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Thread: "You Gotta Love It Baby" Official Jazz thread

  1. #1

    Default "You Gotta Love It Baby" Official Jazz thread

    Training camp is open. A lot of questions surrounding the season. Is bringing back the same team that limped to an 8th place finish really going to provide better results, especially when the Spurs and Lakers both got much better? Will Bozoer be a distraction or will the fact that he is playing for a contract and value motivate him to play harder? A lot of questions, not a lot of answers. I am much less optimistic heading into this season than I was heading into the last one.

  2. #2

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    Apparently AK, Korver and CJ all went down with injuries yesterday. Couple that with the fact that Harpring is out, and the Jazz could be in some trouble on the wing:

    http://www.insidehoops.com/blog/?p=4829
    Tim Buckley of the Deseret News reports: Three Jazz players — all small forward/swingmen types who are rotation regulars for the club — were injured at training camp this morning. Andrei Kirilenko (strained left quadriceps muscle), C.J. Miles (strained left hip flexor) and Kyle Korver (inflamed left knee) all did not take part in tonight’s second session of two-a-days. Usual backup shooting guard Korver underwent an MRI exam, results of which were not immediately made known.

  3. #3
    Where's Wallace? Surfah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sizzle View Post
    Training camp is open. A lot of questions surrounding the season. Is bringing back the same team that limped to an 8th place finish really going to provide better results, especially when the Spurs and Lakers both got much better? Will Bozoer be a distraction or will the fact that he is playing for a contract and value motivate him to play harder? A lot of questions, not a lot of answers. I am much less optimistic heading into this season than I was heading into the last one.
    I don't know if that was a purposeful typo or not, but well done.

    Wel, the last time nothing was expected of the Jazz (in fact I think many expected them to finish last), they had a hell of a season.
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    Boozer feels like he is the starter at the 4.

    http://www.deseretnews.com/article/7...to-Boozer.html

    When training camp opened Saturday, coach Jerry Sloan made it known he had not yet decided if incumbent Carlos Boozer or backup Paul Millsap

    will start the 2009-10 NBA season at power forward for the Jazz.

    It was news to Boozer.

    "I feel like I'm the starter," the two-time NBA All-Star said Sunday, before the Jazz open their second day of two-a-days. "I think I've earned that. That's the only role I've been in my whole career."

    Boozer has started each game he's played in four of his five seasons with the Jazz, and started 129 of 156 in during his two years in Cleveland.

    "I think it's great to have competition," said Boozer, who during the offseason expressed eagerness to be traded to either Chicago or Miami. "You know, I think Paul is very good. I guess if we are competing, then we're competing for it. But I feel like I am the starter."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Surfah View Post
    I don't know if that was a purposeful typo or not, but well done.
    The first time I made that mistake, it was an accident. Subsequent times, it has been on purpose.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sizzle View Post
    Boozer feels like he is the starter at the 4.

    http://www.deseretnews.com/article/7...to-Boozer.html
    Do you think that Milsap should start over Boozer?
    "Nobody listens to Turtle."
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  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Surfah View Post
    Do you think that Milsap should start over Boozer?
    Honestly, I don't know. I am trying to put my displeasure with Booz this summer aside, and knowing that the Jazz have essentially committed to Millsap, part of me wants to turn over the spot to Sap. But, Boozer is a better offensive player than Sap, and Sap has done fine coming off the bench when he can be a "garbage" player. Boozer couldn't do that I don't think. Plus, if the Jazz are serious about moving Boozer, they'll need him to play well to get value back.

    Either way, this is one nasty hangover that I can't wait to shake.

  8. #8

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    I'd love to see Sap start over Boozer if for no other reason that to watch the hilarity that would ensue as Boozer bitches and moans all season.

    I always found it funny that when AK's minutes and touches were reduced drastically a few years ago and AK whined about it, fans, coaches and media all ripped AK for his "attitude problem". Nevermind the fact that every other guy in the league, if put in that situation, would do the same. If, for some reason Sap starts, we'll get to see it firsthand with Boozer.

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    While normally bringing back the same mediocre line-up isn't anything to be excited about, this year we won't be starting without Deron, and then losing Booz and Okur in short order. That alone should be an improvement. Although the recent injuries you mentioned don't inspire much confidence.

    I also think that Boozer has to start over Millsap.

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    Everyone seems healthy, there have been significant roster upgrades, and there were no major distractions in the offseason. Should be a good year. I'm looking forward to another season of Jazz basketball.

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    Reading the DNews yesterday afternoon, it said AK has added a lot of bulk. What does that mean? Does he no longer look like a concentration camp prisoner?
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    sweet triple TripletDaddy's Avatar
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    It is about time we had a Jazz thread. What took so long?
    Fitter. Happier. More Productive.


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    Quote Originally Posted by HuskyFreeNorthwest View Post
    Reading the DNews yesterday afternoon, it said AK has added a lot of bulk. What does that mean? Does he no longer look like a concentration camp prisoner?
    He always adds, but then he loses it as the season goes on. He's just not built for size.

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    AK will look like a skeleton again once he gets back into his all night WoW schedule.

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    For whatever reason, this is the first year I am not excited about an upcoming Jazz season. Help me out, get me excited! I'm having a hard time. I know I will watch most games and definitely be passionate about wins and losses, but right now, I can't get into it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LiveCoug View Post
    For whatever reason, this is the first year I am not excited about an upcoming Jazz season. Help me out, get me excited! I'm having a hard time. I know I will watch most games and definitely be passionate about wins and losses, but right now, I can't get into it.
    Same. Though I guess I know the reason.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkGrace View Post
    Everyone seems healthy, there have been significant roster upgrades, and there were no major distractions in the offseason. Should be a good year. I'm looking forward to another season of Jazz basketball.
    Quote Originally Posted by LiveCoug View Post
    For whatever reason, this is the first year I am not excited about an upcoming Jazz season. Help me out, get me excited! I'm having a hard time. I know I will watch most games and definitely be passionate about wins and losses, but right now, I can't get into it.
    Quote Originally Posted by MarkGrace View Post
    Same. Though I guess I know the reason.

    Exposed, MG!!!

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkGrace View Post
    Same. Though I guess I know the reason.
    If you know the reason, let me know.

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    I am excited for this year. Boozer will have a big year playing for a contract/trade, probably Sloan's final year, DWill says his ankle is good to go, nobody expects anything from the Jazz. Everything is lining up to make this a banner year!
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  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by falafel View Post
    He always adds, but then he loses it as the season goes on. He's just not built for size.
    Good thing he is built for speed then. You motorboating... nevermind.

  21. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by HuskyFreeNorthwest View Post
    DWill says his ankle is good to go
    Except he also said that he wonders if his ankle will ever be the same again. Gracey, can you help me with the source on that one?

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    Quote Originally Posted by TripletDaddy View Post
    It is about time we had a Jazz thread. What took so long?
    STFU!

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    Quote Originally Posted by TripletDaddy View Post
    It is about time we had a Jazz thread. What took so long?
    I don't remember you starting any Lakers thread either, DDD.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sizzle View Post
    I am much less optimistic heading into this season than I was heading into the last one.
    What exactly was it about last season that made you somewhat optimistic going in? I feel about the same about this season as I did last year. Another offseason where the Jazz needed some roster changes, basically did nothing except participate in the draft because David Stern tells them they're supposed to, and here we are again.

    I guess the biggest difference for me is that now that Jazz has a HOF coach. DDD, how many Lakers (players or coaches) were inducted into the HOF this year? Ha!

  25. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheBYUGuy View Post
    What exactly was it about last season that made you somewhat optimistic going in? I feel about the same about this season as I did last year. Another offseason where the Jazz needed some roster changes, basically did nothing except participate in the draft because David Stern tells them they're supposed to, and here we are again.

    I guess the biggest difference for me is that now that Jazz has a HOF coach. DDD, how many Lakers (players or coaches) were inducted into the HOF this year? Ha!
    Collins is gone. This season is definitely looking up.
    Prepare to put mustard on those words, for you will soon be consuming them, along with this slice of humble pie that comes direct from the oven of shame set at gas mark “egg on your face”! -- Moss

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    2009-10 Forecast: Utah Jazz

    2008-09 Recap

    It wasn't supposed to turn out like this. A Jazz nucleus that made the conference finals in 2007 and took the eventual conference champion Lakers to six tough games in 2008 was poised to take the final step in 2009. With all the key players in their prime and a few younger ones emerging, all eyes were on Utah to push for a spot in the Finals.

    Instead, the Jazz struggled with injuries and inconsistency all season and never quite found a rhythm. Star point guard Deron Williams labored through an ankle injury in the first half of the year while All-Star forward Carlos Boozer missed 45 games with knee and hamstring problems. Utah managed to tread water in spite of it all, as reserve forward Paul Millsap replaced Boozer and played so well that he nearly made the All-Star team. A 12-game winning streak in February put them at 41-23 just as Boozer returned and, seemingly, left them poised to claim the division title and make a deep playoff run.

    That's when the Jazz unveiled their worst surprise. Utah went 7-11 over its final 18 games -- including embarrassing home losses to injury-riddled Minnesota and Golden State squads -- to fall to the No. 8 seed in the Western Conference. In the postseason, it fell in five easy games to L.A., with all four losses coming by double digits. In short, the Jazz were far less threatening than advertised, going 8-15 in the final 23 contests.

    In that stretch, they went 2-12 on the road, and that's part of a larger, troubling trend. Utah was 33-8 at home but 15-26 on the road, the largest home-road split in the league, and it marked the second straight season the Jazz claimed that honor. In the 2007-08 season, the split was actually worse: 37-4 at home, but 17-24 on the road. Over the past two seasons, their 38-game differential is far and away the league's largest. Their 70-12 home record is tied with Boston for the league's best in that span, but their road record is just 13th (see chart).

    Biggest home-road differential, 2007-08 and 2008-09
    Team Home W-L Road W-L Difference
    Utah 70-12 32-50 +38
    Dallas 66-16 35-47 +31
    Portland 62-20 33-49 +29
    Atlanta 56-26 28-54 +28
    Denver 66-16 38-44 +28

    Playing on the road was one thing, but the Jazz also struggled in back-to-backs. Actually "struggled" is putting it mildly; they became an expansion team, going 4-18 on the second night of a back-to-back. It doesn't seem obvious why -- the Jazz were one of the league's deeper teams, so if anything, they should have thrived in that situation.

    One key reason the Jazz underperformed was because their offense wasn't nearly as potent as it was the previous season -- Utah finished ninth in offensive efficiency after ranking second in 2007-08. The injuries to Williams and Boozer obviously were factors, but so was the lack of an outside threat. The Jazz ranked 27th in both 3-point attempts per field goal attempt and in 3-point accuracy; combine those two data points, and only Oklahoma City and Philadelphia had a less threatening perimeter game.

    Utah still punished opponents inside, of course -- a fixture of the Jazz attack under Jerry Sloan -- and ranked second in the NBA in free throw rate. The Jazz finished fourth in 2-point field goal percentage, too, and had they complemented that inside power with more 3s, they would have been a devastating offensive force. Instead, they ranked seventh in true shooting percentage, not nearly good enough for an offensive team with title aspirations.

    HOLLINGER'S '08-09 STATS

    W-L: 48-34 (Pythagorean W-L: 50-32)
    Offensive Efficiency: 107.1 (9th)
    Defensive Efficiency: 104.7 (12th)
    Pace Factor: 95.6 (10th)
    Highest PER: Deron Williams (21.13)

    Defensively, the Jazz were their usual middling selves. As ever, they fouled at an unusually high rate, though they've dialed it back enough in recent years that they no longer annually lead the league. Utah was 26th in opponent free throw rate, and as a result, 19th in opponent TS%. Despite ranking third in forcing turnovers, their opponents' high TS% doomed the Jazz to a 12th-place finish in defensive efficiency -- again, a good showing, but below expectations for a team that hoped to win the West.

    To complete the disappointing tone of the season, the Jazz also suffered a huge loss off the court -- the death of beloved owner Larry Miller. The team now is under the aegis of his son, Greg; so far, at least, not much has changed.

    Offseason Moves

    As with several teams this summer, Utah found its offseason colored heavily by two words that have nothing to do with basketball: luxury tax. With Deron Williams' maximum extension kicking in this season and the luxury tax level taking a slight dip, the Jazz suddenly found themselves well above the threshold. They hoped to move under it because Boozer, Mehmet Okur and Kyle Korver all had the ability to opt out of their contracts; somewhat to the team's surprise, all three opted to stay in Utah and play out the final year.

    As a result of those decisions and matching an offer sheet to Millsap, the Jazz enter training camp about $14 million over the luxury tax threshold. They've never paid the tax before, and as a small-market team, aren't terribly well-equipped to take the hit. Fortunately, their financial foundation is otherwise solid, so they may swallow the bitter pill to keep the nucleus together.

    On the other hand, if the team struggles, it makes little sense to keep Boozer's $12 million deal on the books -- at a cost of $24 million when the tax is included -- and the Jazz are likely to donate him to a team sitting under the cap if that situation arises.

    But one thing they're unlikely to do, regardless of cost, is trade what has become an incredibly valuable asset -- a completely unprotected first-round draft pick from the Knicks in 2010. Utah acquired the pick several years ago, but looking at the Knicks' roster, it could very well end up being the first pick in the draft.

    Aside from widespread debate about whether the team could handle the tax and if or when Boozer would be traded, very little happened in Salt Lake City this summer:

    Drafted Eric Maynor and Goran Suton. Maynor will take over as the backup point guard after veterans Brevin Knight and Ronnie Price failed in that role last season. He's a savvy four-year player who doesn't have great upside, but as a 10-minute-a-night game manager, he provides decent value for the 20th pick. Plus, he's big enough that he might be able to pair with Williams in small backcourts at times. Second-round pick Suton surprised many by not playing in Europe to develop his skills; instead he will compete for a roster spot in training camp.

    Matched Portland's four-year, $32 million offer sheet for Millsap. This was far and away the biggest decision of the summer, as it all but ensured the Jazz would pay a large luxury tax bill. The Blazers front-loaded the offer to maximize their division rival's financial pain, but for the Jazz, preserving the asset was more important than avoiding the tax. Basketball-wise, that perspective makes tons of sense. The Jazz were looking to a post-Boozer future after this season (or perhaps sooner if they trade him), and Millsap is the obvious successor at the position given how well he played a year ago.

    Announced Matt Harpring would miss training camp. Harpring is staying home and will reportedly check back in six weeks on the progress of his troublesome knee and ankle injuries. While it seems highly likely he will end up retiring, neither he nor the Jazz has gone there yet.

    On the court, it's a blow more stylistically than in terms of quality. Harpring's stats declined last season, but his physicality was one of the defining traits of Jazz basketball. With Kosta Koufos -- who is bigger and more skilled, but far less physical -- replacing him in the rotation, Jazz games will less resemble human pinball this season.

    Incidentally, if Harpring can't play, the Jazz won't be eligible for any kind of medical exception to sidestep the luxury tax, except in the unlikely event he agrees to a buyout for less than the $6.5 million he's owed. They could get an injured player exception from the league worth $6.5 million to sign another player, but it would count against their tax assessment.

    Biggest Strength: Interior Offense


    The Jazz will once again pound the ball down opponents' throats, and few clubs are more qualified to attack this way. Up front, Utah overpowers opponents with the three-pronged attack of Okur, Boozer and Millsap, with each being a potent scorer. Boozer is the best of the bunch when healthy, as he combines tremendous strength and leaping ability with a decent shooting touch and arguably the best weak-hand finishing skills in the game. Okur is no slouch either -- while the 6-11 pivot man tends to hang out on the perimeter, he's one of the best shooting big men in basketball and supplements those points with a steady diet of putbacks.

    Behind them is Millsap, who could win the league's Sixth Man award this year. Despite being a bit undersized and lacking a perimeter game, he's so powerful and athletic around the basket that opponents struggle to contain him. He was phenomenal as a replacement starter for Boozer, racking up 19 straight double-doubles at one point, and should see starter-type minutes despite coming off the bench.

    Finally, don't forget about Koufos. The 7-footer played very well in his limited minutes a year ago and should see a lot more playing time with Harpring and Jarron Collins no longer on the roster.

    That covers the frontcourt, but that's not the whole story. Utah's guards are nearly as good around the basket as the big men. Ronnie Brewer shot 55.8 percent and 50.9 percent the past two seasons largely by feasting on layups; few players are better at cutting off the ball. And at the point, the 6-3 Williams is a strong finisher who relentlessly attacks the paint, either setting up others or getting himself a layup and/or free throws.

    Biggest Weakness: Wing Shooting

    Utah is loaded at point guard and power forward and pretty well set at center too, leaving the wing positions as the major question marks. Those two spots are also largely responsible for the paucity of 3-point shooting the past few seasons, a major weakness since it's allowed opponents to pack in their defenses to stifle Utah's forays into the paint.

    The biggest magnet for criticism is small forward Andrei Kirilenko, who came off the bench for most of last season but may return to a starting role this season. He's making $17 million a year but has played much better as a running power forward his entire career -- probably because he's a 30.8 percent career 3-point shooter and seems like a fish out of water on the perimeter.

    It doesn't help that Brewer has the same issues. He's at 22.9 percent on 3s for his career and rarely even attempts them; when he and Kirilenko share the court together, it lets opponents double the paint with impunity.

    As a result, the Jazz frequently turn to Korver and C.J. Miles. Korver is the best shooter of the bunch but the least skilled in other phases, and his 39.0 percent mark on 3-pointers last season wasn't strong enough for a one-trick pony. Miles got a promotion to the starting lineup but proved disappointing and may relinquish that job this season -- he struggled on defense and too often settled for contested long jumpers.

    The best resolution would be to trade Boozer for a strong marksman on the wings and move Kirilenko to the 4, a move that would put Utah in a much stronger position to succeed offensively. Until such an event happens, however, Utah's wings are unlikely to scare opponents from packing in the defense to stop the power game.

    Outlook

    Much of Utah's projection depends on how the Boozer situation resolves itself, and that's still the biggest unknown heading into the season. Boozer seemed less than enthusiastic about staying in Utah and the feeling appears to be mutual, but his contract and impending free agency makes him extremely difficult to move -- especially if the Jazz are looking mainly to unload his salary obligation.

    In this case, all we can do is evaluate the Jazz based on the current roster. On that basis, it appears they have three-fifths of a championship team. Williams is rock-solid at the point, obviously, and the Boozer-Millsap-Okur-Koufos frontcourt can hang with any in the league offensively. Unfortunately, they didn't get nearly enough from the wing positions last season, and with the same four players returning, it doesn't seem that situation will improve.

    If so, the Jazz will have a top-10 offense but not a top-3 one, and they need it to be the latter to challenge the West's elite because the defense is merely average. Roster changes stemming from the Boozer situation could alter this outlook for better or for worse, but at the moment, their prospects look only marginally better than last season's.

    Prediction: 50-32, 3rd place in Northwest Division, 6th in Western Conference
    "Nobody listens to Turtle."
    -Turtle

  27. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by Surfah View Post
    2009-10 Forecast: Utah Jazz
    I'd say that's a pretty fair evaluation and prediction.

    I have been harping on the back-to-backs for years. One of the reasons the Jazz struggle so much is because Sloan refuses to adapt his rotations for b2b games. As a result, Utah's depth goes to waste, where it would often be an advantage. Utah's schedule is especially difficult in this regard, as they don't play home games on Sundays, which results in a lot of back to back where they are traveling to the second game.
    Last edited by Donuthole; 09-28-2009 at 03:14 PM.
    Prepare to put mustard on those words, for you will soon be consuming them, along with this slice of humble pie that comes direct from the oven of shame set at gas mark “egg on your face”! -- Moss

    There are three rules that I live by: never get less than twelve hours sleep; never play cards with a guy who has the same first name as a city; and never get involved with a woman with a tattoo of a dagger on her body. Now you stick to that, and everything else is cream cheese. --Coach Finstock

  28. #28
    My Mic Sounds Nice falafel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donuthole View Post
    I'd say that's a pretty fair evaluation and prediction.

    I have been harping on the back-to-backs for years. One of the reasons the Jazz struggle so much is because Sloan refuses to adapt his rotations for b2b games. As a result, Utah's depth goes to waste, where it would often be an advantage. Utah's schedule is especially difficult in this regard, as they don't play home games on Sundays, which results in a lot of back to back where they are traveling to the second game.
    I'm in the dark as to how Jerry should adapt his rotation for back to back games. Do you mean he should start his reserves and sit his starters on the b2b?

  29. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by falafel View Post
    I'm in the dark as to how Jerry should adapt his rotation for back to back games. Do you mean he should start his reserves and sit his starters on the b2b?
    No, that is not what I mean. There are a couple ways of approaching it. One way is to play your starters a few less minutes in the first game, in anticipation of the game the next night. This goes hand in hand with pulling them early if the game is a blowout either way (Jerry is notorious for leaving his starters in during blowout losses to "learn a lesson" as well as leaving them in during blowout wins because "no lead is safe").

    Another approach is to give the backups a few more minutes during the second game, as their fresher legs can be a benefit. This can be particularly effective depending on the match ups in the particular games (i.e. rest Deron a little more against a crappy PG, give him more minutes against the All-Star PG, etc. etc.) Sloan, however, pretty much refuses to adapt his rotation for anything other than foul trouble.
    Prepare to put mustard on those words, for you will soon be consuming them, along with this slice of humble pie that comes direct from the oven of shame set at gas mark “egg on your face”! -- Moss

    There are three rules that I live by: never get less than twelve hours sleep; never play cards with a guy who has the same first name as a city; and never get involved with a woman with a tattoo of a dagger on her body. Now you stick to that, and everything else is cream cheese. --Coach Finstock

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sizzle View Post
    Except he also said that he wonders if his ankle will ever be the same again. Gracey, can you help me with the source on that one?
    There was an article in Saturday's DNews where DW said it would never be the same (I know I am not Gracey but I thought I would answer anyway). I didn't take it as being hurt still, rather that it isn't the same as it was when he was 20.
    Get confident, stupid
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