Soap Box Issue #26

[Sleeping in EQ]

#26: Latter-day Saints not understanding their own symbols.

There's something wrong when large numbers of adult Latter-day Saints don't have at least some understanding of their own symbols, and don't even want to. It's a vicious strain of puritanism in the Church that I will never go along with.

Sometimes I feel like a Mayan amongst Aztecs. The Aztecs looked at the Mayan artifacts and thought, "that stuff is kind of neat, but not important and we don't understand most of it." A culture not understanding its own symbols is a sign of decline.

I think we're reaping what we're sowing on this. Mormons having more discourse about temple symbols (internal and external) could help, but the legalists in the Church have the mystics by the throat (so to speak). It's like the message is: "We expect you to go to the temple because we're telling you to. We couldn't care less if you understand anything."

There are even obnoxious old people telling me that I can't have a whispered, private discussion in the Celestial room. They are even trying to usher me out. They are part of the problem.

Temple prep courses are absurdly deficient in this area (at least they are if they follow the book. Gidget's sounded good).

It's a recipe for decline--decline of temple attendance, decline of understanding, decline of caring. When many of my fellow Mormons are indifferent or even hostile, I can't help but get pretty pessimistic (or rather, pessi-mystic--sorry, bad pun).

OK. I feel better now.

Edit: One of the reasons we don't have more discourse about the temple and symbols is that the "mystery" of the temple is held up to youth as a carrot. I can see the practical value in that, but it also leads to the problems I've described above (and to others, such as the manipulation that is the "If any would like to withdraw" scenario.).

[Gidget]

#26: Latter-day Saints not understanding their own symbols.

There's something wrong when large numbers of adult Latter-day Saints don't have at least some understanding of their own symbols, and don't even want to. It's a vicious strain of puritanism in the Church that I will never go along with.

Sometimes I feel like a Mayan amongst Aztecs. The Aztecs looked at the Mayan artifacts and thought, "that stuff is kind of neat, but not important and we don't understand most of it." A culture not understanding its own symbols is a sign of decline.

I think we're reaping what we're sowing on this. Mormons having more discourse about temple symbols (internal and external) could help, but the legalists in the Church have the mystics by the throat (so to speak). It's like the message is: "We expect you to go to the temple because we're telling you to. We couldn't care less if you understand anything."

There are even obnoxious old people telling me that I can't have a whispered, private discussion in the Celestial room. They are even trying to usher me out. They are part of the problem.

Temple prep courses are absurdly deficient in this area (at least they are if they follow the book. Gidget's sounded good).

It's a recipe for decline--decline of temple attendance, decline of understanding, decline of caring. When many of my fellow Mormons are indifferent or even hostile, I can't help but get pretty pessimistic (or rather, pessi-mystic--sorry, bad pun).

OK. I feel better now.

Edit: One of the reasons we don't have more discourse about the temple and symbols is that the "mystery" of the temple is held up to youth as a carrot. I can see the practical value in that, but it also leads to the problems I've described above (and to others, such as the manipulation that is the "If any would like to withdraw" scenario.).

Actually I really appreciate this post SEQ. Not just for you saying that my class sounded good (but thanks for that too, it really was awesome). But I feel this is a good explanation for part of the reason why I struggle to feel really open to the Spirit in the temple. I know you are all gasping right?

Seriously though, I love the temple and I love going and I feel good there, but I feel like the only times there I have been really impacted by the Spirit is when I was there for my own work (endowments, marriage/sealing). This is a disappointment to me (though I keep going cuz I like to and it feels right).

I really have no idea what I am doing in there. I have a lot of questions about the symbols and symbolism that go unanswered. I struggle with the idea of researching it too, though I feel like this might actually help me connect more with what I am doing. It just seems like the Church would advise against researching and studying the symbols (I really don't know that though). I think I feel some unknown pressure to not even research other religious ceremonies that are similar to ours. Not only because they could be sacred to THAT religion - but it just seems like the church would advise against it???

This was a hard issue for me to come to terms with while teaching temple prep. There was no way to put the almost endowed at ease with the symbols because I really don't know myself what most of them mean. It was like I was left to sometimes say "well, I feel okay with it, and that's alright with me even if I don't get it" which is true, but I can COMPLETELY understand if that is not good enough for everyone. There is a part of me that feels like it's not good enough for me, though obviously it is because I keep going to the temple.

I understand and do feel like the things in the temple are sacred but I have to admit a little more friendly chatter in the celestial room wouldn't bother me one bit, and I wish that there was more availability to understand some of the symbols somehow when years of faithful attendance isn't bringing any new or confirming revelation (information).

[smokymountainrain]

#26: Latter-day Saints not understanding their own symbols.

There's something wrong when large numbers of adult Latter-day Saints don't have at least some understanding of their own symbols, and don't even want to. It's a vicious strain of puritanism in the Church that I will never go along with.

Sometimes I feel like a Mayan amongst Aztecs. The Aztecs looked at the Mayan artifacts and thought, "that stuff is kind of neat, but not important and we don't understand most of it." A culture not understanding its own symbols is a sign of decline.

I think we're reaping what we're sowing on this. Mormons having more discourse about temple symbols (internal and external) could help, but the legalists in the Church have the mystics by the throat (so to speak). It's like the message is: "We expect you to go to the temple because we're telling you to. We couldn't care less if you understand anything."

There are even obnoxious old people telling me that I can't have a whispered, private discussion in the Celestial room. They are even trying to usher me out. They are part of the problem.

Temple prep courses are absurdly deficient in this area (at least they are if they follow the book. Gidget's sounded good).

It's a recipe for decline--decline of temple attendance, decline of understanding, decline of caring. When many of my fellow Mormons are indifferent or even hostile, I can't help but get pretty pessimistic (or rather, pessi-mystic--sorry, bad pun).

OK. I feel better now.

Edit: One of the reasons we don't have more discourse about the temple and symbols is that the "mystery" of the temple is held up to youth as a carrot. I can see the practical value in that, but it also leads to the problems I've described above (and to others, such as the manipulation that is the "If any would like to withdraw" scenario.).

I'm not sure I understand this post. The Church is growing, temple attendance continues to increase and I've never been ushered out or told that I can't speak in the Celestial Room. Hell, I often speak in a loud voice in the Celestial Room and have never been told to pipe down.

I've also never been told to go to the Temple simply because "we're telling you to". I've been encouraged to go and encourage others to go because I will grow closer to the Lord and increase my spirituality. I found this to be the case.

Are we just making stuff up at this point?

So when we do we start to see this decline? I'm curious.

[ERCougar]

Totally agree. With both Gidget and SIEQ. I would love to have more discussion of the symbols of the temple. Absent this, I become suspicious that the symbololgy is just not all that deep (e.g. DDD's example of lights getting brighter through the ceremony) and consequently I'm just not very interested in attending. Sure, it's peaceful, but so are the mountains, and they're a lot closer (and a better workout).

I've really liked the recent discussion on temple secrecy. It's encouraging to see some opinions favoring what I see needs to happen. Gives me hope that it might.

[RobinFinderson]

This was a hard issue for me to come to terms with while teaching temple prep. There was no way to put the almost endowed at ease with the symbols because I really don't know myself what most of them mean. It was like I was left to sometimes say "well, I feel okay with it, and that's alright with me even if I don't get it" which is true, but I can COMPLETELY understand if that is not good enough for everyone. There is a part of me that feels like it's not good enough for me, though obviously it is because I keep going to the temple.

Gidget, I'll offer my two cents (for free!), and you will have to consider the source (an apostate atheist) but here goes:

The temple uses symbols, not riddles.

In a riddle the listener is given a prompt, and must deduce the answer. There is typically one correct answer. The riddle is a game.

Symbols are used where meaning has a tendency to shift about, or where there is a field of meaning (lots of correct interpretations vs. one correct interpretation).

Wrestling with symbols is better for the soul than solving riddles. Wrestling with symbols provides a spiritual workout, where solving riddles inevitably results in spiritual smugness. Symbols are powerful because their meaning can change at different times in life, allowing the relationship to the symbol to become more nuanced and interesting. Solving a riddle is like a one night stand.

[Levin]

Edit: One of the reasons we don't have more discourse about the temple and symbols is that the "mystery" of the temple is held up to youth as a carrot. I can see the practical value in that, but it also leads to the problems I've described above (and to others, such as the manipulation that is the "If any would like to withdraw" scenario.).

I think the "mystery-as-carrot" isn't quite correct. If anything, it drove me away. I've never been that into secret societies. But more than that, the product doesn't match the marketing. That is, the marketing of "sacred so secret" doesn't do a good job of selling the product. The secrecy makes it seem like the washings and annointings, the clothing, and the true order of prayer are what's important. But those are the items that left a disturbing distaste in my mouth the first time. The most sacred parts of the temple are found in the scriptures. I think we should demystify it, and that, much more than the carrot of mystery, would encourage temple attendance, and help prepare those attending for the first time.

[RobinFinderson]

The secrecy makes it seem like the washings and annointings, the clothing, and the true order of prayer are what's important. But those are the items that left a disturbing distaste in my mouth the first time.

The W&A were seriously the weirdest thing. If Big Love were really out to stick a finger in the church's eye, they would have focused on the W&A.

[Jeff Lebowski]

...but I feel like the only times there I have been really impacted by the Spirit is when I was there for my own work (endowments, marriage/sealing).

This parallels my experience. I hear people talk about the great insights they get by repeated visits. For whatever reason, this has never happened for me. And not for lack of trying. I hate to admit it, but it bores me to tears. Consequently, I don't go much.

[All-American]

I concur. The biggest problem with temple worship is that it is a form that is completely foreign to those only acquainted with Sunday meetings. If you had only ever attended sacrament meeting, Sunday school would seem very strange.

I was speaking with my very hot friend last night who is about to go through the temple prior to leaving on her mission (in spite of my efforts to provide alternatives. Sigh). Her stake has no temple prep class-- they give them the little pamphlet which President Packer wrote and thought it sufficient. I found that a little disturbing. I proceeded to give her a fifteen minute synopsis of what to expect, hoping that it will make for a better experience.

Rite and ritual are just so different from other forms of worship that those unfamiliar with them are out of their element. With a little understanding of what goes on, though, there's really no reason people who go for the first time should not have a great experience.

[Indy Coug]

I think about the person I'm doing the work for, who they were, what they're doing and whether or not they are up in the rafters watching the proceedings.

I don't really care what I personally get out of it. That said, what I get out of it is a time of quiet reflection, self-evaluation and occasionally personal revelation about a facet of the temple ceremony or about something else going on in my life.

[TripletDaddy]

I like attending the temple with my wife. Whether the Church is actually true is beside the point. We both believe it to be true and at the end of the ceremony, we are sitting there together in the Celestial Room in a place we both believe to be the most holy on Earth. It is quite a bonding experience.

I have no specific comparisons for atheists, non-LDS, etc....but whatever it is that those of other beliefs hold to be the absolute most important thing of their existence.....to share it with their spouse is a sacred and bonding experience.

That is what the temple means to me. The sit down stand up stuff is secondary to me. Being with my wife (or friends) is the good stuff. That, and the reasonably priced cafeteria food, including carrot cake with the frosted carrot on top, as if we all don't know what carrot cake looks like.....

[beelzebabette]

That, and the reasonably priced cafeteria food, including carrot cake with the frosted carrot on top, as if we all don't know what carrot cake looks like.....

I've never been in a temple cafeteria. Please rate, on a scale of 1-10, the level of life experience I have been forgoing.

[TripletDaddy]

I've never been in a temple cafeteria. Please rate, on a scale of 1-10, the level of life experience I have been forgoing.

Sorry. I don't think we are supposed to discuss it outside of the temple cafeteria.

[Brian]

Very interesting discussion.
How many of you have met/discussed the temple w/ someone you felt *really* understood what the symbols mean?

I have had contact with only two people, never "met" either of them. A dude named Bob with an email account and Max Skousen's Temple Book.
But, I did talk to Max on the phone, so that's getting closer.


And I missed out on all the BigLove fun. I'll have to google to see what was on the show. Maybe I can catch it on a rerun.

[Brian]

I've never been in a temple cafeteria. Please rate, on a scale of 1-10, the level of life experience I have been forgoing.

i served spaghetti once in the atlanta temple on a ward assignment. I provided a level 7 experience. Extra meatballs for the foxier looking blue hairs.