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  • For some of you more progressive

    thinkers on the board, RF, what do you think of the French rioting in the streets because retirement age is going up to age 62. If they have a crisis, what do they think, F everyone else we need to get ours. If we keep handing out more and more benefits, is that what we have to look forward to here.

    I also saw a clip of Speaker Pelosi. She seemed to be saying we not only need to address the inequality in after tax income of people, but also the amount of assets they own.

    Wahoo, some microsoft stcok and Berkshire stock might be coming my way from Bill and Warren.

  • #2
    If the French are rioting over this, I can only conclude their education system is even worse than America's.
    Everything in life is an approximation.

    http://twitter.com/CougarStats

    Comment


    • #3
      I'm not as progressive as Robin, but my initial reaction was that this is the mentality of a child who throws a tantrum when they find out they won't be getting a pony for Christmas. To them, mom and dad (the government) are just a bottomless piggy bank and feasibility is not their problem, nor does it even cross many of their minds.

      62 is not that old to retire.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by byu71 View Post
        thinkers on the board, RF, what do you think of the French rioting in the streets because retirement age is going up to age 62. If they have a crisis, what do they think, F everyone else we need to get ours. If we keep handing out more and more benefits, is that what we have to look forward to here.
        What if our government raised the social security age to some something higher? Those close to being senior citizens will take the streets. Nobody in DC wants to touch that one given the baby boomer voter base.

        I also saw a clip of Speaker Pelosi. She seemed to be saying we not only need to address the inequality in after tax income of people, but also the amount of assets they own.
        When Pelosi donates her own personal wealth (est. at $25M to $92M) to the government then please let me know.
        "If there is one thing I am, it's always right." -Ted Nugent.
        "I honestly believe saying someone is a smart lawyer is damning with faint praise. The smartest people become engineers and scientists." -SU.
        "Yet I still see wisdom in that which Uncle Ted posts." -creek.
        GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by byu71 View Post
          thinkers on the board, RF, what do you think of the French rioting in the streets because retirement age is going up to age 62. If they have a crisis, what do they think, F everyone else we need to get ours. If we keep handing out more and more benefits, is that what we have to look forward to here.

          I also saw a clip of Speaker Pelosi. She seemed to be saying we not only need to address the inequality in after tax income of people, but also the amount of assets they own.

          Wahoo, some microsoft stcok and Berkshire stock might be coming my way from Bill and Warren.
          I don't know enough about French culture to say whether or not the rioting is justifiable or not. Different cultures have different social contracts. Social contracts are the unwritten expectations that citizens of a country have from their government. Because social contracts are unwritten, and because individuals within a society have wildly different ideas about what the social contract is, judging any particular riot is best left to those who are most deeply steeped in the cultural expectations where the rioting is happening.

          Americans, and in particular conservative Americans, tend not to have any understanding and/or appreciation for the social contracts of other countries. I think that this has to do with a sense that the American way of doing things is somehow more 'natural' than other ways of doing things. This especially holds true when it comes to discussing 'free markets,' where American conservatives tend to think that free markets will always generate the best results for humans. American values are more free-market-oriented than the values of many other countries.

          So different countries have different values and different social contracts. There are going to be benefits and disadvantages to each system of values (and the accompanying government). As a libertarian, I'm a person who thinks our free-market values are pretty cool, and that free markets should be allowed to operate with minimum government intrusion. As a progressive, I recognize that 'markets' are human inventions, and that just because something CAN be bought and sold on a market, doesn't mean that it SHOULD be bought and sold on a market. Slavery and child labor are two historic 'commodities' that should not be bought and sold. Regulation is important in those markets where the products are dangerous to people (markets that create dangerous pollution, or dangerous weapons, or dangerous financial products that could easily cause total economic collapse). I am also of the opinion that certain things should not be turned into commodities, and that it should be a part of all social contracts that governments maintain and provide free access to clean air, clean water, and arable land, ie. those things that sustain life. I'm with Thomas Paine who felt that real estate is an abomination, like slavery and child labor. It is one of the things that we buy and sell because it was easy to create a market for land, but few people reflect on whether or not such a market should have been established in the first place.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Ted Nugent View Post
            What if our government raised the social security age to some something higher? Those close to being senior citizens will take the streets. Nobody in DC wants to touch that one given the baby boomer voter base.
            Our government has raised the retirement age several times. And, like France and other euro countries, it is always raised upwards for the young without changing it for those nearing retirement. We have had no riots. We are currently up to 67,

            We also decided to tax the benefits...still no riots.

            So, what would happen if our government did it? Not much.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Jacob View Post
              Our government has raised the retirement age several times. And, like France and other euro countries, it is always raised upwards for the young without changing it for those nearing retirement. We have had no riots. We are currently up to 67,

              We also decided to tax the benefits...still no riots.

              So, what would happen if our government did it? Not much.
              That's true. So what the hell is the french gripping about raising it 62?
              "If there is one thing I am, it's always right." -Ted Nugent.
              "I honestly believe saying someone is a smart lawyer is damning with faint praise. The smartest people become engineers and scientists." -SU.
              "Yet I still see wisdom in that which Uncle Ted posts." -creek.
              GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Jacob View Post
                Our government has raised the retirement age several times. And, like France and other euro countries, it is always raised upwards for the young without changing it for those nearing retirement. We have had no riots. We are currently up to 67,

                We also decided to tax the benefits...still no riots.

                So, what would happen if our government did it? Not much.
                I dont think we raised the age, we adjusted the benefit level. You can still retire with benfits at 62, you just dont get as much as you would if you retire at 67 (nor as much as waiting until 70).

                Beisdes, the French love a good riot/revolution. Look at their history. This is like going back to their roots. Here we celebrate the fourth of july with fireowrks. There they muster in the streets and storm some ideological bastille every so often.
                PLesa excuse the tpyos.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by creekster View Post
                  Beisdes, the French love a good riot/revolution. Look at their history. This is like going back to their roots. Here we celebrate the fourth of july with fireowrks. There they muster in the streets and storm some ideological bastille every so often.
                  I hate when they mess with the TDF.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    We really might get rioting when we stop living the lie that we have been living for the past 30 years with regard to keeping taxes low and trying to maintain benefits to something like a sustained level.

                    Of course our riots may be over having to pay increased taxes depending or rapidly declining benefits upon who is in charge.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by New Mexican Disaster View Post
                      We really might get rioting when we stop living the lie that we have been living for the past 30 years with regard to keeping taxes low and trying to maintain benefits to something like a sustained level.

                      Of course our riots may be over having to pay increased taxes depending or rapidly declining benefits upon who is in charge.
                      Or perhaps we could stop wasting so much money on entitlements and pork.
                      "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance and the gospel of envy; its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." - Winston Churchill


                      "I only know what I hear on the news." - Dear Leader

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        In the 1950s, the SNAKE (American society) ate a great big fat PIG (baby-boom generation), which has been gainfully employed and causing the American economy to be productive and thrive since the the pig was empoyed. Now the snake is about to poop out the pig as babyboomers retire, and that is why the American economy sucks and will suck even more in coming decades.
                        That which may be asserted without evidence may be dismissed without evidence. -C. Hitchens

                        http://twitter.com/SoonerCoug

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by RobinFinderson View Post
                          I don't know enough about French culture to say whether or not the rioting is justifiable or not. Different cultures have different social contracts. Social contracts are the unwritten expectations that citizens of a country have from their government. Because social contracts are unwritten, and because individuals within a society have wildly different ideas about what the social contract is, judging any particular riot is best left to those who are most deeply steeped in the cultural expectations where the rioting is happening.

                          Americans, and in particular conservative Americans, tend not to have any understanding and/or appreciation for the social contracts of other countries. I think that this has to do with a sense that the American way of doing things is somehow more 'natural' than other ways of doing things. This especially holds true when it comes to discussing 'free markets,' where American conservatives tend to think that free markets will always generate the best results for humans. American values are more free-market-oriented than the values of many other countries.

                          So different countries have different values and different social contracts. There are going to be benefits and disadvantages to each system of values (and the accompanying government). As a libertarian, I'm a person who thinks our free-market values are pretty cool, and that free markets should be allowed to operate with minimum government intrusion. As a progressive, I recognize that 'markets' are human inventions, and that just because something CAN be bought and sold on a market, doesn't mean that it SHOULD be bought and sold on a market. Slavery and child labor are two historic 'commodities' that should not be bought and sold. Regulation is important in those markets where the products are dangerous to people (markets that create dangerous pollution, or dangerous weapons, or dangerous financial products that could easily cause total economic collapse). I am also of the opinion that certain things should not be turned into commodities, and that it should be a part of all social contracts that governments maintain and provide free access to clean air, clean water, and arable land, ie. those things that sustain life. I'm with Thomas Paine who felt that real estate is an abomination, like slavery and child labor. It is one of the things that we buy and sell because it was easy to create a market for land, but few people reflect on whether or not such a market should have been established in the first place.
                          You, sir, are no libertarian. Being libertarian when it comes to drugs and sex doesn't make one libertarian. And note that I'm not talking about Big L Libertarian. Your ideals on a number of subjects are far from libertarian.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by RobinFinderson View Post
                            I don't know enough about French culture to say whether or not the rioting is justifiable or not. Different cultures have different social contracts. Social contracts are the unwritten expectations that citizens of a country have from their government. Because social contracts are unwritten, and because individuals within a society have wildly different ideas about what the social contract is, judging any particular riot is best left to those who are most deeply steeped in the cultural expectations where the rioting is happening.

                            Americans, and in particular conservative Americans, tend not to have any understanding and/or appreciation for the social contracts of other countries. I think that this has to do with a sense that the American way of doing things is somehow more 'natural' than other ways of doing things. This especially holds true when it comes to discussing 'free markets,' where American conservatives tend to think that free markets will always generate the best results for humans. American values are more free-market-oriented than the values of many other countries.

                            So different countries have different values and different social contracts. There are going to be benefits and disadvantages to each system of values (and the accompanying government). As a libertarian, I'm a person who thinks our free-market values are pretty cool, and that free markets should be allowed to operate with minimum government intrusion. As a progressive, I recognize that 'markets' are human inventions, and that just because something CAN be bought and sold on a market, doesn't mean that it SHOULD be bought and sold on a market. Slavery and child labor are two historic 'commodities' that should not be bought and sold. Regulation is important in those markets where the products are dangerous to people (markets that create dangerous pollution, or dangerous weapons, or dangerous financial products that could easily cause total economic collapse). I am also of the opinion that certain things should not be turned into commodities, and that it should be a part of all social contracts that governments maintain and provide free access to clean air, clean water, and arable land, ie. those things that sustain life. I'm with Thomas Paine who felt that real estate is an abomination, like slavery and child labor. It is one of the things that we buy and sell because it was easy to create a market for land, but few people reflect on whether or not such a market should have been established in the first place.
                            This might be the longest post that says nothing at all.

                            The French riot because they want a vacation. They usually spend two or there weeks away from work then they go back like nothing ever happened. The only casualties are a few hundred cars and maybe a building or two. I happens just about every fall and spring but it never happens in august because they already get that month off.
                            "Discipleship is not a spectator sport. We cannot expect to experience the blessing of faith by standing inactive on the sidelines any more than we can experience the benefits of health by sitting on a sofa watching sporting events on television and giving advice to the athletes. And yet for some, “spectator discipleship” is a preferred if not primary way of worshipping." -Pres. Uchtdorf

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by BigFatMeanie View Post
                              You, sir, are no libertarian. Being libertarian when it comes to drugs and sex doesn't make one libertarian. And note that I'm not talking about Big L Libertarian. Your ideals on a number of subjects are far from libertarian.
                              Sure I am. Like most libertarians, I want as much free enterprise to be handled by the private sector as possible. But where we culturally have decided that something is important enough that all people should have access to it (education, medical care, police service, fire service, military, minimum wage, etc.), if the private sector doesn't produce a satisfactory choice at a reasonable price for all people, then there is nothing wrong with the people deciding to take care of those needs collectively.

                              Originally posted by Eddie Jones View Post
                              This might be the longest post that says nothing at all.

                              The French riot because they want a vacation. They usually spend two or there weeks away from work then they go back like nothing ever happened. The only casualties are a few hundred cars and maybe a building or two. I happens just about every fall and spring but it never happens in august because they already get that month off.
                              *sigh* some people's social contracts seem much better than others'.

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