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  • Sugar Bowl v. Cowboys Classic

    I thought I would be mature enough to avoid bringing this up, but I constantly surprise myself.

    Which win is bigger?

    My first inclination would be to vote for the Sugar Bowl win. Season-ending wins should have a bit more weight than season-opening wins, since they've had twelve games to filter out the pretenders. Then again, a game to open the season features two teams with everything on the line. Who's to say Alabama doesn't play a little better if all of the marbles were on the table and there was still a chance to hoist the crystal trophy?

    The ability to underestimate an opponent is not absent on either side, but you can't be thinking about next week's opponent when this week's opponent is your last of the year. Then there's the national stage. A prestigious bowl game on ABC vs. a season-opening "Classic" on ESPN. Point to the Sugar Bowl.

    Then there's the quality of the opponent. Oklahoma was ranked higher and featured a Heisman trophy winner. Bama had been the number one team in the land for most of the season before dropping against the eventual champs. Critics will rightly look in the coming weeks to see how Oklahoma fares to evaluate how good they really were, but it isn't entirely fair to judge the strength of a blow by how quickly an opponent recovers from it.

    All things said, the two are different enough that it's fair just to call them both big wins and not claim one greater than the other. In the end, the magnitude of the respective victories will be determined by their end results, and we've yet to see the full breadth of the impact of either win. If BYU ends up making noise this year, that adds weight to their win. Then again, some of that weight probably belongs to the Sugar Bowl win. Truth be told, BYU does owe Utah. The Sugar Bowl victory set BYU up to make some noise. Then again, Utah is no less indebted to the teams that set the national stage for their run. That includes the Tulane and Marshall teams of 98 and 99, as well as, yes, the BYU teams of 1984, 1996, and 2001, each of which forced voters and corporate managers alike to define the system and the parameters by which a team like Utah could make their runs.

    (By the way, isn't it amazing how fickle a thing perception is? At the beginning of 2008, BYU was clearly the best non-BCS team out there. By the end of the season, it was obviously Utah. One game into the 2009 season, BYU is in the discussion for not just a BCS game, but the TITLE game. And all it will take for that talk to vaporize with two snickers and a chuckle is one letdown against one of a number of opponents more than capable of handing BYU a loss. Gotta love media.)

    In the end, though, the most important factor in the discussion is this: I am a BYU fan, and therefore unable to objectively consider the issue without bias. Due to this factor above all others, I hereby declare the victory over Oklahoma to be the biggest win in MWC history. Huzzah.
    τὸν ἥλιον ἀνατέλλοντα πλείονες ἢ δυόμενον προσκυνοῦσιν

  • #2
    Utah needed 12 wins for the opportunity to play in the Sugar Bowl. BYU had to average 9 wins and attendance of 66k over Bronco's first four seasons for the opportunity to play in the Cowboy Classic.

    I will not discount BYU's win over Oklahoma, but Utah accomplished more on the road to the Sugar Bowl victory.
    "I don't know the origin of said bitch booming."-Art Vandelay
    "Hot Lunch posted awhile back on this. He knows more than anyone except for maybe BO."-Seattle Ute

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    • #3
      Utah's win over Alabama is the bigger win. And quite honestly, more impressive overall game. Utah dominated in all areas including the scoreboard while BYU eeked out a 1 point win. Plus BCS bowl victories will always be worth more than any other game, including pay day games to start the season. I also think Utah dominating Alabama gave BYU confidence going into this game. I could be completely wrong, but I got that feeling listening to everyone post game. Without Utah doing what they did, there might not have been a BYU doing what they did.
      A man who views the world the same at fifty as he did at twenty has wasted thirty years of his life. - Mohammad Ali

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      • #4
        I have to agree that the Sugar Bowl win was probably bigger (post-season, harder to get to, more domination, etc.). BUT I do think that the effect of the two games together is much greater than the games individually. If anything, I think our win on Saturday enhances the Utes' win last season that much more, and their win last season gives us a higher starting place in terms of respect.
        Awesomeness now has a name. Let me introduce myself.

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        • #5
          I think both were big wins for the conference. Especially as the last time people saw the MWC was Utah beating Alabama, then the first time they see them this year is BYU beating Oklahoma. Coupled together it was a great strike for the MWC.

          In terms of just a win the SUGAR BOWL was a lot bigger, it ended the season and pushed the Utes into the top 5. Even the most die hard prognosticators here are saying this BYU win will push them to the edge of the top 10.
          Get confident, stupid
          -landpoke

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          • #6
            Originally posted by nikuman View Post
            I have to agree that the Sugar Bowl win was probably bigger (post-season, harder to get to, more domination, etc.). BUT I do think that the effect of the two games together is much greater than the games individually. If anything, I think our win on Saturday enhances the Utes' win last season that much more, and their win last season gives us a higher starting place in terms of respect.
            My thoughts exactly. It makes so much difference to have at least two teams in the conference achieving consistently at a high level as opposed to porducing one good team every few years.

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            • #7
              One was in September and one was in January.

              Is there really a debate ?

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              • #8
                I posted some of this Saturday night but it was buried in the flurry of happy posts that evening.

                I missed most of the middle part of the game because I was on a plane, but during the drive home from the airport I listened to - gasp! - ESPN Radio. The host of the show was amazingly favorable to the MWC and to BYU's achievement, arguing that "anyone who really knows college football" knows that the MWC is a conference on the rise and that BYU, Utah and TCU are "three of the finest football programs in the country right now." He pointed out that this season, BYU would have to run the table to make it to the BCS and said that if they did that, they'd deserve the bid - and an NC shot - because they would have to beat Utah and TCU to get there. He mentioned the Sugar Bowl prominently and said he hopes that at the end of the season people "remember what happened." How can our conference get better props than that?

                Hey, even Bronco (as many of you know, not my favorite coach), was asked on the air what this win meant for his program. He said time would tell about that, but that the win was important for "our league," which "deserves respect," or words pretty close to those. So good for Bronco. Maybe I will ease up on him a little . . . .

                Anyway, everybody in the MWC, but especially the top three programs, looks good here. And we Utes have a chance to beat the now nationally-prominent and respected Cougs at the end of the season. The rivalry game may well mean a lot. So all MWC fans, and especially Ute fans, ought to be feeling just fine about BYU's fine, hard-fought victory.

                Having said that, the two wins are comparable in terms of the notoriety they bring to the conference, but otherwise are apples and oranges. One was the culmination of a truly historic season, the other is the sensational beginning of a season. Both are games for the ages, that's for sure.
                “There is a great deal of difference in believing something still, and believing it again.”
                ― W.H. Auden


                "God made the angels to show His splendour - as He made animals for innocence and plants for their simplicity. But men and women He made to serve Him wittily, in the tangle of their minds."
                -- Robert Bolt, A Man for All Seasons


                "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
                --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

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                • #9
                  in strict terms, the Sugar Bowl was the much bigger win. It's not even close. This one was a sloppy game between two unproven teams. No one really knows whether both or either of these teams will be even ranked by the end of the year.

                  But in terms of implication, this one was critical both for BYU and for the MWC. Utah has already been accepted as a big-league player for quite some time, but BYU hadn't really had the opportunity to prove as much in the BCS era. So in that respect, this was more important for BYU's program than the Sugar Bowl was for the Utes'. The Sugar bowl was simply confirming what the Utes knew and others suspected; whereas this was so far out of left field that even the BYU fans didn't believe it was possible.

                  For the MWC, this was no less significant than the Sugar Bowl win. As the others have said, the two work in tandem to beg the question, "How many times do we have to prove ourselves?"

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                  • #10
                    Sugar Bowl is substantially bigger imho.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Babs View Post
                      The Sugar bowl was simply confirming what the Utes knew and others suspected; whereas this was so far out of left field that even the BYU fans didn't believe it was possible.
                      let's not forget that most people didn't believe Utah was going to win, either. Including most of the Ute fans on this board.
                      Fitter. Happier. More Productive.

                      sigpic

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                      • #12
                        The answer to this question is that we don't know yet. I know that sounds like a cop out answer, but it's a fact.

                        With this win, BYU can play for the National Championship if they take care of business the rest of the season. Do I think they will? No, I don't. But I didn't think they had a chance in hell of beating the Sooners or even staying with 30 points of the Sooners. If they go undefeated the remainder of the season with wins against FSU, Utah and TCU - depending on how those teams play and Oklahoma plays the rest of the season, a national championship is a real possibility due to this one win.

                        If they don't go undefeated the rest of the way, Utah's Sugar Bowl win is bigger.
                        I'm like LeBron James.
                        -mpfunk

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                        • #13
                          Those who say Alabama played half-heartedly in the Sug have a point. And those who say week one games are unknown and sloppy (plus in this case, minus Bradford and Unga) have a point. And those who say the 5 week layover before BCS bowl games kills momentum and chemistry, also have a point.

                          For those reasons I am most impressed with mid and late season wins like Florida over Alabama, Texas over Oklahoma and Utah over TCU. Two teams running at full throttle while everything still means everything.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by TripletDaddy View Post
                            let's not forget that most people didn't believe Utah was going to win, either. Including most of the Ute fans on this board.
                            but it was accepted as within the realm of possibility. What unfolded Saturday was not.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by smokymountainrain View Post
                              The answer to this question is that we don't know yet. I know that sounds like a cop out answer, but it's a fact.
                              right. In the long run, this could be the bigger win. Both teams could go undefeated, for example. Based on what I saw on the field, that's not likely going to be the case, but if it happened, this game would leapfrog the sugar bowl.

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