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  • Firefighters - Overpaid or justly compensated

    I'm interested in this topic and it was being discussed a bit elsewhere, so I thought I'd do us the favor of starting a thread on it.

    As some have noticed and others have mentioned, firefighters in Clark County, Nevada (Las Vegas) make a lot of money - at least, it surprised me. Here, 65 of the top 100 highest paid county employees are firefighters. While some have suggested, rightly, that anyone who puts their life on the line for others deserves to be compensated, perhaps at a higher rate, at some point it becomes too much. Here, the average salary for all firefighters is over $100k.

    At McCarran (the airport), several firefighters made more than the airport's manager. Some make twice as much as the district attorney and Sheriff. A few years ago, one firefighter pulled in $600,000. In 2003, one Batallion Chief made $493,000. 285 firefighters (more than half) are making more than $100k. Currently, Clark county is facing a $200 million budget shortfall.

    It seems odd that salaries could get this outrageous without someone noticing before now. But in Clark County, the story is not just about salaries, its told in the over time and vacation pay. Some of these firefighters are earing $90k-$100k in overtime, in addition to their $100k+ salaries. One dude earned $98k in overtime, in addition to his $232k base pay.

    As one of the recent articles in Las Vegas points out, with all this overtime pay, Clark County must be a smoldering pile of rubble by now. But in reality, very few fires are being fought. The majority of all calls to the FD are medical emergencies. Often, according to an "anonymous source," the ambulances often call the FD to let them know they aren't needed, but the FD responds anyway.

    The scandal around here has been not about overtime pay itself, but how that overtime is reached. For example, if a firefighter calls in sick, another one is called in to replace him. The replacement will be paid overtime wages for that work. As I understand it, firefighters in Las Vegas call in sick more than twice as often as the rest of the county employees. They've set up a system where they sort of take turns calling in sick so that each of them can maximize the number of overtime days. The days they call in sick are made up when they get called in for an "extra" shift later on, and in the meantime they are being compensated at 1.5x their normal rate while still working their normal hours (and sometimes less than normal hours).

    I'm hoping some of this recent exposure in Las Vegas will put pressure on the FD to reduce this practice, but my little experience with Clark County government scandal suggests that it either won't stop at all or it will just pick back up when the headlines die down.
    Ain't it like most people, I'm no different. We love to talk on things we don't know about.

    "The only one of us who is so significant that Jeff owes us something simply because he decided to grace us with his presence is falafel." -- All-American

    GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

  • #2
    Way overpaid.
    "Be a philosopher. A man can compromise to gain a point. It has become apparent that a man can, within limits, follow his inclinations within the arms of the Church if he does so discreetly." - The Walking Drum

    "And here’s what life comes down to—not how many years you live, but how many of those years are filled with bullshit that doesn’t amount to anything to satisfy the requirements of some dickhead you’ll never get the pleasure of punching in the face." – Adam Carolla

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    • #3
      Is the issue then whether the base salary is too much, or their abuses of the system are too much. I can't really see which of the two you're pressing more.

      I think that you need firefighters who live where they fight fires. You can't have firefighters making $40k living in Summerlin. You need a high salary to afford to live somewhere, and having firefighters available in a sudden emergency is worth that money, in my opinion. Also, structure fires are not the only dangers. I don't know where to look, but I'd reckon that far more deaths occur by being hit by cars on the side of the road while helping someone, than from burning buildings. It is a dangerous job, but we need people to be there at the drop of a hat.

      Now, the abuses you've described are disgusting, and they should fire the lot and replace them. I'm sure that the highly-competitive salary could lure the best ones from other places to relocate to that smoky sandbox you call home.
      "Yeah, but never trust a Ph.D who has an MBA as well. The PhD symbolizes intelligence and discipline. The MBA symbolizes lust for power." -- Katy Lied

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      • #4
        The other glaring problem, aside from overtime, is the pension system. The firefighters are able to retire after 20 years with a ridiculous pension paid until death. That means many retire at age 40-42 with over a 150k pension per year for the next 30-40 years of longer. If they work an extra 5-7 years, that pension increases significantly, meaning they are retiring at 50 with a 230k plus pension.

        Nevada is certainly not the only state suffering from the pitfalls of gov't salaries and pensions. But hopefully it can reverse course somewhat before its economic situation ends up like that of its neighbor to the West.
        Prepare to put mustard on those words, for you will soon be consuming them, along with this slice of humble pie that comes direct from the oven of shame set at gas mark “egg on your face”! -- Moss

        There are three rules that I live by: never get less than twelve hours sleep; never play cards with a guy who has the same first name as a city; and never get involved with a woman with a tattoo of a dagger on her body. Now you stick to that, and everything else is cream cheese. --Coach Finstock

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        • #5
          This is a problem everywhere.

          Overtime is an issue, and I think base salary is an issue.

          The biggest problem I have is with the retirement system. That is where the public are getting bent over and railed.

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          • #6
            Are LV firefighters making significantly more than their counterparts in other major metro areas? How far out of whack are their salaries compared to the national "market"?
            Everything in life is an approximation.

            http://twitter.com/CougarStats

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Indy Coug View Post
              Are LV firefighters making significantly more than their counterparts in other major metro areas? How far out of whack are their salaries compared to the national "market"?
              I can't be positive, but I believe I read something yesterday that said they were the 2nd highest group in the country in terms of average salary.

              But, like I said, that doesn't tell the full story. Look at this chart of the highest paid public employees (not just county employees however) working in Southern Nevada. The highest paid public employee is Lon Kruger. His base pay is $212k, but with "other" payments he makes almost $1.2M. The next highest paid public employee in all of Souther Nevada is North Las Vegas Assistant Fire Chief, Michael Perry. His base salary, however, is only $73,000. Combined with "other" pay (I'm not exactly sure what that means, but it does NOT include overtime), his salary balooooooooons up to $661,000! At least in 2009 it did. The FD's volunteer coordinator (whatever that is) made more than $450,000 last year.

              To be fair, the City Attorney for Henderson made $435,000 last year, while the Senior Assistant City Attorney made $550,000! Henderson has a problem, it seems. Its also paying more than $1.3M in combined salary to 4 firefighters.
              Ain't it like most people, I'm no different. We love to talk on things we don't know about.

              "The only one of us who is so significant that Jeff owes us something simply because he decided to grace us with his presence is falafel." -- All-American

              GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

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              • #8
                I agree that what's going on isn't right; I was just curious how widespread of an issue this was with firefighting.
                Everything in life is an approximation.

                http://twitter.com/CougarStats

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                • #9
                  Well, why are salaried employees getting overtime?
                  "Yeah, but never trust a Ph.D who has an MBA as well. The PhD symbolizes intelligence and discipline. The MBA symbolizes lust for power." -- Katy Lied

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                  • #10
                    Overworked and underpaid, staring at the floor.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by wuapinmon View Post
                      Well, why are salaried employees getting overtime?
                      God Bless Unions
                      Everything in life is an approximation.

                      http://twitter.com/CougarStats

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                      • #12
                        LV firefighters are pretty legendary for their salaries around here. I have a friend who left a good nursing job (BSN and experience required) here for a firefighter job in Vegas (EMT-basic training only requirement).
                        At least the Big Ten went after a big-time addition in Nebraska; the Pac-10 wanted a game so badly, it added Utah
                        -Berry Trammel, 12/3/10

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Indy Coug View Post
                          God Bless Unions
                          We should all be grateful for the prosperity that unions have played a large part in bringing to our country.

                          Unions are in need of reform, but they are a good thing.
                          "Yeah, but never trust a Ph.D who has an MBA as well. The PhD symbolizes intelligence and discipline. The MBA symbolizes lust for power." -- Katy Lied

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by wuapinmon View Post
                            We should all be grateful for the prosperity that unions have played a large part in bringing to our country.

                            Unions are in need of reform, but they are a good thing.
                            In swoops Captain Obvious.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by wuapinmon View Post
                              Unions are in need of reform obsolete, but they are were once a good thing.
                              Fixed it for you
                              Everything in life is an approximation.

                              http://twitter.com/CougarStats

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