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tooblue
12-11-2008, 08:04 AM
http://proxy.espn.go.com/ncf/bowls08/bracket

Very interesting ... It simulates best 16 team matchups -- I chose the BCS rankings and in the first round OU would play BYU and Utah would play TCU!

HuskyFreeNorthwest
12-11-2008, 09:09 AM
I used about 7 different options in last night, only once did BYU advance and that was with an upset over the 2 seed Oklahoma. It seems far to upset prone, maybe as a way to encourage playoff talk.

As mentioned I tried 7 options last night and every time at least 1 of the top 4 seeds lost. On one attempt Florida, Oklahoma and USC all lost their first round games.

cougjunkie
12-11-2008, 12:05 PM
I seeded them myself as follows:

1. Oklahoma
2. Florida
3. Texas
4. USC
5. Alabama
6. Penn State
7. Texas Tech
8. Utah
9. Ohio State
10. Boise State
11. Oklahoma State
12. Cincinatti
13. TCU
14. Georgia
15. BYU
16. Virginia Tech

First round:

Virginia tech upset Oklahoma
Utah beat Ohio State
Alabama beat Cincinatti
USC beat TCU
Georgia upset Texas
Penn State beat Oklahoma state
Texas Tech over BOise
Florida over BYU

Second round:
Utah over Virginia Tech
Alabama over USC
Georgia over Penn State
Texas Tech over Florida

Semifinals
Alabama over Utah
Texas Tech over Georgia

Championship:
Alabama over Texas Tech.

smokymountainrain
12-11-2008, 12:14 PM
I seeded them myself as follows:

1. Oklahoma
2. Florida
3. Texas
4. USC
5. Alabama
6. Penn State
7. Texas Tech
8. Utah
9. Ohio State
10. Boise State
11. Oklahoma State
12. Cincinatti
13. TCU
14. Georgia
15. BYU
16. Virginia Tech

First round:

Virginia tech upset Oklahoma
Utah beat Ohio State
Alabama beat Cincinatti
USC beat TCU
Georgia upset Texas
Penn State beat Oklahoma state
Texas Tech over BOise
Florida over BYU

Second round:
Utah over Virginia Tech
Alabama over USC
Georgia over Penn State
Texas Tech over Florida

Semifinals
Alabama over Utah
Texas Tech over Georgia

Championship:
Alabama over Texas Tech.

Texas Tech is getting absolutely screwed by the BCS this season. As I was reading through your brackets, I just kept thinking none of this surprises me, although I think Tech would beat Bama in a championship game.

Over the course of the season, Tech was as good as anybody.

Babs
12-11-2008, 12:20 PM
Texas Tech is getting absolutely screwed by the BCS this season. As I was reading through your brackets, I just kept thinking none of this surprises me, although I think Tech would be Bama in a championship game.

Over the course of the season, Tech was as good as anybody.

I'll be surprised if they win their bowl game.

smokymountainrain
12-11-2008, 12:27 PM
I'll be surprised if they win their bowl game.

What makes you think that? I'm sincerely interested in why you feel that way because you obviously follow the Big 12 much closer than I do.

Based on what I saw, they were as dominant as anybody in the country this year. Nearly all of their wins were blowouts and they beat a great Texas team.

Your Sooners took them to the woodshed, but outside of that, they looked great to me.

In my opinion, if they were to lose their bowl game it would simply be because they don't care. I should add that I have always hated Tech, so this is not the opinion of a homer by any means.

Babs
12-11-2008, 12:50 PM
What makes you think that? I'm sincerely interested in why you feel that way because you obviously follow the Big 12 much closer than I do.

Based on what I saw, they were as dominant as anybody in the country this year. Nearly all of their wins were blowouts and they beat a great Texas team.

Your Sooners took them to the woodshed, but outside of that, they looked great to me.


Did you watch them against Baylor in their last game of the season? They had to score two touchdowns in the final ten minutes to come from behind and win. Against *Baylor.*

I think that:
1. Tech's vulnerabilities have been exposed, and Ole Miss can take advantage of that.

2. Harrell been humiliated in highly publicized fashion and has gone from being the Heisman frontrunner to not even garnering an invite to New York. He's lost his confidence and his passion.

3. Tech has been passed over for the BCS and are stuck playing in the Cotton Bowl, which is pretty sorry consolation for them at this point. They're ranked 4th in the computers, but they're pitted against #25 Mississippi. It's going to be hard enough for UT to get "up" for the Fiesta Bowl; Tech has to get "up" for a outdated, run-down venue in innercity Dallas against cut-rate competition.

4. Ole Miss won by stopping Tebow and his D, blitzing like mad. They can stop Harrell and his less-talented Oline. (Granted, they got some help from Florida and the refs, but still, if they stopped Tebow...)

That's my take, fwiw. I'm curious what the other, better informed than BG, Big12 followers here think of the matchup.

smokymountainrain
12-11-2008, 01:03 PM
Did you watch them against Baylor in their last game of the season? They had to score two touchdowns in the final ten minutes to come from behind and win. Against *Baylor.*

I did see the Baylor game - it was a pathetic performance, but most (I think Nebraska played them close as well) of their other wins were won in impressive fashion. That said, if you want to point to the Baylor game as a reason, I can buy that.

I think that:
1. Tech's vulnerabilities have been exposed, and Ole Miss can take advantage of that.

2. Harrell been humiliated in highly publicized fashion and has gone from being the Heisman frontrunner to not even garnering an invite to New York. He's lost his confidence and his passion.

3. Tech has been passed over for the BCS and are stuck playing in the Cotton Bowl, which is pretty sorry consolation for them at this point. They're ranked 4th in the computers, but they're pitted against #25 Mississippi. It's going to be hard enough for UT to get "up" for the Fiesta Bowl; Tech has to get "up" for a outdated, run-down venue in innercity Dallas against cut-rate competition.

4. Ole Miss won by stopping Tebow and his D, blitzing like mad. They can stop Harrell and his less-talented Oline. (Granted, they got some help from Florida and the refs, but still, if they stopped Tebow...)

That's my take, fwiw. I'm curious what the other, better informed than BG, Big12 followers here think of the matchup.

Thanks for the response, I disagree with you an all points except #3. But again, I wouldn't have asked if I didn't respect your opinion and your reasons certainly do have merit.

If Tech can overcome the disappointment of playing in the Cotton Bowl against the #25 team in the country, I think they win by 3-4 TDs.

cougjunkie
12-11-2008, 01:05 PM
Did you watch them against Baylor in their last game of the season? They had to score two touchdowns in the final ten minutes to come from behind and win. Against *Baylor.*

I think that:
1. Tech's vulnerabilities have been exposed, and Ole Miss can take advantage of that.

2. Harrell been humiliated in highly publicized fashion and has gone from being the Heisman frontrunner to not even garnering an invite to New York. He's lost his confidence and his passion.

3. Tech has been passed over for the BCS and are stuck playing in the Cotton Bowl, which is pretty sorry consolation for them at this point. They're ranked 4th in the computers, but they're pitted against #25 Mississippi. It's going to be hard enough for UT to get "up" for the Fiesta Bowl; Tech has to get "up" for a outdated, run-down venue in innercity Dallas against cut-rate competition.

4. Ole Miss won by stopping Tebow and his D, blitzing like mad. They can stop Harrell and his less-talented Oline. (Granted, they got some help from Florida and the refs, but still, if they stopped Tebow...)

That's my take, fwiw. I'm curious what the other, better informed than BG, Big12 followers here think of the matchup.

So you are going to talk about a let down in the cotton bowl but not give credit for a let down against Baylor after getting blasted by Oklahoma and knowing that your national title hopes are dead? Of course they had a let down against Baylor. Also the fact that Harrell is not in New York is a travesty.

Babs
12-11-2008, 01:21 PM
So you are going to talk about a let down in the cotton bowl but not give credit for a let down against Baylor after getting blasted by Oklahoma and knowing that your national title hopes are dead? Of course they had a let down against Baylor. Also the fact that Harrell is not in New York is a travesty.

Harrell in New York...well, there are only three spots. I had really wanted to see Chase Daniel there, because he truly personifies the ostensible definition of the award. But his numbers just aren't there this year.

And of course the Baylor loss was in part a result of the letdown from the previous week. I never said it wasn't.

HuskyFreeNorthwest
12-11-2008, 01:30 PM
Harrell in New York...well, there are only three spots. I had really wanted to see Chase Daniel there, because he truly personifies the ostensible definition of the award. But his numbers just aren't there this year.

And of course the Baylor loss was in part a result of the letdown from the previous week. I never said it wasn't.

College football is such a fun sport, remember in September when everything Chase Daniel did was news? I remember fondly his faux-hawk, and wasn't he texting some D-list celeb that made the rounds too.

cougjunkie
12-11-2008, 01:31 PM
Harrell in New York...well, there are only three spots. I had really wanted to see Chase Daniel there, because he truly personifies the ostensible definition of the award. But his numbers just aren't there this year.

And of course the Baylor loss was in part a result of the letdown from the previous week. I never said it wasn't.

It is not limited to three spots. They take the number of votes that had been cast and determine the finalists based on that. It was 5 a few years ago, 4 last year, and now only 3.

Remember that Bradford, Mccoy and Harrell all finished 11-1 in the same conference. So look at straight numbers:

Bradford
302-442 68.33% 4,464 yards 48 tds 6 ints, 186 pass efficiency

Mccoy
291-375 77.6% 3445 yards, 32 tds 7 ints, 179.2 pass efficiency 576 rushing yards, 10 tds

Harrell
406-568 71.48% 4,747 yards, 41 tds, 7 ints 163.0 pass efficiency

I would say they are pretty comparable.

TripletDaddy
12-11-2008, 01:47 PM
It is not limited to three spots. They take the number of votes that had been cast and determine the finalists based on that. It was 5 a few years ago, 4 last year, and now only 3.

Remember that Bradford, Mccoy and Harrell all finished 11-1 in the same conference. So look at straight numbers:

Bradford
302-442 68.33% 4,464 yards 48 tds 6 ints, 186 pass efficiency

Mccoy
291-375 77.6% 3445 yards, 32 tds 7 ints, 179.2 pass efficiency 576 rushing yards, 10 tds

Harrell
406-568 71.48% 4,747 yards, 41 tds, 7 ints 163.0 pass efficiency

I would say they are pretty comparable.

Today on the Dan patrick show, some honcho from the DAC/Heisman committee explained how this works.

The DAC's accounting firm (Big 4, no doubt...maybe PWC?) tallies all votes. They look at the results and invite based on groupings. If there is a significant break in the votes between one player and another, that is where the cutoff is made.

So in other words, in years when there are 5 nominees, the votes submitted were scaterred. This doesnt mean that the consensus #1 person wasn't a blowout, but that the rest of the field was pretty close. In a year where there are 3 invites, the votes were pretty uniform and the 4th guy, in this case Texas Tech, didnt receive enough votes to merit an invite.

cougjunkie
12-11-2008, 02:00 PM
Today on the Dan patrick show, some honcho from the DAC/Heisman committee explained how this works.

The DAC's accounting firm (Big 4, no doubt...maybe PWC?) tallies all votes. They look at the results and invite based on groupings. If there is a significant break in the votes between one player and another, that is where the cutoff is made.

So in other words, in years when there are 5 nominees, the votes submitted were scaterred. This doesnt mean that the consensus #1 person wasn't a blowout, but that the rest of the field was pretty close. In a year where there are 3 invites, the votes were pretty uniform and the 4th guy, in this case Texas Tech, didnt receive enough votes to merit an invite.

I understand that, but I still think that Harrell should have been in the discussion. The problem is people use labels like "System" Qb and he is automatically excluded. Nobody wants another Ty Detmer, Andre Ware or David Klinger in the heisman talks.

Babs
12-11-2008, 02:13 PM
It is not limited to three spots. They take the number of votes that had been cast and determine the finalists based on that. It was 5 a few years ago, 4 last year, and now only 3.

Remember that Bradford, Mccoy and Harrell all finished 11-1 in the same conference. So look at straight numbers:

Bradford
302-442 68.33% 4,464 yards 48 tds 6 ints, 186 pass efficiency

Mccoy
291-375 77.6% 3445 yards, 32 tds 7 ints, 179.2 pass efficiency 576 rushing yards, 10 tds

Harrell
406-568 71.48% 4,747 yards, 41 tds, 7 ints 163.0 pass efficiency

I would say they are pretty comparable.


Again, I never said he wasn't worthy. I just don't know how many Big 12 QBs you're going to invite to NY.

Babs
12-11-2008, 02:15 PM
This doesnt mean that the consensus #1 person wasn't a blowout, but that the rest of the field was pretty close. In a year where there are 3 invites, the votes were pretty uniform and the 4th guy, in this case Texas Tech, didnt receive enough votes to merit an invite.

I do wonder what his support was like before the Oklahoma game, or if he would have garnered an invite had his loss been earlier in the year.

Babs
12-11-2008, 02:16 PM
College football is such a fun sport, remember in September when everything Chase Daniel did was news? I remember fondly his faux-hawk, and wasn't he texting some D-list celeb that made the rounds too.

I think he also made news for picking his nose on the sidelines and making some immature remarks after a loss last year.

Hot Lunch
12-11-2008, 02:22 PM
The person that I think got screwed in not going to New York for da Heisman is Michael Crabtree. Yes these Q.B.'s put up some great numbers this year but IMO Crabtree is the best player in college football.

Players that win the Heisman that are not Q.B.'s are going to be few and far between going forward. With the offenses that are being ran in college football now I think it will take a "Reggie Bush" type player to win the award not as QB.

il Padrino Ute
12-11-2008, 02:31 PM
The person that I think got screwed in not going to New York for da Heisman is Michael Crabtree. Yes these Q.B.'s put up some great numbers this year but IMO Crabtree is the best player in college football.

Players that win the Heisman that are not Q.B.'s are going to be few and far between going forward. With the offenses that are being ran in college football now I think it will take a "Reggie Bush" type player to win the award not as QB.

I haven't seen much of Crabtree at all, but looking at his career stats, I wonder if he's not in the running for the Heisman because his numbers are down from last season.

Babs
12-11-2008, 02:52 PM
I haven't seen much of Crabtree at all, but looking at his career stats, I wonder if he's not in the running for the Heisman because his numbers are down from last season.

He was mentioned, but he was overshadowed by his teammate and all the marquee QBs this year.

Hot Lunch
12-11-2008, 02:56 PM
He was mentioned, but he was overshadowed by his teammate and all the marquee QBs this year.

The Heisman race will from here on out be between "Marquee QB's" unfortunately.

TripletDaddy
12-11-2008, 03:10 PM
Previous Heisman winners vote for new Heisman winners.

From whence have most Heisman winners sprung? Oklahoma, Notre Dame, Miami, USC, Ohio State, Michigan, Texas, et al.

So why is it surprising that a QB or a receiver from Texas Tech get the shaft in a year when Oklahoma and Texas have legit contenders?

Mormon Red Death
12-11-2008, 03:13 PM
3. Tech has been passed over for the BCS and are stuck playing in the Cotton Bowl, which is pretty sorry consolation for them at this point. They're ranked 4th in the computers, but they're pitted against #25 Mississippi. It's going to be hard enough for UT to get "up" for the Fiesta Bowl; Tech has to get "up" for a outdated, run-down venue in innercity Dallas against cut-rate competition.



The MWC would kill for that consolation

HuskyFreeNorthwest
12-11-2008, 03:15 PM
The MWC would kill for that consolation

As would the Pac 10.

Babs
12-11-2008, 03:15 PM
The MWC would kill for that consolation

yes. I was going to point this out. I saw a bunch of USC fans the other day complaining that they have to settle for playing in the Rose Bowl every year. Oh, the shame.

TripletDaddy
12-11-2008, 03:21 PM
yes. I was going to point this out. I saw a bunch of USC fans the other day complaining that they have to settle for playing in the Rose Bowl every year. Oh, the shame.

The BCS has done this. Rather than preserving the tradition of the bowls, the BCS has ironically killed the bowls.

OWN THE ROSE BOWL. This is the mantra in Heritage Hall. Anyone that has visited has seen the big sign. This was back when it meant more to play there. Every year you were pitted against the top Big 10 team. A huge win in the Rose Bowl could garner you enough AP votes to make a run at the title.

Today, the Orange, Sugar, Rose, and Fiesta, while more glamorous, are every bit as meaningless as the Vegas Bowl. The winners of these bowls gets nothing. They are playing for nothing. Only the winner of the chanpionship game gets the prize.

The difference between pre-BCS and BCS is that at least therewas intrigue. It wasn't written in stone that only one of two teams would have the chance to win the title. Nowadays, the coaches are contractually obligated to name the winner of the championship game the first place team. It is lame.

Mormon Red Death
12-11-2008, 03:36 PM
The BCS has done this. Rather than preserving the tradition of the bowls, the BCS has ironically killed the bowls.

OWN THE ROSE BOWL. This is the mantra in Heritage Hall. Anyone that has visited has seen the big sign. This was back when it meant more to play there. Every year you were pitted against the top Big 10 team. A huge win in the Rose Bowl could garner you enough AP votes to make a run at the title.

Today, the Orange, Sugar, Rose, and Fiesta, while more glamorous, are every bit as meaningless as the Vegas Bowl. The winners of these bowls gets nothing. They are playing for nothing. Only the winner of the chanpionship game gets the prize.

The difference between pre-BCS and BCS is that at least therewas intrigue. It wasn't written in stone that only one of two teams would have the chance to win the title. Nowadays, the coaches are contractually obligated to name the winner of the championship game the first place team. It is lame.

Very Salient point. The only thing I would add is that the BCS has helped the NON BCS leagues get in bigger bowls. That 18 Million check sure is nice

il Padrino Ute
12-11-2008, 03:38 PM
OWN THE ROSE BOWL. This is the mantra in Heritage Hall.

Isn't that a dorm at the BYU?

Babs
12-11-2008, 05:19 PM
Today, the Orange, Sugar, Rose, and Fiesta, while more glamorous, are every bit as meaningless as the Vegas Bowl.

I wholeheartedly agree. I've been ridiculed online for suggesting as much. But it's absolutely true.

Babs
12-11-2008, 05:20 PM
Isn't that a dorm at the BYU?

It's a high school in OKC.

Babs
12-11-2008, 08:50 PM
Also the fact that Harrell is not in New York is a travesty.

Apparently Leach agrees:
"if Graham is not invited to the Heisman, they ought to just quit giving out the award. This is a shameless example of politics ruling over performance."