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View Full Version : What I'd be wondering about if I were a BYU fan



LA Ute
11-23-2008, 08:08 AM
Dick Harmon got it right:


In the aftermath, BYU will have to examine why it had Hall attack the teeth of Utah's defensive strength the secondary when the Cougars averaged 7.1 yards rushing per attempt, 30 carries for 216 yards in the game.

As I watched the game I was asking that myself. I was very worried about our ability to stop BYU's running game - because the Utes pretty much couldn't, and the momentum seemed to be going BYU's way. Hall's fumble seemed to be the game-changer. Nothing ever went right for the Cougars after that.

FMCoug
11-23-2008, 09:41 AM
Dick Harmon got it right:


In the aftermath, BYU will have to examine why it had Hall attack the teeth of Utah's defensive strength the secondary when the Cougars averaged 7.1 yards rushing per attempt, 30 carries for 216 yards in the game.

As I watched the game I was asking that myself. I was very worried about our ability to stop BYU's running game - because the Utes pretty much couldn't, and the momentum seemed to be going BYU's way. Hall's fumble seemed to be the game-changer. Nothing ever went right for the Cougars after that.

Because our coaches are too damn stubborn to adjust. They really believe that a) we are a Texas Tech style passing O and b) if we just execute right it doesnt matter what the D does.

I am more pissed at the coaching (specifically Anae and the boneheaded decisions to go away from the run at critical times) than I am at Hall today.

Donuthole
11-23-2008, 10:17 AM
I am more pissed at the coaching (specifically Anae and the boneheaded decisions to go away from the run at critical times) than I am at Hall today.

That makes two of us. When you are averaging more per rushing attempt than you are per passing completion, it might be a good time to stick with the run. Especially when that's what got you back into the game (twice).

OhioBlue
11-23-2008, 11:26 AM
Because our coaches are too damn stubborn to adjust. They really believe that a) we are a Texas Tech style passing O and b) if we just execute right it doesnt matter what the D does.

I am more pissed at the coaching (specifically Anae and the boneheaded decisions to go away from the run at critical times) than I am at Hall today.


Amen. I am NOT a big fan of Robert Anae right now. Unga, Vakapuna, Hall, Collie, even freakin' Kariya were making massive conquests of land on the ground. There's NO excuse for abandoning the run like that and Anae deserves to have the spotlight on him right now.

OrangeUte
11-23-2008, 03:47 PM
when max hall runs for a 11 yard td, you know that your run defense is playing horribly. i agree that it was a closer game than the score let on. the ute D was not good against byu in 3rd down situations. turnovers were the difference. utes could have had even more pics but buttery fingers prevented that.

shawn smith played collie perfectly. held collie to no big plays. AC still picked up 100 yards, but he was having to really work for them.

even injured, pitta is still clutch in "must complete" 3rd down situations. that guy could have been the dagger in our heart if not for the turnovers - and he was injured!

brice mccain scared the shit out of me.

i agree that the better team won. utes defense got the pressure on hall and forced and/or took advantage of the turnovers.

i still dont' get ludwig. johnson excels when the tempo of the game is faster... they moved the ball better out of a no-huddle type offense.

il Padrino Ute
11-23-2008, 05:19 PM
i still dont' get ludwig. johnson excels when the tempo of the game is faster... they moved the ball better out of a no-huddle type offense.

Ludwing called a helluva game yesterday.

In fact, I'd say that Ludwig called a helluva season. The x-factor in games is the execution by the players. When they execute, the OC looks great. When they don't, the OC looks poor.

cougjunkie
11-23-2008, 06:51 PM
when max hall runs for a 11 yard td, you know that your run defense is playing horribly. i agree that it was a closer game than the score let on. the ute D was not good against byu in 3rd down situations. turnovers were the difference. utes could have had even more pics but buttery fingers prevented that.

shawn smith played collie perfectly. held collie to no big plays. AC still picked up 100 yards, but he was having to really work for them.

even injured, pitta is still clutch in "must complete" 3rd down situations. that guy could have been the dagger in our heart if not for the turnovers - and he was injured!

brice mccain scared the shit out of me.

i agree that the better team won. utes defense got the pressure on hall and forced and/or took advantage of the turnovers.

i still dont' get ludwig. johnson excels when the tempo of the game is faster... they moved the ball better out of a no-huddle type offense.

One surprising thing for me is that BYU did not give up a sack. For some reason I felt like they gave up 5.

Mormon Red Death
11-23-2008, 07:20 PM
Dick Harmon got it right:


In the aftermath, BYU will have to examine why it had Hall attack the teeth of Utah's defensive strength the secondary when the Cougars averaged 7.1 yards rushing per attempt, 30 carries for 216 yards in the game.

As I watched the game I was asking that myself. I was very worried about our ability to stop BYU's running game - because the Utes pretty much couldn't, and the momentum seemed to be going BYU's way. Hall's fumble seemed to be the game-changer. Nothing ever went right for the Cougars after that.

The game changer was the pick before the half and the ensuing Personal foul on Max hall.

Gocougs
11-23-2008, 10:53 PM
One surprising thing for me is that BYU did not give up a sack. For some reason I felt like they gave up 5.

Unfortunately, I would have taken sacks over interceptions. Hall looked like he was confused. On one pass play, he thought Pitta was going to change his route instead of running the route that was called. Max, quit trying to outhink the other team and your own players. Make the throws that are designed.

Hot Lunch
11-24-2008, 01:35 PM
The game changer was the pick before the half and the ensuing Personal foul on Max hall.

With out a doubt this was the game changer. Instead of being down by 3 at the worst at halftime, BYU went down by 10.

TripletDaddy
11-24-2008, 02:26 PM
My concerns are not really Utah-related. They are more big picture than that. The Utah game didnt' reveal anything, it only highlighted that which we already knew.

I am wondering if Max has hit the ceiling. Watching him in action over the weekend, not getting better as the game wore on but actually getting worse.....repeating what we saw in the TCU game....that's when I knew that Max Hall isn't great. He's good. But he isn't great.

Is he going to come back next season and correct the mistakes that up until now he hasn't been able to correct? Is he going to stop telegraphing passes? Is he going to grow a foot or two and avoid all those bat downs? Or will he come back, be a good solid QB again, win 9-10 games, lose a few, and then go on his way to a poor NFL career?

I am not sneezing at his success. I am just trying to decide whether he is truly great.

The other big picture issue that no BYU fan wants to discuss, but I will throw it out. In channeling my inner Exie, the Y has some serious soul searching to do. The U has now gone undefeated and into the BCS twice in the past 4 years. The Y has not come within 2 losses each season of accomplishing the same feat. The U performs better against BCS opponents. The Y flounders against OOC foes if it is a road game. In short, the U has been outclassing the Y. They achieve more with (allegedly) less, while the Y underachieves. Why is this? I am being honest here and not looking for some troll SeattleUte answer. I am looking for real guesses as to why this is happening.

BYU's OOC schedule next year is not very forgiving.

cougjunkie
11-24-2008, 02:32 PM
My concerns are not really Utah-related. They are more big picture than that. The Utah game didnt' reveal anything, it only highlighted that which we already knew.

I am wondering if Max has hit the ceiling. Watching him in action over the weekend, not getting better as the game wore on but actually getting worse.....repeating what we saw in the TCU game....that's when I knew that Max Hall isn't great. He's good. But he isn't great.

Is he going to come back next season and correct the mistakes that up until now he hasn't been able to correct? Is he going to stop telegraphing passes? Is he going to grow a foot or two and avoid all those bat downs? Or will he come back, be a good solid QB again, win 9-10 games, lose a few, and then go on his way to a poor NFL career?

I am not sneezing at his success. I am just trying to decide whether he is truly great.

The other big picture issue that no BYU fan wants to discuss, but I will throw it out. In channeling my inner Exie, the Y has some serious soul searching to do. The U has now gone undefeated and into the BCS twice in the past 4 years. The Y has not come within 2 losses each season of accomplishing the same feat. The U performs better against BCS opponents. The Y flounders against OOC foes if it is a road game. In short, the U has been outclassing the Y. They achieve more with (allegedly) less, while the Y underachieves. Why is this? I am being honest here and not looking for some troll SeattleUte answer. I am looking for real guesses as to why this is happening.

BYU's OOC schedule next year is not very forgiving.

Regarding point number 2, do you think that possibly BYU is actually get more out of its players and that they are just not that talented? I mean lets break this down for a second:

The Defense: Kellen Fowler, David Tafuna, Brandon Howard, Matt Bauman, Shawn Doman, do not start for another team in this conference and I truly mean that. I think that Denney, Clawson, Tialavea and Howard/Johnson are average to above average players for the MWC but they dont start for Utah or TCU. Jorgensen and Nixon are the only real studs on Defense. The fact that we have even made it to this point can be considered a success.

On Offense: I think we are pretty loaded but like my highschool coach always said: "Offense wins games, Defense wins Championships" That seems to be true especially this year in the MWC.

Maybe Bronco is getting more out of his players and in reality we are a 7-5 or 8-4 team?

TripletDaddy
11-24-2008, 02:36 PM
Regarding point number 2, do you think that possibly BYU is actually get more out of its players and that they are just not that talented? I mean lets break this down for a second:

The Defense: Kellen Fowler, David Tafuna, Brandon Howard, Matt Bauman, Shawn Doman, do not start for another team in this conference and I truly mean that. I think that Denney, Clawson, Tialavea and Howard/Johnson are average to above average players for the MWC but they dont start for Utah or TCU. Jorgensen and Nixon are the only real studs on Defense. The fact that we have even made it to this point can be considered a success.

On Offense: I think we are pretty loaded but like my highschool coach always said: "Offense wins games, Defense wins Championships" That seems to be true especially this year in the MWC.

Maybe Bronco is getting more out of his players and in reality we are a 7-5 or 8-4 team?

Based on how the D started the season and then ended it, I would have little problem buying the overachieve argument.

However, that simply begs a different question.....why is the Y getting inferior talent and losing the recruting war with Utah? Is it the honor code restrictions?

I hate this because basically Exie was right.

Hot Lunch
11-24-2008, 02:40 PM
The other big picture issue that no BYU fan wants to discuss, but I will throw it out. In channeling my inner Exie, the Y has some serious soul searching to do. The U has now gone undefeated and into the BCS twice in the past 4 years. The Y has not come within 2 losses each season of accomplishing the same feat. The U performs better against BCS opponents. The Y flounders against OOC foes if it is a road game. In short, the U has been outclassing the Y. They achieve more with (allegedly) less, while the Y underachieves. Why is this? I am being honest here and not looking for some troll SeattleUte answer. I am looking for real guesses as to why this is happening.

BYU's OOC schedule next year is not very forgiving.

In all honesty the bigger picture doesn't look good for BYU.... Next year they have a very fast FSU team coming to LES. Speed really kills BYU. The biggest weakness on this team was the secondary and middle linebackers. There aren't any coming up the ranks right now at middle backer. The same guys that were in the middle this year will be there next year. The secondary we have Rich stepping in which should be an improvement from this year. I still don't understand why he wasn't starting from the start but who plays the other safety position? Te'o I am hoping. He was impressive in camp and could be good but we have the same corners and most importantly probably the same scheme.

Looking further down the road to 2010 is even worse. All the play makers on Offense are gone as well as the entire D line. Yeah there is a little depth on the D line right now but still you starting front 3 are going to be replaced.

IMO the big picture doesn't look good for the Y right now.

Goatnapper'96
11-24-2008, 02:41 PM
My concerns are not really Utah-related. They are more big picture than that. The Utah game didnt' reveal anything, it only highlighted that which we already knew.

I am wondering if Max has hit the ceiling. Watching him in action over the weekend, not getting better as the game wore on but actually getting worse.....repeating what we saw in the TCU game....that's when I knew that Max Hall isn't great. He's good. But he isn't great.

Is he going to come back next season and correct the mistakes that up until now he hasn't been able to correct? Is he going to stop telegraphing passes? Is he going to grow a foot or two and avoid all those bat downs? Or will he come back, be a good solid QB again, win 9-10 games, lose a few, and then go on his way to a poor NFL career?

I am not sneezing at his success. I am just trying to decide whether he is truly great.

The other big picture issue that no BYU fan wants to discuss, but I will throw it out. In channeling my inner Exie, the Y has some serious soul searching to do. The U has now gone undefeated and into the BCS twice in the past 4 years. The Y has not come within 2 losses each season of accomplishing the same feat. The U performs better against BCS opponents. The Y flounders against OOC foes if it is a road game. In short, the U has been outclassing the Y. They achieve more with (allegedly) less, while the Y underachieves. Why is this? I am being honest here and not looking for some troll SeattleUte answer. I am looking for real guesses as to why this is happening.

BYU's OOC schedule next year is not very forgiving.

I don't think soul-searching should be based in comparison to Utah. I have long felt that Utah should be better than BYU, it has fewer impediments to success than BYU has. I just think that BYU has a better coaching staff, or one that figured things out quicker. I don't buy the more with less at all. Utah has some huge advantages over BYU. That is not defeatist but reality. Further, next year BYU gets the big two in Provo and my guess is the defense will be a little bit better. BYU had a solid team this year with an inflated win total due to poor competiton, but I am not convinced that BYU is suddenly outclassed by TCU and Utah.

Utah had a spectacular year this year, hats off to them but I am no way convinced that BYU will never field a team as good as Utah this year. I doubt it will take much to convince me BYU will never field a team as good as Utah in 2004, but BYU can be as good as Utah was this year. They may do that next year and I believe the 2006 Y squad was every bit as good as this U squad. I think that Mendenhall has lifted BYU and the consistency indicates that eventually he is likely to get his fair share of teams totally over the hump. My frustrations with the coaching staff is letting the talent on defense get as poor as it was this year. That should have been headed off a year or two ago.

As for Max Hall, I don't know what to say or predict. Time will tell how things next year. I commented before this year that I thought that Max was the recepient of a great supporting cast. Then he had those first six games and I thought I was wrong, but as the dust settles on this year Max Hall was fundamental to both losses. I think he can improve and I think it is likely he will. In fact I believe the better schedule should help. My one comment on Hall is that I thought he was better mentally than Beck, but I never believed he would be as good as Beck was once Beck got confidence and his mental game no longer held back his physical attributes. So yes, I think Hall has a ceiling so to speak, but he can still play better than he did against Utah or TCU. Being the optimist I think he will next year.

cougjunkie
11-24-2008, 02:45 PM
Based on how the D started the season and then ended it, I would have little problem buying the overachieve argument.

However, that simply begs a different question.....why is the Y getting inferior talent and losing the recruting war with Utah? Is it the honor code restrictions?

I hate this because basically Exie was right.

To be honest we have different recruiting bases. The instate battle is probably a wash right now, yeah we could use Kruger, or Siliaga, Zane Taylor etc. But they would love to have Jorgensen, Harvey, Fui, etc. So I think right now in terms of head to head battles it is very close, and I might even give Utah the slight edge. The difference is Utah can go out and convince a JC, or non-LDS african american corner to come there and they dont have to worry about the honor code, people being overly nice, or being a minority like no other time in their lives.

For example people were buzzing about Oneill Chambers, I mean going crazy that we landed him. But in reality we get 3 star, 6'3 210 pound receivers all day long. In the last 3 years we have landed Luke Ashworth, Mckay Jacobsen, Jordan Smith, Marcus Matthews, and Jake Murphy. All as highly touted or more so than CHambers but none of them got the buzz, because he is a non-lds african american. Then when we do have the rare occassion to land a top notch non-lds kid we lose them like G Pittman.

The other thing and I truly believe this is that we have still not recovered from the whole sexgate, rape scandal with essentially the entire 2004 recruiting class. Those guys would have all been seniors this year, Ibrahim Rashada, Karland Bennett, William Turner, Billy Skinner and Drew Mugleston (unrelated to the sexgate) Those are all secondary players that we lost. Not only does that hurt us in terms of just not having them here, but it hurt in terms of public perception. Those kids were hung out to dry by BYU and the honor code office. They end up being acquitted and it makes BYU look even worse.

Goatnapper'96
11-24-2008, 02:46 PM
Based on how the D started the season and then ended it, I would have little problem buying the overachieve argument.

However, that simply begs a different question.....why is the Y getting inferior talent and losing the recruting war with Utah? Is it the honor code restrictions?

I hate this because basically Exie was right.

I think it is hard to draw hard conclusions based upon one year. Do you think that Utah beating BYU, even convincingly, demonstrates that BYU will forever have inferior talent to Utah?

Saying that, I think BYU should have better talent at LB and safety. I believe BYU will have that again. I think the cornerback talent is adequate if the LBs and safeties were better.

TripletDaddy
11-24-2008, 02:47 PM
Further, next year BYU gets the big two in Provo and my guess is the defense will be a little bit better.

That is another issue...nice scheduling, always playing TCU and Utah on the road in the same year.

Utah always plays BYU and TCU on the road in the same year, also.

TCU is the one that got it right, splitting the two each year.

LA Ute
11-24-2008, 02:48 PM
Regarding point number 2, do you think that possibly BYU is actually get more out of its players and that they are just not that talented? . . . Maybe Bronco is getting more out of his players and in reality we are a 7-5 or 8-4 team?

BYU is such an odd duck in the world of intercollegiate athletics . . . and I say that as one who grew up a BYU fan, the son of a BYU fan, and the brother of a BYU fan. (Also the brother and son of Ute fans. One of those divided family things.)

BYU's Church affiliation is a two-edged sword. The Y's success depends on the Church, but its limitations also stem from Church sponsorship. You have Utah's problem recruiting because of MWC status, etc. but on top of those you have the religious recruiting negatives. At the same time, you have a leg up on every LDS recruit who takes being LDS seriously. You also have a built-in network of fans who will come see you play wherever you are, even if they are not BYU alums.

Maybe, someday, if the Church grows in the USA to a size that produces a lot of blue-chip LDS athletes, you'll be sitting pretty. (I'm not too sanguine about the Church's growth in the US, at least measured by converts.) Until then you'll have this problem.

Having said that, I think BYU is a lot like Air Force on steroids. The typical LDS kid is more disciplined, more focused, probably a little smarter, has more experience leading or being led, and so on. (I am generalizing here.) So you can do more with less. I've always thought it is amazing how well BYU does. The problem is, BYU fans are not satified with playing above their ability level. (I admit, I probably would not be either, if I were a BYU fan.) Mormons tend to think anything is possible, due to our religious beliefs, which don't accept limits very easily. We also tend to have a bit of an inferiority complex, which gives us a weird tendency to crave the world's approval while at the same time disdaining the world's standards. Example: We get angry when our sports teams are dissed, but also are unwilling to do the things necessary not to be dissed.

Anyway, my two cents. I trust I make myself clear as mud.

cougjunkie
11-24-2008, 02:49 PM
That is another issue...nice scheduling, always playing TCU and Utah on the road in the same year.

Utah always plays BYU and TCU on the road in the same year, also.

TCU is the one that got it right, splitting the two each year.

I was told and I may be wrong about this that TCU made that a stipulation upon joining the conference.

Goatnapper'96
11-24-2008, 02:50 PM
In all honesty the bigger picture doesn't look good for BYU.... Next year they have a very fast FSU team coming to LES. Speed really kills BYU. The biggest weakness on this team was the secondary and middle linebackers. There aren't any coming up the ranks right now at middle backer. The same guys that were in the middle this year will be there next year. The secondary we have Rich stepping in which should be an improvement from this year. I still don't understand why he wasn't starting from the start but who plays the other safety position? Te'o I am hoping. He was impressive in camp and could be good but we have the same corners and most importantly probably the same scheme.

Looking further down the road to 2010 is even worse. All the play makers on Offense are gone as well as the entire D line. Yeah there is a little depth on the D line right now but still you starting front 3 are going to be replaced.

IMO the big picture doesn't look good for the Y right now.

I think the safeties will be better next year. I think the LBs will be improved due to experience. Perhaps Teo or So'oto can bring some playmaking ability to the LB corps but I think that sketchy to expect by next year. All together I think the defense is better next year.

2010 will be a rough year for BYU and probably the first year in 5 years BYU won't win double digit games, I think BYU wins at least 10 again next year. However, I also think that BYU is likely to go on another run of a few double digit win years after 2010 if BYU gets the lions share of the good LDS recruits it seems to believe it will land.

Hot Lunch
11-24-2008, 02:51 PM
That is another issue...nice scheduling, always playing TCU and Utah on the road in the same year.

Utah always plays BYU and TCU on the road in the same year, also.

TCU is the one that got it right, splitting the two each year.

wouldn't have this one fell on the conference when TCU joined and how they set it up? Yes TCU did get lucky by splitting it up.

TripletDaddy
11-24-2008, 02:52 PM
I think it is hard to draw hard conclusions based upon one year. Do you think that Utah beating BYU, even convincingly, demonstrates that BYU will forever have inferior talent to Utah?

Saying that, I think BYU should have better talent at LB and safety. I believe BYU will have that again. I think the cornerback talent is adequate if the LBs and safeties were better.

No, perhaps I was not clear. I am looking retrospectively. I am certainly not saying BYU will never catch up to the U in the modern BCS era but my conclusions are also not based on only one year.

My question goes to why the U was able to accomplish TWICE that which the Y hasn't come close to doing once. And with zero margin for error, 2-loss seasons equal " not close." Keep in mind that Utah has done this with 2 different coaches, as well. And with a healhy stock of players that were recruited by the previous coach. So what is the U doing that BYU is not doing? (besides going undefeated)

TripletDaddy
11-24-2008, 02:55 PM
wouldn't have this one fell on the conference when TCU joined and how they set it up? Yes TCU did get lucky by splitting it up.

yes, sorry didnt mean to make it sound like it was BYU's doing.

Goatnapper'96
11-24-2008, 02:55 PM
No, perhaps I was not clear. I am looking retrospectively. I am certainly not saying BYU will never catch up to the U in the modern BCS era but my conclusions are also not based on only one year.

My question goes to why the U was able to accomplish TWICE that which the Y hasn't come close to doing once. And with zero margin for error, 2-loss seasons equal " not close." Keep in mind that Utah has done this with 2 different coaches, as well. And with a healhy stock of players that were recruited by the previous coach. So what is the U doing that BYU is not doing? (besides going undefeated)

I think Utah has a higher ceiling due to BYU's uniqueness. However, saying that I still believe BYU has the ability to get to a BCS bowl game and I believe they will get their fair share of trips with Mendenhall.

cougjunkie
11-24-2008, 02:56 PM
BYU is such an odd duck in the world of intercollegiate athletics . . . and I say that as one who grew up a BYU fan, the son of a BYU fan, and the brother of a BYU fan. (Also the brother and son of Ute fans. One of those divided family things.)

BYU's Church affiliation is a two-edged sword. The Y's success depends on the Church, but its limitations also stem from Church sponsorship. You have Utah's problem recruiting because of MWC status, etc. but on top of those you have the religious recruiting negatives. At the same time, you have a leg up on every LDS recruit who takes being LDS seriously. You also have a built-in network of fans who will come see you play wherever you are, even if they are not BYU alums.

Maybe, someday, if the Church grows in the USA to a size that produces a lot of blue-chip LDS athletes, you'll be sitting pretty. (I'm not too sanguine about the Church's growth in the US, at least measured by converts.) Until then you'll have this problem.

Having said that, I think BYU is a lot like Air Force on steroids. The typical LDS kid is more disciplined, more focused, probably a little smarter, has more experience leading or being led, and so on. (I am generalizing here.) So you can do more with less. I've always thought it is amazing how well BYU does. The problem is, BYU fans are not satified with playing above their ability level. (I admit, I probably would not be either, if I were a BYU fan.) Mormons tend to think anything is possible, due to our religious beliefs, which don't accept limits very easily. We also tend to have a bit of an inferiority complex, which gives us a weird tendency to crave the world's approval while at the same time disdaining the world's standards. Example: We get angry when our sports teams are dissed, but also are unwilling to do the things necessary not to be dissed.

Anyway, my two cents. I trust I make myself clear as mud.

I agree the built in recruiting base is nice, in fact this year it is top 15 in the country nice if we landed everyone. However it seems that the top LDS kids seem to spurn even BYU for greener pastures. In fact in the last 5 years, I can not think of a top LDS kid that came to BYU who had big time offers (USC, LSU, etc) this year we have landed Richard Wilson who fits in that category, Matt Reynold a few years ago but that was more because of his dad.

This year and next BYU has an opportunity to build the program for years to come as the next two recruiting classes in terms of LDS athletes are as good as we have ever seen. Seven 4 star recruits and 3 five star recruits on the list. We have already received commits from four of the 4 star recruits. If we can land Manti Te'o, Suafilo, Van Noy, and Heimuli this class will be the best in BYU history.

RockyBalboa
11-24-2008, 02:58 PM
It's 2009 or bust as far as I'm concerned.

With all of that talent on offense, and what I think will be an improved defense, combined with having our toughest opponents at home, if BYU can't make their BCS noise in 2009, quite frankly I don't know that they ever will.

I've contended for months now that this team will be a lot better in 09' than in 08'.

I think Max Hall being a Senior QB will be a huge advantage for BYU. While it's true he can tend to lose his poise from time to time, in my opinion the things that are his weaknesses are correctable.

Next year is THE year.

Also if Robert Anae left I wouldn't complain one jot or tittle.

Goatnapper'96
11-24-2008, 03:01 PM
I agree the built in recruiting base is nice, in fact this year it is top 15 in the country nice if we landed everyone. However it seems that the top LDS kids seem to spurn even BYU for greener pastures. In fact in the last 5 years, I can not think of a top LDS kid that came to BYU who had big time offers (USC, LSU, etc) this year we have landed Richard Wilson who fits in that category, Matt Reynold a few years ago but that was more because of his dad.

This year and next BYU has an opportunity to build the program for years to come as the next two recruiting classes in terms of LDS athletes are as good as we have ever seen. Seven 4 star recruits and 3 five star recruits on the list. We have already received commits from four of the 4 star recruits. If we can land Manti Te'o, Suafilo, Van Noy, and Heimuli this class will be the best in BYU history.

But the recruiting base has limitations, in years where it is sparse BYU has very little else to fall back upon. Further, as I have said many times in most years there is not that great of a difference between the top notch LDS kid and the second flight LDS kid at OL, TE or LB. I like that BYU landed Richard Wilson, but I bet Remington Peck is not *that* much worse, but when it comes to the skill players the LDS recruiting base struggles to provide adequate enough of those. Hence when BYU's LBs are not at its normal level the BYU defense goes from average to abysmal in a hurry.

Saying that in 2010 BYU will be starting two good African American LDS returned missionaries at CB. Not a huge deal but I think that the historical recruiting base is extending its stakes, so to speak, into demographics not previously available.

RockyBalboa
11-24-2008, 03:02 PM
But the recruiting base has limitations, in years where it is sparse BYU has very little else to fall back upon. Further, as I have said many times in most years there is not that great of a difference between the top notch LDS kid and the second flight LDS kid at OL, TE or LB. I like that BYU landed Richard Wilson, but I bet Remington Peck is not *that* much worse, but when it comes to the skill players the LDS recruiting base struggles to provide adequate enough of those. Hence when BYU's LBs are not at its normal level the BYU defense goes from average to abysmal in a hurry.

Saying that in 2010 BYU will be starting two good African American LDS returned missionaries at CB. Not a huge deal but I think that the historical recruiting base is extending its stakes, so to speak, into demographics not previously available.

Remington Peck is one of the hidden gems of the class. Yes he's rated as a 3 star recruit, but he's going to be a very good player for us.

Plus I think he's going to play Defensive End for us. We've got Tight Ends up the Yin-Yang from here til Timbuktoo.

Hot Lunch
11-24-2008, 03:05 PM
Remington Peck is one of the hidden gems of the class. Yes he's rated as a 3 star recruit, but he's going to be a very good player for us.

Plus I think he's going to play Defensive End for us. We've got Tight Ends up the Yin-Yang from here til Timbuktoo.

I hope you are right on this one. I have a few friends who are involved in the Bingham program that echo your thoughts on Remmington. From what I have heard as well he is not going on a mission. A redshirt next year will be good for him to bulk up and learn from the seniors on the D line.

TripletDaddy
11-24-2008, 03:08 PM
It's 2009 or bust as far as I'm concerned.

With all of that talent on offense, and what I think will be an improved defense, combined with having our toughest opponents at home, if BYU can't make their BCS noise in 2009, quite frankly I don't know that they ever will.

I've contended for months now that this team will be a lot better in 09' than in 08'.

I think Max Hall being a Senior QB will be a huge advantage for BYU. While it's true he can tend to lose his poise from time to time, in my opinion the things that are his weaknesses are correctable.

Next year is THE year.

Also if Robert Anae left I wouldn't complain one jot or tittle.

As long as Anae left his playbook behind, I would be fine with his departure...

Page 1

1. Throw to Austin Collie
2. Check off all eligible receivers, but ultimately throw to Austin Collie
3. Don't look for any other eligible receivers and throw directly to Austin Collie
4. Set up in a power I, audible, then throw to Austin Collie
5. If Austin needs a rest, try some different stuff until Austin can come back into the game.

Page 2 "Short Yardage Situations"

1. On 3rd and 1 with the run working, call for a 10 yard out route to Austin Collie
2. Mall Hall fumbles, thereby creating a long yardage situation, at which time pass it to Austin Collie
3. Hand the ball to Harvey or Fui in the backfield, pick up the first down, Max Hall to commit personal foul, thereby negating first down.

Page 3 "Special Teams"

1. Chambers to catch ball with hands up over his face, thereby blocking his field of vision
2. Chambers up the middle for 3 yards into crowd of 6 defenders
3. Chambers drops the ball
4. Austin Collie returns the ball, stuff happens

LA Ute
11-24-2008, 03:09 PM
It's 2009 or bust as far as I'm concerned.

With all of that talent on offense, and what I think will be an improved defense, combined with having our toughest opponents at home, if BYU can't make their BCS noise in 2009, quite frankly I don't know that they ever will.

I expect the two teams' positions to be reversed next year: You guys will be making noise and we will be just hoping we can beat you for bragging rights and go to a decent non-BCS bowl.

But I hope I am wrong. :D

TripletDaddy
11-24-2008, 03:11 PM
I expect the two teams' positions to be reversed next year: You guys will be making noise and we will be just hoping we can beat you for bragging rights and go to a decent non-BCS bowl.

But I hope I am wrong. :D

The one lone bright spot of Saturday's game......Senior introductions/farewells...

Adios Sakoda, Casteel, BJ, et al.

Those are some tough cleats to fill, esp all at once.

LA Ute
11-24-2008, 03:20 PM
The one lone bright spot of Saturday's game......Senior introductions/farewells...

Adios Sakoda, Casteel, BJ, et al.

Those are some tough cleats to fill, esp all at once.

Yup. That is a dreary fact for Ute fans to contemplate.

Isn't agreement a wonderful thing to see? ;)

Goatnapper'96
11-24-2008, 03:21 PM
The one lone bright spot of Saturday's game......Senior introductions/farewells...

Adios Sakoda, Casteel, BJ, et al.

Those are some tough cleats to fill, esp all at once.

I expect the qb position to not play as well for Utah, but their system doesn't demand great qb play. I think the next Ute qb will be pretty good once he gets some experience, he will however need to adjust his style of he is likely to get dinged up. Losing Sakoda is likely to be a blow. Utes will reload at WR. Ute talent will be fine, IMO.

RockyBalboa
11-24-2008, 03:28 PM
I expect the qb position to not play as well for Utah, but their system doesn't demand great qb play. I think the next Ute qb will be pretty good once he gets some experience, he will however need to adjust his style of he is likely to get dinged up. Losing Sakoda is likely to be a blow. Utes will reload at WR. Ute talent will be fine, IMO.

Utah will have good athletes still at RB with Matt Asiata, Eddie Wide and a redshirting Sausin Shakerin.

They will also be fine at WR with David Reed, Jereme Brooks, Aiona Key,,,and possilby Marquis Wilson returning. Plus I hear great things about Redshirt WR Freshman Luke Matthews from Arizona and Redshirt WR Ryan Lacy.

Where they will struggle is at QB. Louks is fast and an athlete, but I'm not convinced he's an everydown or every game kind of QB that want to be managing the game.

He is a major question mark and will have to prove he can handle the load.

LA Ute
11-24-2008, 03:35 PM
It seems to me that the problems you all see in Max are fixable. No, you can't make him taller but he can learn not to force passes, not to lose his cool, and so forth. I do not look forward to the Utes facing him next year, despite all the fun Ute fans are having with him now. If anything, his performance Saturday night will cause him to set his jaw and be determined to do what's necessary never to play like that again.

Not that I'd mind if he did it again . . . .

scottie
11-24-2008, 04:36 PM
Utah will have good athletes still at RB with Matt Asiata, Eddie Wide and a redshirting Sausin Shakerin.

They will also be fine at WR with David Reed, Jereme Brooks, Aiona Key,,,and possilby Marquis Wilson returning. Plus I hear great things about Redshirt WR Freshman Luke Matthews from Arizona and Redshirt WR Ryan Lacy.

Where they will struggle is at QB. Louks is fast and an athlete, but I'm not convinced he's an everydown or every game kind of QB that want to be managing the game.

He is a major question mark and will have to prove he can handle the load.

Utes, who is your QB next year? A Ute friend of mine told me it's no secret that Louks isn't necessarily in line, which surprised me at first but then I realized in the games I saw all he ever did was run the ball.

Goatnapper'96
11-24-2008, 04:41 PM
Utes, who is your QB next year? A Ute friend of mine told me it's no secret that Louks isn't necessarily in line, which surprised me at first but then I realized in the games I saw all he ever did was run the ball.

Why do you think Paul Krueger kept # 11? He is going both ways, baby! Fear Prop 11!

SeattleUte
11-24-2008, 04:47 PM
Utes, who is your QB next year? A Ute friend of mine told me it's no secret that Louks isn't necessarily in line, which surprised me at first but then I realized in the games I saw all he ever did was run the ball.

Maybe it's this guy. He said he's coming because Whit told him he can compete to start.

http://utah.rivals.com/viewprospect.asp?Sport=1&pr_key=73417

cougjunkie
11-24-2008, 04:49 PM
Maybe it's this guy. He said he's coming because Whit told him he can compete to start.

http://utah.rivals.com/viewprospect.asp?Sport=1&pr_key=73417

Also Griff Robles should be home. Regardless a true freshman out of highschool, a freshman just off a mission or a QB that is fast but cant throw the ball 30 yards, Utah is in trouble.

il Padrino Ute
11-24-2008, 05:20 PM
Also Griff Robles should be home. Regardless a true freshman out of highschool, a freshman just off a mission or a QB that is fast but cant throw the ball 30 yards, Utah is in trouble.

It depends.

If the game plan is a west-coast style similar to what Utah did Saturday, there is no need to throw down field. BJ went deep only twice, I believe against BYU.

Mormon Red Death
11-24-2008, 05:41 PM
Also Griff Robles should be home. Regardless a true freshman out of highschool, a freshman just off a mission or a QB that is fast but cant throw the ball 30 yards, Utah is in trouble.

Hey now don't forget Devonte Christopher and not to mention Chad Manis

Hot Lunch
11-25-2008, 09:01 AM
Hey now don't forget Devonte Christopher and not to mention Chad Manis

Didn't Devonte move to WR?

RockyBalboa
11-25-2008, 09:07 AM
Didn't Devonte move to WR?

Briefly, but they moved him back to QB.

Mormon Red Death
11-25-2008, 09:08 AM
Didn't Devonte move to WR?

They are redshirting him so I don't know that much. I haven't heard if they moved him to WR