View Post
    I might be out of touch, but I think Gobert is overrated as a defender. I don't watch much NBA, but I watched a lot of the playoffs this year. It seems like the classic rim protector that stays in the paint is becoming a bit obsolete. It seemed like Gobert's inability or reluctance to switch perimeter ball screens hurt the Jazz quite frequently. Also in direct comparison, I thought Capela was far superior as a defensive player.
    Jay, you're out of touch. Waaaaaaaaay out of touch. Capela is a talent. And it is true that Gobert's game use changed in the playoffs against Houston. But did you watch him against OKC? Did you see how many times he altered the play simply because he was there, looming, causing WB to go back out and jack up an ill-advised three? (All of Westbrook's threes are ill-advised tbh.) Gobert has an amazing effect on the game and it is reflected in the numbers. And remember that the DPOY award is given based on the regular season, not based on one or two series in the playoffs.
    PLesa excuse the tpyos.

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    Quote Originally Posted by creekster View Post
    I don't think it matters whether he was serious or not. (and FTR I think Adidas pushed this on him, not the other way around; in his interview with Satan's spawn, I mean J.J. Redick, DM said the sweatshirt idea was from Adidas and the fact that he wore it the day after Simmons popped off was just fortuitous, not planned.) The point is that regardless of WHY he did it, it focused everyone's attention on an issue that he could NOT win. Simmons was on the ballot. Regardless of whether you liked it or not, he was deemed a rookie by the NBA (just like Blake Griffin had been) and by ignoring the merits of his candidacy for the award in favor of a procedural complaint he could not win, DM essentially undermined his chance of winning.

    In my mind Simmons benefitted most from his year off by being in the forefront of media minds when the season started. He was part of 'the process.' He had been touted as an amazing talent for a year before he played. There was a lot of attention on him and Embiid from game one. The rest of the class had to get their feet wet and had to earn their notoriety. DM and Tatum didnt rise until later, which is how it should be with rookies. If the season had gone another month or two, DM might have had a better chance (or Tatum might have ended up winning). In analyzing the ballots, it is pretty clear, however, that Simmons was the choice by a lot of knowledgeable people. DM had his supporters, but, truthfully, it is hard to discount Simmons excellence, apart from the fact that the kid simply has not shot beyond 12 feet (which irks me beyond belief because a guy that athletic could absolutely manage to shoot if he put his mind to it).

    In the end, however, it might be a good thing he did not win. This should leave him a little more hungry and wanting to prove his place.
    Ignoring the merits of Simmons' candidacy? This isn't oral argument. The award is "argued" and won on the court. You make it sound like Donovan should have wearing a sweatshirt with his stats or something.
    Ain't it like most people, I'm no different. We love to talk on things we don't know about.

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    Quote Originally Posted by falafel View Post
    Ignoring the merits of Simmons' candidacy? This isn't oral argument. The award is "argued" and won on the court. You make it sound like Donovan should have wearing a sweatshirt with his stats or something.
    Sorry, I was unclear. I mean DM ignore the merits of his own candidacy. There is a very compelling argument to be made that head to head DM should be ROTY. He is a better and def more versatile scorer. He carried a team on offense, replacing an all-star. He played great defense. He stepped into the PG role when needed, even though is not really a PG. And so forth. But rather than make the point that he was the best nominee for the award he simply played coy wiot the not a rookie crap. It worked against him, in the end, I think.
    PLesa excuse the tpyos.

  18. #19128
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    Nah Donovan didn't earn ROY based on everything. Not quite. Ben was running at a full clip all season long (which is the strongest argument for him not winning by him not being accepted him as a rookie since he had a full year to ramp up) and Donovan went through a tremendous growth as a player from the first games of the season to that last game vs. Houston where he was the heart and soul of the Jazz. Donovan is the better player to me, but he didn't have the body of work all season that Ben did. What could have shaken up the race is if Utah would have been able to knock off Houston - or at least take them 7 games. Tatum's playoff performance bought him a LOT of capital in the ROY race. Donovan leading Utah vs the warriors (and make no mistake - Utah had GS' number this year) in the WCFs might have tipped it in his favor. But if DM has showed anything, it's the ability to improve by leaps and bounds. If this little race has kept him hungry, I'll gladly take the result-- and I'm sure he would too.
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    Quote Originally Posted by creekster View Post
    Sorry, I was unclear. I mean DM ignore the merits of his own candidacy. There is a very compelling argument to be made that head to head DM should be ROTY. He is a better and def more versatile scorer. He carried a team on offense, replacing an all-star. He played great defense. He stepped into the PG role when needed, even though is not really a PG. And so forth. But rather than make the point that he was the best nominee for the award he simply played coy wiot the not a rookie crap. It worked against him, in the end, I think.
    Gotcha.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Commando View Post
    Nah Donovan didn't earn ROY based on everything. Not quite. Ben was running at a full clip all season long (which is the strongest argument for him not winning by him not being accepted him as a rookie since he had a full year to ramp up) and Donovan went through a tremendous growth as a player from the first games of the season to that last game vs. Houston where he was the heart and soul of the Jazz. Donovan is the better player to me, but he didn't have the body of work all season that Ben did. What could have shaken up the race is if Utah would have been able to knock off Houston - or at least take them 7 games. Tatum's playoff performance bought him a LOT of capital in the ROY race. Donovan leading Utah vs the warriors (and make no mistake - Utah had GS' number this year) in the WCFs might have tipped it in his favor. But if DM has showed anything, it's the ability to improve by leaps and bounds. If this little race has kept him hungry, I'll gladly take the result-- and I'm sure he would too.
    Mostly agree. But much like Russ’ and the Beard’s (undeserved) MVPs. All awards are for the regular season only. The votes were submitted before the playoffs.

    It would be nice if they had some kind of full year or playoff mvp award. Though like the finals mvp it likely would default to the best player on the winning team.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Art Vandelay View Post
    Mostly agree. But much like Russ’ and the Beard’s (undeserved) MVPs. All awards are for the regular season only. The votes were submitted before the playoffs.

    It would be nice if they had some kind of full year or playoff mvp award. Though like the finals mvp it likely would default to the best player on the winning team.
    Well that makes sense and goes to support my little theory I guess. It also explains Harden being the MVP that clearly belonged to Lebron willing his crap team to the finals.
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    My Mic Sounds Nice falafel's Avatar
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    Jazz waive Jonas Jerebko over the weekend, and he's apparently going to the Warriors.

    Does this make way for Georges Niang to join the Jazz? He's been playing very well in the G-League and now in the summer league games.
    Ain't it like most people, I'm no different. We love to talk on things we don't know about.

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  23. #19133
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    Well we can at least keep Grayson Allen on. Actually, I guess he surprised everybody with his athletic ability- specifically his ability to dunk. Spida was lamenting on Twitter that there ought to be a summer league dunk contest.

    "I'm anti, can't no government handle a commando / Your man don't want it, Trump's a bitch! I'll make his whole brand go under,"

  24. #19134

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    Quote Originally Posted by Art Vandelay View Post
    Though like the finals mvp it likely would default to the best player on the winning team.
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  25. #19135

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    Quote Originally Posted by Commando View Post
    Well we can at least keep Grayson Allen on. Actually, I guess he surprised everybody with his athletic ability- specifically his ability to dunk. Spida was lamenting on Twitter that there ought to be a summer league dunk contest.

    his athleticism is like Jake Heaps calm in the pocket. looks great in practice, doesn't really manifest in games.

    and yeah, i have to think Niang is a big reason the Jazz jettisoned Jonas.
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  26. #19136

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    I wish someone would have punched Grayson Allen in the face after his dunks. SJBH.
    The crux of what has traumatized us about CUF/CG is that we thought they were our friends. And their identity as BYU fans turned out to be the most important thing to them. What empty lives! What a damning indictment of the LDS Church!
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  27. #19137
    My Mic Sounds Nice falafel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MartyFunkhouser View Post
    I wish someone would have punched Grayson Allen in the face after his dunks. SJBH.
    Spoken like a true Jazz fan.
    Ain't it like most people, I'm no different. We love to talk on things we don't know about.

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  28. #19138

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    Quote Originally Posted by falafel View Post
    Spoken like a true Jazz fan.
    He deserves to be punched in the face regardless of fan loyalty or not.
    The crux of what has traumatized us about CUF/CG is that we thought they were our friends. And their identity as BYU fans turned out to be the most important thing to them. What empty lives! What a damning indictment of the LDS Church!
    --SeattleUte

    He who drinks beer sleeps well. He who sleeps well cannot sin. He who does not sin goes to heaven. The logic is impeccable.
    --Charles W. Bamforth, Ph.D.

  29. #19139
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    As a Blazer fan... I think Grayson is the perfect fit for people who already don't like the Jazz... it props our position that the Jazz are always playing desperate and insecure.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MartyFunkhouser View Post
    He deserves to be punched in the face regardless of fan loyalty or not.
    I knew you didn't understand fan loyalty.
    Ain't it like most people, I'm no different. We love to talk on things we don't know about.

    "The only one of us who is so significant that Jeff owes us something simply because he decided to grace us with his presence is falafel." -- All-American

    GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

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