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View Full Version : Austin Collie and "Magic Happens"



LA Ute
11-20-2008, 04:02 PM
I have never asked this question of my friends who are BYU fans, so I will ask it here: When a player like Austin Collie (who is undeniably a great one) says something like this, does it induce any cringes? Now, I am a father of two sons Austin's age and I have worked with LDS youth for many years, so know young guys lack judgment and sometimes say dumb things. I just wonder what y'all think?

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creekster
11-20-2008, 04:04 PM
Nope. No more than stories about tithing in F&T meeintg helping people get a raise at work or some such. Do you tihnk it should?

smokymountainrain
11-20-2008, 04:04 PM
I have never asked this question of my friends who are BYU fans, so I will ask it here: When a player like Austin Collie (who is undeniably a great one) says something like this, does it induce any cringes? Now, I am a father of two sons Austin's age and I have worked with LDS youth for many years, so know young guys lack judgment and sometimes say dumb things. I just wonder what y'all think?

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I smile and don't give it a second thought. It should have been a non-issue.

RockyBalboa
11-20-2008, 04:09 PM
I've never let smack talk from either side or "controversial statements" from either side bother me. It just doesn't.

The rivalry has too many sensitive ninnies on both sides of it.

il Padrino Ute
11-20-2008, 04:12 PM
I just chalk it up to a college kid saying something dumb.

To be honest, the reactions of Ute fans that went berserk about Collie's comment made me laugh. BYU fans have had some great reactions to stupid things said by Ute players too.

It's a game that really has no bearing on my life, so it's not that big of a deal.

LA Ute
11-20-2008, 04:14 PM
Nope. No more than stories about tithing in F&T meeintg helping people get a raise at work or some such. Do you think it should?

Yeah, I guess I do. IMO, it's one thing to make such statements in fast and testimony meeting, and quite another to make them in the public eye -- and about a football game. But I realize this is an issue on which reasonable people disagree.

BigPiney
11-20-2008, 04:21 PM
But I realize this is an issue on which reasonable people disagree.

I don't think reasonable people disagree on this. It is unreasonable fans that make an issue out of what the players say.

creekster
11-20-2008, 04:21 PM
Yeah, I guess I do. IMO, it's one thing to make such statements in fast and testimony meeting, and quite another to make them in the public eye -- and about a football game. But I realize this is an issue on which reasonable people disagree.

The thing is, maybe it is true for him. Maybe living right helps him be disciplined and keep to a training schedule and so on and so it is the absolute truth from his POV. I might be bothered if I thought he was being sarcastic or disingenuous, but as I heard it when he first said it, it doesn't bother me. I wouldn't say it, but it doesn't bother me.

pelagius
11-20-2008, 04:23 PM
I view it as a very good thing. If players are giving nuanced theological opinions then that means they are spending time "thinking and reflecting" instead lifting, eating, and preparing for the game.

LA Ute
11-20-2008, 04:28 PM
I don't think reasonable people disagree on this. It is unreasonable fans that make an issue out of what the players say.

Hmmm. Well, I'm just saying that when Kurt Warner is congratulated on national TV for a great touchdown pass and he gives thanks to God for being so good to him, something about that rubs me the wrong way. (And I really like Kurt Warner,) I don't think that makes me unreasonable. I thought Collie's comment was ungracious. But I know he's just a kid and he was excited, and I know others see such things differently. It's all good.

LA Ute
11-20-2008, 04:29 PM
I view it as a very good thing. If players are giving nuanced theological opinions then that means they are spending time "thinking and reflecting" instead lifting, eating, and preparing for the game.

A perspective that had not occurred to me. Excellent. :rolleyes:

SCcoug
11-20-2008, 04:30 PM
Athletes, and sometimes coaches, say these kind of statements all the time. They don't bother me. I'd bet even some ute player has said something like that.

creekster
11-20-2008, 04:31 PM
Hmmm. Well, I'm just saying that when Kurt Warner is congratulated on national TV for a great touchdown pass and he gives thanks to God for being so good to him, something about that rubs me the wrong way. (And I really like Kurt Warner,) I don't think that makes me unreasonable. I thought Collie's comment was ungracious. But I know he's just a kid and he was excited, and I know others see such things differently. It's all good.

This goes back to SU's claim that christians must believe in a personal God. Do you believe God could bless someone with athletic prowess in a game or a career and, if so, why shouldn't they give public thanks for it?

LA Ute
11-20-2008, 04:33 PM
Athletes, and sometimes coaches, say these kind of statements all the time. They don't bother me. I'd bet even some ute player has said something like that.

Oh, no, Ute players never do that. They usually quote Aristotle. ;)

BigPiney
11-20-2008, 04:36 PM
Hmmm. Well, I'm just saying that when Kurt Warner is congratulated on national TV for a great touchdown pass and he gives thanks to God for being so good to him, something about that rubs me the wrong way. (And I really like Kurt Warner,) I don't think that makes me unreasonable. I thought Collie's comment was ungracious. But I know he's just a kid and he was excited, and I know others see such things differently. It's all good.

just giving you a hard time. Chalk this up as one of your pet peeves.

Colly Wolly
11-20-2008, 04:37 PM
Sakoda. Divine intervention to stop the wind on the last field goal against Oregon State. Jesus was in the MUSS and went "peace, be still". End of discussion.

LA Ute
11-20-2008, 04:41 PM
This goes back to SU's claim that christians must believe in a personal God. Do you believe God could bless someone with athletic prowess in a game or a career and, if so, why shouldn't they give public thanks for it?

Methinks thou art stretching a bit here, creekster . . . Collie wasn't thanking the Lord for giving him athletic prowess, he was saying he had help in making the big game-winning catch because he (Collie) was living righteously. I once had a chance to talk with Neal Maxwell about relationships between LDS and non-LDS people, and he observed that too often, we Mormons "say things to Laman and Lemuel that just make them act more like Laman and Lemuel." Collie's statement was in that category, I think.

Besides, there are some philosophical traps here. If BYU loses, does that mean they were not living right off the field? I don't think so.

But I've already talked much more about Collie's statement here than it deserves. I just wanted to known what level-headed BYU fans thought about it. Peace!

LA Ute
11-20-2008, 04:42 PM
just giving you a hard time. Chalk this up as one of your pet peeves.

Deal!!!

creekster
11-20-2008, 04:44 PM
Methinks thou art stretching a bit here, creekster . . . Collie wasn't thanking the Lord for giving him athletic prowess, he was saying he had help in making the big game-winning catch because he (Collie) was living righteously. I once had a chance to talk with Neal Maxwell about relationships between LDS and non-LDS people, and he observed that too often, we Mormons "say things to Laman and Lemuel that just make them act more like Laman and Lemuel." Collie's statement was in that category, I think.

Besides, there are some philosophical traps here. If BYU loses, does that mean they were not living right off the field? I don't think so.

But I've already talked much more about Collie's statement here than it deserves. I just wanted to known what level-headed BYU fans thought about it.

You're right, it is a stretch. OTOH, I am not sure exactly what he meant and I would hazard a guess that he really didn't think abotu it too deeply before he said it, which is why it doesn't really bother me.

I just hope we get more posts from you and your school chums complaining about more crowing by Collie after his big game. Check back!

venkman
11-20-2008, 04:49 PM
You're right, it is a stretch. OTOH, I am not sure exactly what he meant and I would hazard a guess that he really didn't think abotu it too deeply before he said it, which is why it doesn't really bother me.

I just hope we get more posts from you and your school chums complaining about more crowing by Collie after his big game. Check back!

That's how I feel too. Remember, the guy was less than a year off the mish at the time.

BigPiney
11-20-2008, 04:54 PM
http://www.cougaruteforum.com/showthread.php?t=315

cougjunkie
11-20-2008, 06:08 PM
Last week Kurt Warner said something very similar he said: I feel like when I am doing what the lord wants me to do off the field, I am blessed on the field.

I think most feel like if they do what is asked of them they will be blessed in other parts of their lives. If I do what I am supposed to I am of the belief that I will be blessed at work, as well as at home.

I dont think its a big deal, in no way did he say: "well the ute players werent doing what they should be and we were"

LA Ute
11-20-2008, 06:32 PM
Last week Kurt Warner said something very similar he said: I feel like when I am doing what the lord wants me to do off the field, I am blessed on the field.


When you have just beaten your bitter arch-rival on a great play, you can certainly give God credit. When you say you made the play because you are "doing the right things off the field," you are crediting your own righteousness. That's the problem. I'm a little surprised that no one here seems to see how others might see it that way.

I'm just sayin'. . . .

BlueHair
11-20-2008, 06:38 PM
I like that the Utes are still thinking about this and it is a possible distraction. I'm just pissed he gave away his secret. The Utes haven't lost a game since he gave it away.

LiveCoug
11-20-2008, 06:42 PM
Doesn't bug me in the least. Neither does it bug me when a ute player says something dumb.

Jeff Lebowski
11-20-2008, 06:50 PM
I think it was a dumb thing to say. But the fact that it rankles some of my Ute friends makes me smile and give him a pass.

LA Ute
11-20-2008, 07:00 PM
I'm just pissed he gave away his secret. The Utes haven't lost a game since he gave it away.

An excellent point. But a distraction? I wonder. One downside of such boasts is that they end up taped to opponents' lockers . . . .

I do wonder why I have such ahard time finding a Cougar fan who thinks that just maybe Austin shouldn't have said that. Or that Lenny Gomes shouldn't have made the pettiest sore loser statement I've ever heard all those years ago.

Of course, Utes are always wonderful and gracious, win or lose.;)

bYuPride
11-20-2008, 10:02 PM
Hell of a player. It's always a hilarious guessing game when he speaks. My Ute friends are just waiting for him to say something 'controversial'.. I think it's more entertaining watching my buddies.

TripletDaddy
11-20-2008, 10:45 PM
Am I the only one who thought he was simply doing a little bit of trolling? Having fun and kind of rubbing the Utes noses in it?

I never got the impression that he truly beleived God blessed him for living right...esp since many of the football players are not living right off the field.

Dont take post-game comments so literally.

I hate to break it to you, but Joe Montana really wasn't going to Disneyland. He probably went home.

LA Ute
11-20-2008, 10:55 PM
Am I the only one who thought he was simply doing a little bit of trolling? Having fun and kind of rubbing the Utes noses in it?

You know, you may well be!

TripletDaddy
11-20-2008, 11:02 PM
You know, you may well be!

I am not sure if you are trying to get my attention here, but for someone who constantly bemoans the lack of civility on CG, you seem to have an awful lot of b-grade barbs to throw out. "I'm sorry, Jay Santos...forgive me for I have sinned!"

That is fine by me...just let me know now if we are going to have to endure any more of your pleas for civility followed closely by public apologies and emoticons tomorrow.

Have I found my new friend here on CUF? Awesome.

il Padrino Ute
11-21-2008, 01:08 AM
Am I the only one who thought he was simply doing a little bit of trolling? Having fun and kind of rubbing the Utes noses in it?

I never got the impression that he truly beleived God blessed him for living right...esp since many of the football players are not living right off the field.

Dont take post-game comments so literally.

I hate to break it to you, but Joe Montana really wasn't going to Disneyland. He probably went home.

Montana was also trying to throw the ball away when Clark made him look so good.

PaloAltoCougar
11-21-2008, 07:00 AM
Of course, Utes are always wonderful and gracious, win or lose.;)

Wayne Howard is in the house!


...it's one thing to make such statements in fast and testimony meeting, and quite another to make them in the public eye -- and about a football game. But I realize this is an issue on which reasonable people disagree.


Well, I'm UNreasonable, and I disagree too, as I don't get this distinction. Fast and Testimony Meeting, includes an immediate audience of what, say, 200 or so. The setting is typically quiet and contemplative. People who speak do so voluntarily, and usually after much reflection. Collie, a recently returned missionary, was talking to a person with a mike in his/her hand immediately after an extremely intense football game in which he had just turned in an extraordinary play.

Sure, what he said was naive, but if it causes Ute fans to parse his outburst years later, I think it ought to be etched in the big rock next to the Wolverines monument.

Goatnapper'96
11-21-2008, 07:26 AM
But I've already talked much more about Collie's statement here than it deserves. I just wanted to known what level-headed BYU fans thought about it. Peace!

I thought the entire event was one of the funniest rivalry events of my lifetime. I really was not bothered by it, I say that honestly and I believe I am far more levelheaded than most. I think anyone who could have been bothered by those comments lacks what I might call "testicular fortitude" and suffers from a syndrome of looking for offense. Perhaps Brigham Young might have once commented on the subject.

Personally, I was far more offended that Mendenhall stole a phrase from Shakespeare! Now that is reason to take offense! :D:D:D:D

LA Ute
11-21-2008, 07:48 AM
Have I found my new friend here on CUF? Awesome.

Sorry you took it that way. I'm not looking for fights. And your post, to which I was responding, was not without barbs.

LA Ute
11-21-2008, 07:52 AM
I really was not bothered by it, I say that honestly and I believe I am far more levelheaded than most.

Goat, I am looking for the day when any representative of BYU sports says anything that bothers you. Will that day ever come? :rolleyes:

LA Ute
11-21-2008, 07:53 AM
Wayne Howard is in the house!


Fast and Testimony Meeting, includes an immediate audience of what, say, 200 or so. The setting is typically quiet and contemplative. People who speak do so voluntarily, and usually after much reflection. Collie, a recently returned missionary, was talking to a person with a mike in his/her hand immediately after an extremely intense football game in which he had just turned in an extraordinary play.

There are just too darn many lawyers here.

Sleeping in EQ
11-21-2008, 08:15 AM
I can't be alone in thinking that Austin may well have said what he did for the express purpose of getting Ute fans' goats.

Goatnapper'96
11-21-2008, 08:22 AM
Goat, I am looking for the day when any representative of BYU sports says anything that bothers you. Will that day ever come? :rolleyes:

That day is likely to come the day after something said by a Ute player bothers me. I wouldn't hold your breath.:D:D:D

LA Ute
11-21-2008, 08:30 AM
I can't be alone in thinking that Austin may well have said what he did for the express purpose of getting Ute fans' goats.

That's a definite possibility. I remember thinking at the time heard it, "Wow, what a thing to say. We're going to be hearing about that one for a while.". And here I am, contributing to that! But it's rivalry week, and such things are just part of the scenery.

I will say, my Cougar brethren, that I find the extent to which you are unwilling to say anything disapproving about Collie's statement very interesting (and a little surprising).

Now, where is that asbestos suit I seem to need every year at about this time?

Goatnapper'96
11-21-2008, 08:32 AM
I can't be alone in thinking that Austin may well have said what he did for the express purpose of getting Ute fans' goats.

Ya think? No, it is always something much deeper and involving much deeper thought with the BYU. You understand the religion believes it is the only true church, correct? Collie understands implicitly that he should always be on alert how others might possibly interpret his comments and the fact that the losing team in the BYU-Utah rivalry always has a huge victim complex and will be looking for something, anything to pull string about and reinforce their image of their own moral superiority.

Perhaps Austin is aware that the loss would turn Utah fans into emasculated snivelling whiners and he might have purposely thrown a match into that kerosene? The thought!

Personally, I can empathize with Collie. If there is one angle I would have reveled in the chance to ignite some flames of this rivalry it would be this one. I know I am petty, but few things cause me more chuckles than an angle that God loves BYU more than Utah. It throws those not of the LDS faith into full bore attack mode with respect to the monopoly on truth angle and throws the ALUF into the most self righteous mode of piety proclaiming that BYU always misrepresents their faith and that the world should view their example as the truest and most livingestest example of mormonia! It kills me how much this game means to folks. It made for a couple of the most entertaining weeks of the year. Sadly, I lament that tommorrow evening is not likely to be as nearly entertaining for me but methinks the Ute fan will find much titillation as BYU fans find ways to claim persecution and the world hating them.

PaloAltoCougar
11-21-2008, 08:40 AM
I will say, my Cougar brethren, that I find the extent to which you are unwilling to say anything disapproving about Collie's statement very interesting (and a little surprising).


??? Three BYU fans in this thread have characterized Collie's quip as "dumb,", "naive," and "trolling." On Utefans these adjectives might be laudatory, but not in these parts. Will you find no peace until the Cougar collective unanimously adopts a resolution to take Collie out back and beats the crap out of him? So moved. But after tomorrow.

LA Ute
11-21-2008, 08:53 AM
??? Three BYU fans in this thread have characterized Collie's quip as "dumb,", "naive," and "trolling." On Utefans these adjectives might be laudatory, but not in these parts. Will you find no peace until the Cougar collective unanimously adopts a resolution to take Collie out back and beats the crap out of him? So moved. But after tomorrow.

Well, Austin's one of those BYU players like Danny Ainge was - a gift that keeps on giving. Also a great player who backs up his smack with great feats on the field. I also am always reminding myself that the BYU players who behave badly could have been in my Scout troop or on my Varsity team or in a high priests group leadership with me. So, doggonit, I can't hate them! You have no idea how much this distresses me.

No need to beat the crap out of him. If Utah simply wins tomorrow, I won't care what Austin Collie says about anything. But I live for the day when one of you says to me, even in private, "You know, I really wish Collie wouldn't say things like that."

At the end of the day, he's still Brother Collie. (Doggonit, again.) Thank you for indulging my Rivalry Week bloviations.

New Mexican Disaster
11-21-2008, 09:22 AM
Collie's comment was cringe inducing to me. But it was overcome by the great, great mirth that came from a silly but innocuous cooment that was taken as a new cross to bear by the Ute faithful. Utes ought to know where that comment stems from-it was fast and testimony meeting mysticism spilling over onto Saturday (which after all is the day we get ready for Sunday). It would have been MORE cringe inducing if it would have been met with an awkward silence.

LA Ute
11-21-2008, 10:10 AM
It would have been MORE cringe inducing if it would have been met with an awkward silence.

Good point. If only people (including, prominently, me) could exercise such restraint.

LA Ute
11-21-2008, 10:14 AM
It kills me how much this game means to folks.

This, coming from a man who once stole a poor dumb animal and terrorized it for a day, simply because it was the mascot of his hated rival? From a man whose alma mater displays, prominently, on the roof of campus building, the words "BEAT NAVY?"

:D

Goatnapper'96
11-21-2008, 10:27 AM
This, coming from a man who once stole a poor dumb animal and terrorized it for a day, simply because it was the mascot of his hated rival? From a man whose alma mater displays, prominently, on the roof of campus building, the words "BEAT NAVY?"

:D

THERE IS NO SUBSTITUTE FOR VICTORY!
---Gen MacArthur

You see the Army-Navy classic is about the game. The BYU-Utah game is about one culture triumphing over another. Once the Army-Navy game ends warriors on both sides join hands in the glory of the event, in fact my senior year the Army team captain went to the Navy locker room to embrace a tearful Navy captain who was finishing his Middie career without a win over his respected rival. When the BYU-Utah game ends whiners go to their blog sites to whine about how they were abused, how the officiating sucked, how some players comments demonstrates the perils of the affiliated institution's educational methodology and how the opposing team is really overrated. I am calling my shot now that the BYU faithful will take the overrated angle saturday evening to justify why Utah does not deserve a BCS bowl game.

One has a very high testicular fortitude coeffecient, one does not. I cannot recall ever reading a quote that said "I need an officer to lead a secret and dangerous mission...I need a University of Utah or BYU football player!"

Don't get me wrong, I dislike the fact that many BYU fans are also whining pussies, but in my defense my memory of that is a bit clouded with time. ;););)

ERCougar
11-22-2008, 10:48 AM
When I first heard the quote, I didn't give it a second thought. Later, as I heard the controversy over it, I just rolled my eyes. It's ridiculous to even give that much thought to what a 21 yo says (ESPECIALLY one less than a year off his mission...have you really never heard some the stupid recently returned missionaris say?).

What did you think about Mack's quote before last year's game about having more "moves" than Unga (paraphrasing...I'm afraid I don't devote nearly as much time stewing over rivals' quotes)? That's the kind of thing that would me cringe more than anything.