LDS obsession with debt

[KillerDog]

I find the LDS obsession with debt to be one of the more interesting aspects of the modern Church. The extremity with which this is approached is unreasonable and not based in sound economic principles. I think it was caused by the speculative and gambling nature of the early Church. I think there was a period of extremism that was initially intended to balance the tendencies of the populace.

I think the outgrowth of this obsession with debt has taken on a life of its own. In many ways I see parallels between the debt obsession and the temperance movement/obsession within the Church. There are even parallels in time. It is almost as though one particular Church president looked at the vices of the people and then endeavored to fix the vices that he thought most damaging.

Unfortunately, the end result of the debt fear is occasionally worse than the risk of too much debt. I believe Mormons generally try and avoid "unapproved" debt but don't have lower debt to income ratios. I think the LDS population makes up their debt deficit by over purchasing in the home market. The become house poor because they think credit card debt is evil. Thus, their debt to income ratio is the same as their gentile brethren it is just in a different place.

[FMCoug]

I find the LDS obsession with debt to be one of the more interesting aspects of the modern Church. The extremity with which this is approached is unreasonable and not based in sound economic principles. I think it was caused by the speculative and gambling nature of the early Church. I think there was a period of extremism that was initially intended to balance the tendencies of the populace.

I think the outgrowth of this obsession with debt has taken on a life of its own. In many ways I see parallels between the debt obsession and the temperance movement/obsession within the Church. There are even parallels in time. It is almost as though one particular Church president looked at the vices of the people and then endeavored to fix the vices that he thought most damaging.

Unfortunately, the end result of the debt fear is occasionally worse than the risk of too much debt. I believe Mormons generally try and avoid "unapproved" debt but don't have lower debt to income ratios. I think the LDS population makes up their debt deficit by over purchasing in the home market. The become house poor because they think credit card debt is evil. Thus, their debt to income ratio is the same as their gentile brethren it is just in a different place.

You raise an interesting point. It seems the talks in which avoiding debt is mentioned are generally more about living withing / below our means ... but maybe all that is heard is "stay out of debt except for a house". Interesting take. Maybe one way to look at this is that overspending is overspending whether you make 50K and are doing it on credit cards or 200K and paying cash ...

[Hallelujah]

I find the LDS obsession with debt to be one of the more interesting aspects of the modern Church. The extremity with which this is approached is unreasonable and not based in sound economic principles. I think it was caused by the speculative and gambling nature of the early Church. I think there was a period of extremism that was initially intended to balance the tendencies of the populace.

I think the outgrowth of this obsession with debt has taken on a life of its own. In many ways I see parallels between the debt obsession and the temperance movement/obsession within the Church. There are even parallels in time. It is almost as though one particular Church president looked at the vices of the people and then endeavored to fix the vices that he thought most damaging.

Unfortunately, the end result of the debt fear is occasionally worse than the risk of too much debt. I believe Mormons generally try and avoid "unapproved" debt but don't have lower debt to income ratios. I think the LDS population makes up their debt deficit by over purchasing in the home market. The become house poor because they think credit card debt is evil. Thus, their debt to income ratio is the same as their gentile brethren it is just in a different place.

You mean GBH's obsession? I agree, we should have more debt. If we had more debt, we wouldn't be in the financial mess we are in. I never thought of that. I think some members overextend on the approved debt because they will eventually be blessed if they live a righteous life.

[TripletDaddy]

There is a nutty guy on CB that refuses to own a credit card. I can't remember who that was, but it clearly is a strange approach.

If I remember correctly, I believe he lives with his parents in the basement, as well, which may explain such an unrealistic approach to personal finances.

[FMCoug]

You mean GBH's obsession? I agree, we should have more debt. If we had more debt, we wouldn't be in the financial mess we are in. I never thought of that.

I don't think that's what he was saying. He was saying that a lot of LDS feel like they are following the "letter of the law" by avoiding credit card debt yet are in just as precarious a financial position as those who run up credit card debt. Which I think is probably a valid point.

[Donuthole]

I disagree. I think the people who have purchased too much house have done so in contrary to instructions that a modest mortgage is acceptable debt. In the face of such teachings, those who have purchased a home beyond their budget weren't really being honest with themselves about their interpretation of the word "modest".

[Donuthole]

I don't think that's what he was saying. He was saying that a lot of LDS feel like they are following the "letter of the law" by avoiding credit card debt yet are in just as precarious a financial position as those who run up credit card debt. Which I think is probably a valid point.

Yes, but they knew all along that they weren't following the spirit of the law, IMO.

[Hallelujah]

I don't think that's what he was saying. He was saying that a lot of LDS feel like they are following the "letter of the law" by avoiding credit card debt yet are in just as precarious a financial position as those who run up credit card debt. Which I think is probably a valid point.

Never met them where I live. Normally they are in debt in both house and credit card. It's not an either or. It's a both.

[kccougar]

I don't find it strange given the consistency of the church message to avoid ANYTHING that will restrict agency, be it alcohol, tobacco, or debt.

[beelzebabette]

There is a nutty guy on CB that refuses to own a credit card. I can't remember who that was, but it clearly is a strange approach.

brazilcoug

[FMCoug]

Yes, but they knew all along that they weren't following the spirit of the law, IMO.

True. Let's be honest ... if we were truly folllowing the spirit of the law, including that of consecration, most posters here would be living much more modest lifestyles than they do. Generally speaking, most Mormons are the same as everyone else in that our lifestyles tend to be based on our incomve level, not what are truly "needs".

I of course include myself in that indictment.

[KillerDog]

You mean GBH's obsession? I agree, we should have more debt. If we had more debt, we wouldn't be in the financial mess we are in. I never thought of that. I think some members overextend on the approved debt because they will eventually be blessed if they live a righteous life.

I'm not really sure what you are talking about. I'm not advocating having more debt. I'm commenting on the obsession regarding debt that the membership of the Church has taken from a number of prophets and general authorities. Interestingly, they misunderstand, misread, and mishear the advice to not spend beyond your means as a prohibition on all debt except home ownership and a free pass on owning as much home as you would like.

I assume your second and third sentences are supposed to mean something but I'm not sure what they mean or how they relate.

Are you really the artist formerly known as exUte? I don't believe it. I may not have agreed with exUte but at least he wasn't stupid. In this iteration...

[KillerDog]

Yes, but they knew all along that they weren't following the spirit of the law, IMO.

I don't think so. I think they feel like they can own more home because they don't have other debt. This rationale results in equal debt to income ratios while, in the minds of many, meeting the commandment to stay out of debt.

[FMCoug]

I don't think so. I think they feel like they can own more home because they don't have other debt. This rationale results in equal debt to income ratios while, in the minds of many, meeting the commandment to stay out of debt.

Mormons do tend to be in love with the letter of the law. The same rationale which leads peopl to not watch Schindler's List but think Blades of Glory is fine ... because one is rated R and one is PG-13.

[Hallelujah]

I'm not really sure what you are talking about. I'm not advocating having more debt. I'm commenting on the obsession regarding debt that the membership of the Church has taken from a number of prophets and general authorities. Interestingly, they misunderstand, misread, and mishear the advice to not spend beyond your means as a prohibition on all debt except home ownership and a free pass on owning as much home as you would like.

I assume your second and third sentences are supposed to mean something but I'm not sure what they mean or how they relate.

Are you really the artist formerly known as exUte? I don't believe it. I may not have agreed with exUte but at least he wasn't stupid. In this iteration...

I believe you posted this: I find the LDS obsession with debt to be one of the more interesting aspects of the modern Church. The extremity with which this is approached is unreasonable and not based in sound economic principles.

How do you misinterpret that? Talk about stupid, Forest. (I hope personal attacks are welcome here. If not, I apologize.)