BYU's offense: Pro-style or Spread?

[Hsaru]

Which should we be running with our personnel?

[Hot Lunch]

Which should we be running with our personnel?

Wing T

[cougjunkie]

Wing T

If Nelson stays at QB I say we hire Tom Osborne as an offensive consultant. See if Tommie Frazier wants to come in as QB coach.

[Hot Lunch]

If Nelson stays at QB I say we hire Tom Osborne as an offensive consultant. See if Tommie Frazier wants to come in as QB coach.

Matt Marshell can compete for the job with Riley. It will be great. I can see it now. They should probably install this before TCU. The Horned Frogs will shit themselves and not know what to do.

[TheBYUGuy]

Which should we be running with our personnel?

Does "personnel" include the coaches?

[Hsaru]

Does "personnel" include the coaches?

It means what is the best offense for the current and future of BYU?

[Hot Lunch]

Does "personnel" include the coaches?

Dupaix and Doman. This really does have the Wing T written all over it.

[MarkGrace]

I don't know shit about this stuff, but based on some of the things I've read about the pro-style (need for a quality RB, TE's in more of a blocking than receiving schematic), I'm not sure I see how it really fits the kind of athletes we get at BYU.

[TheBYUGuy]

Dupaix and Doman. This really does have the Wing T written all over it.

That's why I asked.

[Uncle Ted]

Wing T

LOL. Hey, it worked wonders for my pop warner teams.

[Sizzle]

IMO, BYU was successful with the West Coast (or, as you are referring to it here, Pro-Style) offense in the early 80s because most teams weren't running it. BYU was also able to succeed because it relied more heavily on execution and timing than athleticism. Think of it as a passing version of the triple option attack that Air Force and the service academies run.

BYU was also successful under Anaes offense because he also put BYUs ability to execute at a premium over athleticism in a spread iteration. It is also a reason why the Y struggled under Crowton, who tried more to create mismatches with the athletes he had on his team in a more "innovative" type offense. Unfortunately, he couldn't keep all his recruits around, and trying to put some RMs in situations where they needed to rely on their athleticism instead of execution to succeed was not a good mix.

IMO, BYU as a team is similar to the service academies, with the ability to recruit a little bit deeper. They probably won't ever get classes of athletes like Oregon or USC, but they should be able to land players who can play within themselves and play assignment sound football. I think whatever offense they run needs to emphasize discipline and timing and execution over athleticism. Generally speaking, spread to me seems to be an offense that would rely more heavily on athleticism than execution in putting players in one on one situations in space and letting them make a play. However, there is definitely a way to run the spread where it tries to isolate defenders and move the ball down the field chunks at a time instead of hoping to turn quick hits into big plays with athletic WRs and backs in mismatched situations.

My take on the offensive philosophy is that a big part of the reason Anae was let go was that BYU had pretty much reached its ceiling in terms of "execution" style offense. In other words, execution is great, and should be the focal point of the offensive philosophy and shouldn't be forgotten, but to take BYU to the next level, there needed to be an added element of innovation. I think this is where the thought that Doman with his diverse experience (playing in option, west coast and spread iterations at High School, College and the NFL) that he can implement philosophies from each and add the innovative element to the offense to be successful, and hopefully not at the expense of compromising the execution aspect. I think he very well may grow into that, but the results so far have been a bit of a mixed bag.

IMO at the root of the problem is the ground game. BYU's rushing attack is struggling, and a lot of that falls at the feet of the OLine IMO. BYU offensively is also a young team. If you're relying on execution, it is going to take some time to get things clicking. Don't forget that this is a very young team learning a new offense, not one that they have been running for the past 3 years. Everybody is starting from ground zero. Think back to Anaes first year, it took the team who was a much more experienced offense (think of the 2004 offense that had John Beck, Curtis Brown, Johnny Harline, Todd Watkins all returning in 2005 and an OLine that was fairly experienced as well) it took that group until the end of October before they really got clicking... and that included a game against a 1AA team at the start of the season to get things rolling. We had games of 3 points against BC at home, 10 points at SDSU, 27 points against New Mexico and 24 points against CSU. That was a more experienced team IMO and it still took them a while to get rolling. I don't care if you're talking spread or Pro style or triple option, you're installing a new offense with young offensive skill players. It's going to take some time to click.

For the record, I think BYU can get the personnel to run the pro-style offense and be just fine. Juice is an alright pro-style back if he can get healthy. Austin Holt and Richard Wilson, and even Devin Mahina are all capable blockers and receivers from the TE spot. The biggest thing that needs to get rolling on our offense (which has been a little bit better the last two weeks) is our offensive line. I think that is one of the bigger reasons Riley was able to succeed over Jake, he was able to buy extra time to make throws with his feet, and also was able to open up the ground game being an extra player on the field and making the defense account for all 11 instead of being able to play 11 on 10 in terms of the ground game.

[Paperback Writer]

If Nelson stays at QB I say we hire Tom Osborne as an offensive consultant. See if Tommie Frazier wants to come in as QB coach.

Tom Osborne already has a day job as AD at Nebraska. Besides he and and Bo Pelini have their own problems with a QB who is very fast and runs the option somewhat well but can't pass accurately, has very poor throwing mechanics, and can't read a defense very well (or at all). Many Nebraska fans want to bench him (RS-Sophomore) in lieu of an unproven RS-Freshman who they hope can pass a football with proper throwing mechanics...and to the correct team.

And BYU doesn't want Tommie Frazier as a coach. Frazier has tried the coaching profession and it ddin't work out all that well. A better option (pun intended) is Turner Gill. He's off to a rough start at Kansas and might be available soon. Best of all he's a proven QB coach. He was Frazier's QB coach (who should have won a Heisman) and Eric Crouch's QB coach who did win a Heisman (and maybe should not have).

But I think the best QB coach for Riley Nelson just might be Scott Frost who was Nebraska's QB in 1996-97. He's currently the WR coach at Oregon. Nebraska wanted to hire him but Frost wanted a promotion to OC. I bet Frost remembers enough Nebraska power option and can mix it with some Oregon style spread. But the cost for getting Frost would probably be a OC position and I doubt Brandon Doman would be cool with that.

[jay santos]

Our demographics fall in like this:

huge, crushing OL
comparatively great TE's, both athletic (usually Poly) and big (usually white)
poor RB's: rarely anyone with speed but sometimes good big backs like Harvey but good FB's (see TE)
poor WR's, good possession WR's with good hands
QB: pro style pocket QB

Areas where we need to recruit from outside the demographic to be successful in any kind of offense but at least a little bit in an offense that minimized the importance of these positions:
WR: speed guy
RB: speed guys

So based on this, I would choose an offense that was heavy in passing. I would use the run to keep D's honest, with an emphasis on a power running style game.

In the passing game, on the spectrum from on one side relying on playmaking WR's to the other side relying on execution, I would choose the latter.

I would design a blocking scheme using our big, slow lineman to be able to protect a passer yet also run block.

I would pass more to the middle of the field, comparatively, utilizing TE's and backs that can catch and not so much WR's going one on one on the outside.

The good news is this sounds A LOT like our offense.

[Paperback Writer]

Our demographics fall in like this:

huge, crushing OL
comparatively great TE's, both athletic (usually Poly) and big (usually white)
poor RB's: rarely anyone with speed but sometimes good big backs like Harvey but good FB's (see TE)
poor WR's, good possession WR's with good hands
QB: pro style pocket QB

Areas where we need to recruit from outside the demographic to be successful in any kind of offense but at least a little bit in an offense that minimized the importance of these positions:
WR: speed guy
RB: speed guys

So based on this, I would choose an offense that was heavy in passing. I would use the run to keep D's honest, with an emphasis on a power running style game.

In the passing game, on the spectrum from on one side relying on playmaking WR's to the other side relying on execution, I would choose the latter.

I would design a blocking scheme using our big, slow lineman to be able to protect a passer yet also run block.

I would pass more to the middle of the field, comparatively, utilizing TE's and backs that can catch and not so much WR's going one on one on the outside.

The good news is this sounds A LOT like our offense.

Not a bad description for Wisconsin's offense but they do have playmakers at RB and WR (in addition to QB). I was very impressed how they dismantled the Nebraska Blackshirt defense...and also envious. Nebraska hopes to build to have an offense like Wisconsin and I think BYU could do the same. If Nebraska was able to sign a quality, fast Poly RB (Roy Helu Jr.) BYU should be able to. Or just go with a tough, dependable white guy - there's got to be an LDS version of Rex Burkhead out there.

[Hsaru]

Not a bad description for Wisconsin's offense but they do have playmakers at RB and WR (in addition to QB). I was very impressed how they dismantled the Nebraska Blackshirt defense...and also envious. Nebraska hopes to build to have an offense like Wisconsin and I think BYU could do the same. If Nebraska was able to sign a quality, fast Poly RB (Roy Helu Jr.) BYU should be able to. Or just go with a tough, dependable white guy - there's got to be an LDS version of Rex Burkhead out there.

I liked the idea of having an offense like Wisconsin and Stanford, but our OL is far from the huge, crushing OL that Jay Santos talked about.