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  • What I Thought In Church Today.

    They announced that a long time member of the ward, who had moved to the neighboring ward a year or two ago, had passed away from cancer. This lady, who is around 35 leaves behind a husband and at least 3 or 4 kids.

    She had found a lump in her breast when her husband was uneployed and they had no insurance. She had to wait to get it checked out until he found a job with insurance. By then it was too late. Her breast cancer was too advanced.

    This is what I thought when they announced her passing in PEC and from the pulpit:

    It it absolutely reprehensible and embarrasing that our society allows people like this to fall through the cracks over the money it would have cost to diagnose and treat this early. The cost society will pay over the next few decades will be much greater than the cost to treat her would have been.

    Probably 95 percent of the people in my ward are against any form of nationalized health care. I have heard comments like, "If somebody dies because they didn't have insurance, that's OK because they die in Christ".

    I find the attitude of my neighbors to be most uncharitable and also very un-Christ-like in this area. Frankly, it mystifies and bothers me.

    That's what I thought.
    "I'm going to go back to CUF now, where the censorship is less, the average IQ is higher, and we don't have to deal with so much of this nonsense. Goodbye." - SoonerCoug

  • #2
    Originally posted by The Fourth Nephite View Post
    They announced that a long time member of the ward, who had moved to the neighboring ward a year or two ago, had passed away from cancer. This lady, who is around 35 leaves behind a husband and at least 3 or 4 kids.

    She had found a lump in her breast when her husband was uneployed and they had no insurance. She had to wait to get it checked out until he found a job with insurance. By then it was too late. Her breast cancer was too advanced.

    This is what I thought when they announced her passing in PEC and from the pulpit:

    It it absolutely reprehensible and embarrasing that our society allows people like this to fall through the cracks over the money it would have cost to diagnose and treat this early. The cost society will pay over the next few decades will be much greater than the cost to treat her would have been.

    Probably 95 percent of the people in my ward are against any form of nationalized health care. I have heard comments like, "If somebody dies because they didn't have insurance, that's OK because they die in Christ".

    I find the attitude of my neighbors to be most uncharitable and also very un-Christ-like in this area. Frankly, it mystifies and bothers me.

    That's what I thought.
    That's awful. I'm sorry. I had an aunt die at about that age who left five children, all under the age of 13. She was my mom's older sister, and her best friend for life. That was almost two decades ago, and the scars never really healed.

    The problem with health care coverage is unnerving and frustrating. It doesn't need to happen that way, no matter what side of the debate you are on. It is evidence that the current menage a trois between government, the private market, and health care providers isn't working the way it needs to.

    I don't think we need to nationalize. I would be happy to do away with employer-provided health care and subsidize individually-owned health care instead. It means we have to accept the provider our employer chooses for us, and if we should happen to be without an employer, we are SOL. We don't need that.
    τὸν ἥλιον ἀνατέλλοντα πλείονες ἢ δυόμενον προσκυνοῦσιν

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    • #3
      Originally posted by The Fourth Nephite View Post
      They announced that a long time member of the ward, who had moved to the neighboring ward a year or two ago, had passed away from cancer. This lady, who is around 35 leaves behind a husband and at least 3 or 4 kids.

      She had found a lump in her breast when her husband was uneployed and they had no insurance. She had to wait to get it checked out until he found a job with insurance. By then it was too late. Her breast cancer was too advanced.

      This is what I thought when they announced her passing in PEC and from the pulpit:

      It it absolutely reprehensible and embarrasing that our society allows people like this to fall through the cracks over the money it would have cost to diagnose and treat this early. The cost society will pay over the next few decades will be much greater than the cost to treat her would have been.

      Probably 95 percent of the people in my ward are against any form of nationalized health care. I have heard comments like, "If somebody dies because they didn't have insurance, that's OK because they die in Christ".

      I find the attitude of my neighbors to be most uncharitable and also very un-Christ-like in this area. Frankly, it mystifies and bothers me.

      That's what I thought.
      I am sorry for your friend passing. Medicaid for women and children is really easy to get when the breadwinner is unemployed. Not to mention every hospital has extensive charity programs.
      "Be a philosopher. A man can compromise to gain a point. It has become apparent that a man can, within limits, follow his inclinations within the arms of the Church if he does so discreetly." - The Walking Drum

      "And here’s what life comes down to—not how many years you live, but how many of those years are filled with bullshit that doesn’t amount to anything to satisfy the requirements of some dickhead you’ll never get the pleasure of punching in the face." – Adam Carolla

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Mormon Red Death View Post
        I am sorry for your friend passing. Medicaid for women and children is really easy to get when the breadwinner is unemployed. Not to mention every hospital has extensive charity programs.
        The death is tragic, but I would say the same thing. At least in our health system, there are paid personnel who get uninsured people enrolled in medicaid once the cancer is diagnosed. And if not medicaid, a hospital-based charitable organization.
        "...you pointy-headed autopsy nerd. Do you think it's possible for you to post without using words like "hilarious," "absurd," "canard," and "truther"? Your bare assertions do not make it so. Maybe your reasoning is too stunted and your vocabulary is too limited to go without these epithets."
        "You are an intemperate, unscientific poster who makes light of very serious matters.”
        - SeattleUte

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        • #5
          Since I first posted, I have learned some additional info: the husband was unemployed, then he took a lesser job than he had previously. He made too much for Medicaid but his job didn't offer insurance. He then found a better job with insurance, but by then it was too late.

          Personally, I would make the following trade:

          Reasonable caps on damages due to malpractice and negligence for universal coverage. I think part of the healthcare problem is doctors have such high insurance costs and those costs are passed to us.
          Last edited by The Fourth Nephite; 01-21-2013, 08:27 AM.
          "I'm going to go back to CUF now, where the censorship is less, the average IQ is higher, and we don't have to deal with so much of this nonsense. Goodbye." - SoonerCoug

          Comment


          • #6
            I wonder why the Church didn't help. That seems like a perfect use for fast offering funds.
            "Yeah, but never trust a Ph.D who has an MBA as well. The PhD symbolizes intelligence and discipline. The MBA symbolizes lust for power." -- Katy Lied

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by The Fourth Nephite View Post
              They announced that a long time member of the ward, who had moved to the neighboring ward a year or two ago, had passed away from cancer. This lady, who is around 35 leaves behind a husband and at least 3 or 4 kids.

              She had found a lump in her breast when her husband was uneployed and they had no insurance. She had to wait to get it checked out until he found a job with insurance. By then it was too late. Her breast cancer was too advanced.

              This is what I thought when they announced her passing in PEC and from the pulpit:

              It it absolutely reprehensible and embarrasing that our society allows people like this to fall through the cracks over the money it would have cost to diagnose and treat this early. The cost society will pay over the next few decades will be much greater than the cost to treat her would have been.

              Probably 95 percent of the people in my ward are against any form of nationalized health care. I have heard comments like, "If somebody dies because they didn't have insurance, that's OK because they die in Christ".

              I find the attitude of my neighbors to be most uncharitable and also very un-Christ-like in this area. Frankly, it mystifies and bothers me.

              That's what I thought.
              Frankly, it's too bad she didn't go to the doctor and get it diagnosed and have the Church pay for the exam through welfare funds.

              IMO, that is the reason they exist.

              I don't know what she would have done for treatment at that point, but I think the diagnostic exam would have been paid for through welfare funds.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by wuapinmon View Post
                I wonder why the Church didn't help. That seems like a perfect use for fast offering funds.
                My guess is the church didn't know until it was too late. Also, the area we live in is very economically depressed. I know that the Bishop feels like we never have enough fast offering funds.

                Does the church routinely help people with large medical bills?
                "I'm going to go back to CUF now, where the censorship is less, the average IQ is higher, and we don't have to deal with so much of this nonsense. Goodbye." - SoonerCoug

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by The Fourth Nephite View Post
                  My guess is the church didn't know until it was too late. Also, the area we live in is very economically depressed. I know that the Bishop feels like we never have enough fast offering funds.

                  Does the church routinely help people with large medical bills?
                  I don't know about routine, but I know that in New Orleans we did.
                  "Yeah, but never trust a Ph.D who has an MBA as well. The PhD symbolizes intelligence and discipline. The MBA symbolizes lust for power." -- Katy Lied

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by The Fourth Nephite View Post
                    They announced that a long time member of the ward, who had moved to the neighboring ward a year or two ago, had passed away from cancer. This lady, who is around 35 leaves behind a husband and at least 3 or 4 kids.

                    She had found a lump in her breast when her husband was uneployed and they had no insurance. She had to wait to get it checked out until he found a job with insurance. By then it was too late. Her breast cancer was too advanced.

                    This is what I thought when they announced her passing in PEC and from the pulpit:

                    It it absolutely reprehensible and embarrasing that our society allows people like this to fall through the cracks over the money it would have cost to diagnose and treat this early. The cost society will pay over the next few decades will be much greater than the cost to treat her would have been.

                    Probably 95 percent of the people in my ward are against any form of nationalized health care. I have heard comments like, "If somebody dies because they didn't have insurance, that's OK because they die in Christ".

                    I find the attitude of my neighbors to be most uncharitable and also very un-Christ-like in this area. Frankly, it mystifies and bothers me.

                    That's what I thought.
                    I am sorry for your loss. I am probably calloused but I think the wife is more culpable than society. I really feel sorry for the husband and think it will be really hard for him to live with the guilt that his lack of "adequate" employment was a cause for this sad state of events but I think that there were means available, either through family, more comfortable family members or even the Church, for this to not have had to occur.

                    Saying all that I also dislike the efforts to affilaite the lack of Christlike love with those opposed to socialized medicine. It strikes me as petty. With me you are more persuasive when you keep it on societal costs by saying we will actually pay more $$ out in the long run.

                    However, I gurantee you that if send in the story to President Obama there is a good chance the story could make it into a State of the Union or some such speech.
                    Do Your Damnedest In An Ostentatious Manner All The Time!
                    -General George S. Patton

                    I'm choosing to mostly ignore your fatuity here and instead overwhelm you with so much data that you'll maybe, just maybe, realize that you have reams to read on this subject before you can contribute meaningfully to any conversation on this topic.
                    -DOCTOR Wuap

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I always find it interesting to see who will and who won't ask for help.

                      Now - I'm not sure where this family fits in that continuum. So this commentary may or may not be about them.

                      But I've seen folks in our area who need help for EVERYTHING! They need food, they need a repair done on their home...sink...car...fence..., they need a ride somewhere, they need some new clothes, they need a babysitter or daycare, even money for a trip to visit family. And they aren't afraid to ask every and anyone for this help. And it gets to the point where folks are tired of them because they are such a drain...all. the. time.

                      Then you've got other folks who are really struggling and could use some help but either won't ask for it or won't accept it. They are just making do, they don't have the skill to make certain repairs and could use some help but just go without for a time. They are the first to help others and are nice enough folks that everyone would love to help them, but they just don't know about the need...or the family won't accept it.

                      Anyway - I'm just rambling now.

                      But I tend to wonder if this particular family was one of those independent types that generally does what it takes to take care of themselves and wouldn't ask for help...

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Goatnapper'96 View Post
                        I am sorry for your loss. I am probably calloused but I think the wife is more culpable than society. I really feel sorry for the husband and think it will be really hard for him to live with the guilt that his lack of "adequate" employment was a cause for this sad state of events but I think that there were means available, either through family, more comfortable family members or even the Church, for this to not have had to occur.

                        Saying all that I also dislike the efforts to affilaite the lack of Christlike love with those opposed to socialized medicine. It strikes me as petty. With me you are more persuasive when you keep it on societal costs by saying we will actually pay more $$ out in the long run.

                        However, I gurantee you that if send in the story to President Obama there is a good chance the story could make it into a State of the Union or some such speech.
                        With socialized medicine this story turns into: "they didn't catch it in time because the wait time to be seen was so long"

                        Sent from my SGH-T839 using Tapatalk 2
                        "Be a philosopher. A man can compromise to gain a point. It has become apparent that a man can, within limits, follow his inclinations within the arms of the Church if he does so discreetly." - The Walking Drum

                        "And here’s what life comes down to—not how many years you live, but how many of those years are filled with bullshit that doesn’t amount to anything to satisfy the requirements of some dickhead you’ll never get the pleasure of punching in the face." – Adam Carolla

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Mormon Red Death View Post
                          With socialized medicine this story turns into: "they didn't catch it in time because the wait time to be seen was so long"

                          Sent from my SGH-T839 using Tapatalk 2
                          There is no question that reality is often a long way from what the perfumed princes promise us they will deliver to us in exchange for their vote. Then when they are unable to shield us from the pitfalls of mortal existence they will do something creative like blame the affluent whose capacity to reserve such help only for themselves is the root of all evil!

                          Sooner is still looking for his god.

                          As I said in my perspective, which might be harsh, the woman is to blame for not more pro-actively seeking resources to deal with the situation. Let her motivation be ignorance, pride or perhaps the genuine concern of her beloved husband's ego/pride. I think the concept of encouraging self-sufficiency can be a two edged sword.
                          Do Your Damnedest In An Ostentatious Manner All The Time!
                          -General George S. Patton

                          I'm choosing to mostly ignore your fatuity here and instead overwhelm you with so much data that you'll maybe, just maybe, realize that you have reams to read on this subject before you can contribute meaningfully to any conversation on this topic.
                          -DOCTOR Wuap

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Uninsured patients have pretty good access to health care and even very expensive health care (heart surgery, cancer treatment) in Utah.

                            Sure they're going to be stuck with enough of a bill that they will wish they had health insurance but they can make payments that are based on reasonable percentage of their income.

                            However I agree with your larger point 4N that it is a shame in a country as rich as ours that fear of huge medical bills keeps people from seeking timely care in so many cases. I see it all the time.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              At the risk of getting flamed, I will mention the benefits of a woman having her own insurance through an employer. That might not fit in well with Mormon culture but there is real benefit nonetheless. I work with many female professionals, the great majority are married and mothers. My teenage daughter is evaluating post-HS education plans and careers. She's also a Type I diabetic and will have a greater need for insurance than many. And that is a factor in the options she's considering. Her parents are not counseling her to "just marry a nice LDS guy and not worry about it because it will always be his responsibility".

                              I agree that the American health services and insurance systems need to be fixed. But we also need to undertand how it works and the benefit of having a woman having her own insurance through an employer because that is how it works now.
                              “Not the victory but the action. Not the goal but the game. In the deed the glory.”
                              "All things are measured against Nebraska." falafel

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