Why will Utah be better than ASU?

[Art Vandelay]

I think I'm probably in stage 3 of the grief cycle (anger and bargaining) so take this with a grain assault. I will also preface my remarks by saying if the shoe was on the other foot and BYU was heading to a better conference and leaving the Native Lamanite brethren from the Great Basin, I would be ecstatic. My question is why will Utah fair any better in the PAC 11+ than ASU? Obviously Utah will have a much better LDS recruiting base, though the Mesa-Tuscon area has a large number of Mormons. KW is a better coach than a Medicare-eligible Dennis Erickson, but the Sun Devils have had above average coaches and some great players in the past. Only Jake the Snake was able to take them to the promised land, but much like Moses he couldn't close the deal.

If it was BYU going and I took off my blue goggles I think they could compete for a conference championship in FB once every 4-5 years and in basketball every 3-4 years, yet I would be surprised if they were to win an outright championship in either more than once a decade.

[jay santos]

Here's a better question. What would Arizona look like today if they were still in the WAC/MWC? My guess is that they would look like New Mexico.

[beefytee]

I don't think they need to do better than ASU.

Ask ASU if they still want to be in the WAC.

They'll win a championship every once in a while.

Utah is starting off on better footing than ASU did. IMO

[BoylenOver]

In Arizona St's first 10 years as a member of the PAC-10, they averaged 7.2 wins a season, and that number includes the final five games of Frank Kush's career (which were forfeited; he was replaced mid-year) when they went 1-11 in 1979. They won 9 games in 1978 and 1981, and won 10 games in 1983 and 1986. They finished ranked 5 times, the highest at #4 (the same year they won the PAC-10 and beat Michigan in the Rose Bowl). They qualified for 3 bowl games, but had only 2 losing seasons.

If Utah had that resume between 2011 and 2020, I'd be pretty happy, I think.

[Uncle Ted]

In Arizona St's first 10 years as a member of the PAC-10, they averaged 7.2 wins a season, and that number includes the final five games of Frank Kush's career (which were forfeited; he was replaced mid-year) when they went 1-11 in 1979. They won 9 games in 1978 and 1981, and won 10 games in 1983 and 1986. They finished ranked 5 times, the highest at #4 (the same year they won the PAC-10 and beat Michigan in the Rose Bowl). They qualified for 3 bowl games, but had only 2 losing seasons.

If Utah had that resume between 2011 and 2020, I'd be pretty happy, I think.

Given they still have to play Utah State every year they will have at least one win per year in the bag.

[BoylenOver]

Given they still have to play Utah State every year they will have at least one win per year in the bag.

Not for the next two years, we don't.

(To be fair, I anticipate that rivalry being renewed in 2012)

[SeattleUte]

I think I'm probably in stage 3 of the grief cycle (anger and bargaining) so take this with a grain assault. I will also preface my remarks by saying if the shoe was on the other foot and BYU was heading to a better conference and leaving the Native Lamanite brethren from the Great Basin, I would be ecstatic. My question is why will Utah fair any better in the PAC 11+ than ASU? Obviously Utah will have a much better LDS recruiting base, though the Mesa-Tuscon area has a large number of Mormons. KW is a better coach than a Medicare-eligible Dennis Erickson, but the Sun Devils have had above average coaches and some great players in the past. Only Jake the Snake was able to take them to the promised land, but much like Moses he couldn't close the deal.

If it was BYU going and I took off my blue goggles I think they could compete for a conference championship in FB once every 4-5 years and in basketball every 3-4 years, yet I would be surprised if they were to win an outright championship in either more than once a decade.

Because it already is better? Duh.

[DU Ute]

Utah will never Go undefeated bust the BCS win a BCS game have success with Urban gone go undefeated again beat Alabama be invited to the PAC-10* have success in the PAC-10.
* Yes, I realize this isn't official.

[Uncle Ted]

Not for the next two years, we don't.

(To be fair, I anticipate that rivalry being renewed in 2012)

Andy Katz of ESPN talked like it was government mandated game...

http://www.cougaruteforum.com/showpo...postcount=2101

Is that not the case? I thought politics and football was bad enough in Texas.

[BoylenOver]

Andy Katz of ESPN talked like it was government mandated game...

http://www.cougaruteforum.com/showpo...postcount=2101

Is that not the case? I thought politics and football was bad enough in Texas.

the more I think about it, the more I anticipate the football rivalry with USU being reduced. There's no way we occupy half of our OOC schedule with in-state rivals, and BYU will be a far bigger priority.

[SCcoug]

I don't buy the argument that Utah will be terrible in the PAC10. If the Utes are invited to the PAC10 they'll have walked into the best situation possible. WSU, ASU and CU are a mess. UCLA and UW are still climbing out of program lows. USC is being hit with scholarship reductions and post season ban. Arizona isn't anything to fear. Stanford, Cal, Oregon and OSU are no tougher than BYU or TCU have been in the MWC. The Utes should win at home, the only question is can they be consistent on the road.

Utah should have a few buffer years to establish themselves in the PAC10 and up their recruiting to compete when the traditional PAC10 powers return.

[Jacob]

I thought that the Utes would be losers if they had to play in a division with OK and TX, etc. But they'll be fine in the PAC 10 as that is a lesser conference with some bad teams.

[Art Vandelay]

I don't buy the argument that Utah will be terrible in the PAC10. If the Utes are invited to the PAC10 they'll have walked into the best situation possible. WSU, ASU and CU are a mess. UCLA and UW are still climbing out of program lows. USC is being hit with scholarship reductions and post season ban. Arizona isn't anything to fear. Stanford, Cal, Oregon and OSU are no tougher than BYU or TCU have been in the MWC. The Utes should win at home, the only question is can they be consistent on the road.

Utah should have a few buffer years to establish themselves in the PAC10 and up their recruiting to compete when the traditional PAC10 powers return.

I have never considered ASU terrible (most years) that is why I specifically chose them. Perhaps they are the wrong choice with Tempe being too much like San Diego with too many distractions to sustain a top-tier FB program year in and year out.

Perhaps a better question is why will Utah be more like Oregon than ASU (which you somewhat answered)? Until proven otherwise I refuse to believe they will be better on regular basis than the Ducks, since USCheat is the only one who has been for the past decade.

[Blueintheface]

I think I'm probably in stage 3 of the grief cycle (anger and bargaining) so take this with a grain assault.

I dig it.

[pellegrino]

I don't buy the argument that Utah will be terrible in the PAC10. If the Utes are invited to the PAC10 they'll have walked into the best situation possible. WSU, ASU and CU are a mess. UCLA and UW are still climbing out of program lows. USC is being hit with scholarship reductions and post season ban. Arizona isn't anything to fear. Stanford, Cal, Oregon and OSU are no tougher than BYU or TCU have been in the MWC. The Utes should win at home, the only question is can they be consistent on the road.

Utah should have a few buffer years to establish themselves in the PAC10 and up their recruiting to compete when the traditional PAC10 powers return.

I agree with ya cuz. With the current makeup of the PAC 10 and with the right division alignments, there's no reason why Utah can't have the same success that they have had in the MWC under KW. They are a good program with solid coaching and now they have an opportunity to expand their recruiting base. I think they'll do just fine.