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  • Torture?

    LA authorities plan to use heat-beam ray in prison.

    The mechanism, known as an "Assault Intervention Device," is a stripped-down version of a military gadget that sends highly focused beams of energy at people and makes them feel as though they are burning. The Los Angeles County sheriff's department plans to install the device by Labor Day, making it the first time in the world the technology has been deployed in such a capacity.
    The ACLU is arguing that this is torture, but the director of technology over the sheriff's office said:

    "The neat thing with this device is you experience pain but you are not injured by it."
    Neat? Hmmmmm . . . Perhaps just a poor word choice, but still caused me to raise an eyebrow. Anyway, the 8th amendment implications are interesting. Is it torture if it just causes physical pain but no injury? If indeed, the device was only used as described in the article, is it torture?:

    The natural response when blasted — to leap out the way — would be helpful in bringing difficult inmates under control and quelling riots, the sheriff said.
    "You know, I was looking at your shirt and your scarf and I was thinking that if you had leaned over, I could have seen everything." ~Trial Ad Judge

  • #2
    This isn't being used for interrogation.

    The natural response when blasted — to leap out the way — would be helpful in bringing difficult inmates under control and quelling riots, the sheriff said.
    So you can spray automatic gunfire into a crowd, or you can use non-lethal intervention like a heat ray. Hmmm.....
    Everything in life is an approximation.

    http://twitter.com/CougarStats

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Indy Coug View Post
      This isn't being used for interrogation.



      So you can spray automatic gunfire into a crowd, or you can use non-lethal intervention like a heat ray. Hmmm.....
      Your point is taken. I think the main concern, at least from ACLU's viewpoint, is that prisons are also infamous for inmate abuse. Since it doesn't actually cause physical damage, it'd be hard to prove misuse of the device, too.

      For the record, I'm not convinced one way or another.
      "You know, I was looking at your shirt and your scarf and I was thinking that if you had leaned over, I could have seen everything." ~Trial Ad Judge

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      • #4
        So are fire hoses torture too?

        When poet puts pen to paper imagination breathes life, finding hearth and home.
        -Mid Summer's Night Dream

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Mrs. Funk View Post
          Your point is taken. I think the main concern, at least from ACLU's viewpoint, is that prisons are also infamous for inmate abuse. Since it doesn't actually cause physical damage, it'd be hard to prove misuse of the device, too.

          For the record, I'm not convinced one way or another.
          I'm not going to defend the indiscriminate use of this, but it appears to be a better alternative than hand to hand combat or lethal force in trying to quell fights and riots.
          Everything in life is an approximation.

          http://twitter.com/CougarStats

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          • #6
            Indy's response made the point I was going to make.

            But as for the 8th amendment. It doesn't sound like they are going to use this as a form of punishment, so I don't think the "cruel and unusual punishment" clause would even come into play, unless they were going to use it for a reason other than crowd control or unless you could show that it actually does cause some kind of lasting injury.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Jacob View Post
              Indy's response made the point I was going to make.

              But as for the 8th amendment. It doesn't sound like they are going to use this as a form of punishment, so I don't think the "cruel and unusual punishment" clause would even come into play, unless they were going to use it for a reason other than crowd control or unless you could show that it actually does cause some kind of lasting injury.
              I think this my conclusion as well. Reading over the article again, I also read that:

              Angelica Arias, an attorney with the county's Office of Independent Review, which monitors the sheriff's department, said only deputies with special training would be able to use the device and a video would be automatically recorded each time it is operated.
              If the device triggers a video recording each time it is operated, the concerns about misuse are much less cogent.
              "You know, I was looking at your shirt and your scarf and I was thinking that if you had leaned over, I could have seen everything." ~Trial Ad Judge

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              • #8
                I'm not as anti-torture as many on here, but I would argue that there is no such as causing pain without injury, at the very least psychological. The long-term physiologic consequences of chronic or acute pain, regardless of underlying cause, are unknown, and a sheriff's dept spokesman is certainly not the definitive voice on the matter.

                Carry on.
                At least the Big Ten went after a big-time addition in Nebraska; the Pac-10 wanted a game so badly, it added Utah
                -Berry Trammel, 12/3/10

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by ERCougar View Post
                  I'm not as anti-torture as many on here, but I would argue that there is no such as causing pain without injury, at the very least psychological. The long-term physiologic consequences of chronic or acute pain, regardless of underlying cause, are unknown, and a sheriff's dept spokesman is certainly not the definitive voice on the matter.

                  Carry on.
                  You make a good point. It might be hard to argue that zapping somebody a few times to break up a fight will cause prolonged psychological disturbance, but frequent and prolonged exposure to pain (days, weeks, months?) is of course much more of a concern.
                  "You know, I was looking at your shirt and your scarf and I was thinking that if you had leaned over, I could have seen everything." ~Trial Ad Judge

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                  • #10
                    How about tear gas?

                    If that is acceptable, this should be.

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                    • #11
                      This is used when th einmnates have tried to rbreak out or have started to riot. It is not for interrogation or even part of the punishment process. Thus, it is not torutre as the inmate can choose whether to avoid it or not solely by their own conduct.
                      PLesa excuse the tpyos.

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                      • #12
                        Red Sox. bites. tongue.
                        Jesus wants me for a sunbeam.

                        "Cog dis is a bitch." -James Patterson

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by RedSox View Post
                          Red Sox. bites. tongue.
                          sounds like self torture.
                          Dio perdona tante cose per un’opera di misericordia
                          God forgives many things for an act of mercy
                          Alessandro Manzoni

                          Knock it off. This board has enough problems without a dose of middle-age lechery.

                          pelagius

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                          • #14
                            If taser guns are any indication of how tools like these will be used, I think they are better off not allowing them. People in authority tend to be trigger happy.
                            Just try it once. One beer or one cigarette or one porno movie won't hurt. - Dallin H. Oaks

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