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  • #1

    Modesty in children

    This is something my wife feels incredibly strongly about. See this link for an overview (and I apologize if this has been discussed to death):

    http://www.feministmormonhousewives....nd-the-spirit/

    We are telling our babies to think about their bodies, and to think about covering them up, and to feel guilty for wanting to wear an Orange Tank Top because they might encourage sexual attention from others.

    What?

    Our babies should never feel guilty for encouraging sexual attraction (of sickos). They literally can not purposefully “encourage” something they don’t want and don’t understand. But that is what “immodest” means.
    I am not sure where I stand here. On the one hand, I do agree that the only people who think a 6-year-old in a tank top is sexually attractive are pedophiles. On the other hand, there are definitely pedophiles out there.

    And on one hand, I get that pre-teens really shouldn't have to worry about modesty, but I understand how learning these principles at age 7 makes it easier when you're age 17.

    And on the final hand, I'm a dude (as has been previously stated). In the same way I don't feel comfortable judging women who breastfeed in public (thanks, CB), I don't feel comfortable judging the worthiness of a female (especially a minor) on how she's dressed. It feels creepy.

    To top it off, we welcomed a new addition to our family back in February, and she happens to be a little girl. So I kind of feel like I need to figure it out pretty soon.

    Any thoughts?
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  • #2
    I have 2 little girls and I'm ok with them wearing tank tops and sundresses and stuff like that right now, but they're both under 5.

    My wife and I have talked about how when they're teenagers we don't want them wearing sleeveless stuff and tank tops, but at the same time you probably have to encourage them to dress modestly when tehy're little so that message comes through appropriately. I don't know when the "right" age is.
    Will donate kidney for B12 membership.

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    • #3
      We haven't always been real rigid with this - but my general thoughts are that whatever is acceptable to wear at age 6 ought to be acceptable at age 16. With the idea being that there shouldn't be a sudden change in dress code - it should make sense all along the way.

      So our daughters don't wear really short shorts or really low cut shirts. Tank tops are OK, but spaghetti straps usually come with a camisole or t-shirt underneath. Once dresses or skirts get much more than a few inches above the knee, we hint at the fact that they've been outgrown and they don't last much longer. The same happens with shirts when it gets to the point that their belly is showing all the time during normal wear (not when raising their hand or reaching above their heads for something.) I've never considered myself a prude or overly stuck on modesty - but do discourage my girls from dressing like hoochie mamas.

      In some ways the concept occurs to me that this is a lot like pornography. Modest dress can be difficult to describe, but you know it when you see it.

      Reading the story from the friend - she describes it not as a tank top, but as spaghetti straps and too short. I don't know that my wife or I would throw a fit if our daughter showed up with that after going shopping. But I will admit that I wouldn't be a fan of my daughter running around in a short shirt with spaghetti straps. OK - maybe I am a prude.

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      • #4
        I don't care if my 7 y/o girl wears tank tops and sundresses now and I won't care if she wears them in 10 years as a teenager. I think people can handle seeing other peoples' shoulders.

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        • #5
          I think we worry about things that we should not worry about. Is my 4 year old duaghter who wears three finger strap dress to church going to dress like a slut when she is 14. No! Lot of Moms at church believe that.

          I believe that in the "Mormon culture" there are a great deal amount of over zealous prude members who are damaging their children by being too worried about anything that has to do with Sex. The word itself is Taboo to many. In my home every topic is open for discussion. Nothing is Taboo. I feel the more open they are to you now the more open they will be as teenagers and adults. If topics are off the table at home they will seek elswhere to satisfy their curiosity.



          BTW I have 4 girls from 9 years to 6 months
          ( FYI I most likely wrote that incoherently and will be properly corrected forthwith. Thanks)

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          • #6
            Shoulders are not sexy at any age.
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            • #7
              Originally posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
              Shoulders are not sexy at any age.
              :thumbsup:
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              • #8
                Our daughter #2 started coloring her hair at age 8. I told the wife that she's gonna get bored with that and by 12 will start into other beauty modifications. She did. Now at 20 she's a tank top, jean cutoff girl, whose dresses are too short for church. My wife says I should be happy she goes...

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Danimal View Post
                  I don't care if my 7 y/o girl wears tank tops and sundresses now and I won't care if she wears them in 10 years as a teenager. I think people can handle seeing other peoples' shoulders.
                  Hell, our 15-year-old wears bikinis (just not to church stuff). My wife says something about shorts if her butt cheeks are showing, but we're pretty lax about "modesty" in dress. I guess we just don't see a big deal in bare mid-thighs and shoulders. I think our culture's "modesty" standards are pretty arbitrary.
                  If we disagree on something, it's because you're wrong.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by SoCalCoug View Post
                    Hell, our 15-year-old wears bikinis (just not to church stuff). My wife says something about shorts if her butt cheeks are showing, but we're pretty lax about "modesty" in dress. I guess we just don't see a big deal in bare mid-thighs and shoulders. I think our culture's "modesty" standards are pretty arbitrary.
                    I am with you. Self-esteem and self-respect are better guards against immorality than any religious dress code could ever be. I am not saying those that encourage modest dress are not also helping to develop self esteem and self respect but I just don't get hung up on shoulders, thighs, and bare midriffs.
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                    • #11
                      I guess the question is why choose to wear clothes that bare shoulders, upper thighs and midriffs? At what point does comfort and practicality cross over the line into something else?
                      Everything in life is an approximation.

                      http://twitter.com/CougarStats

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Flystripper View Post
                        I am with you. Self-esteem and self-respect are better guards against immorality than any religious dress code could ever be. I am not saying those that encourage modest dress are not also helping to develop self esteem and self respect but I just don't get hung up on shoulders, thighs, and bare midriffs.
                        But you have to think about all those teen boys who will go right for the little factory when they see a bare shoulder!
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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Y84it View Post
                          I think we worry about things that we should not worry about. Is my 4 year old duaghter who wears three finger strap dress to church going to dress like a slut when she is 14. No! Lot of Moms at church believe that.

                          I believe that in the "Mormon culture" there are a great deal amount of over zealous prude members who are damaging their children by being too worried about anything that has to do with Sex. The word itself is Taboo to many. In my home every topic is open for discussion. Nothing is Taboo. I feel the more open they are to you now the more open they will be as teenagers and adults. If topics are off the table at home they will seek elswhere to satisfy their curiosity.



                          BTW I have 4 girls from 9 years to 6 months
                          As the father of a pre-teen (12) this is one of my biggest concerns right now. I met my wife and daughter for dinner last night only to walk in to see her wearing a spaghetti strap tank top and booty shorts accompanied by her two friends wearing the same (daughter, not wife). "Mormon culture" or not I think if you walked in to a restaurant 3 years from now to see your 12 year-old wearing that you might think differently (I was initially upset that my wife had let her leave the house that way but she later explained that she had picked them up from dance rehearsal so it made sense). I made no mention of it at dinner and said nothing to my wife until we were home but it was still offputting. She has developed much faster than her friends and has received a ton of attention and is really loving it right now. We are both pleased and worried. Boys as old as 16 have made comments to her (her friends actually were the ones to share that bit of information with us last night). Is immodest dress a "gateway drug"? Probably not given my daughter's love of dance and gymnastics and her feeling comfortable about her body but I think any family should set limits for modesty.
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                          • #14
                            Just this morning Gidget was helping our oldest (7) get ready for school. After a week in the 60's it's supposed to hit 90 today. My daughter wanted to wear a tank top and Gidget said no. I wasn't present for this conversation but Gidget asked me afterward if she did the right thing. I told her that I generally agreed. Not so much that the tank top was inappropriate, just inappropriate for school.
                            "Nobody listens to Turtle."
                            -Turtle
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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Blueintheface View Post
                              As the father of a pre-teen (12) this is one of my biggest concerns right now. I met my wife and daughter for dinner last night only to walk in to see her wearing a spaghetti strap tank top and booty shorts accompanied by her two friends wearing the same (daughter, not wife). "Mormon culture" or not I think if you walked in to a restaurant 3 years from now to see your 12 year-old wearing that you might think differently (I was initially upset that my wife had let her leave the house that way but she later explained that she had picked them up from dance rehearsal so it made sense). I made no mention of it at dinner and said nothing to my wife until we were home but it was still offputting. She has developed much faster than her friends and has received a ton of attention and is really loving it right now. We are both pleased and worried. Boys as old as 16 have made comments to her (her friends actually were the ones to share that bit of information with us last night). Is immodest dress a "gateway drug"? Probably not given my daughter's love of dance and gymnastics and her feeling comfortable about her body but I think any family should set limits for modesty.
                              Of course there should be limits. But they should be openly discussed in a respectful dialog on why dressing a certain way matters. Not just told they dressed like a slut go change now. (Which a lot of parents are doing) Again open discussions.
                              ( FYI I most likely wrote that incoherently and will be properly corrected forthwith. Thanks)

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