Suggestions for a leaky wall?

[Eddie]

I've got an older home - build in the 20's. Someone before me put a larger porch on it - built of cinder block and topped with cement. It has a steep pitched roof and aluminum shingles. As long as we've owned the home, it has never had a gutter on it. There are the holes where it used to be and a down spout - but the snow coming off the roof in the winter pulls the gutter off.

So without a gutter, water comes off the roof in the summer and snow in the winter and the result is that somehow it seeps between the cement porch and the brick wall and has been going into a wall in the basement. To the point that I've had to rip the whole wall out. The insulation was dripping wet.

I took a grinder and cleaned the gap between the cement and brick and caulked it with some crazy 30 year stuff a cement contrator recommended. It didn't do much. So I'm wondering if somehow the water is seeping through the mortar between the bricks.

So I've got someone coming to install a new gutter with some kind of "helmet" thing on it that will allow the snow to slide off without pulling it down. This should drastically reduce the amount of water sitting on the porch.

But is there anything I can do to seal the cement porch and brick and the line between them? I want to make sure that when I put a wall back up I won't be going back into it in a couple of years. I've told my wife I'm going to have someone come put a spray on bedliner over the whole porch and 8-10 inches up the wall - but she isn't a fan of that plan.

I'm open to any and all ideas that won't require a second mortgage...

[pellegrino]

A few suggestions.

Is the snow pulling down the gutter because you are getting ice dams up there? Ice dams form because of inadequate ventilation and/or insulation in your attic. We have this problem with our home that was built in the 40's. For most roofs (aluminum might be different) snow should stay on the roof and melt off evenly and gradually, as pretty as icicles are, you want to avoid them because that means you're getting ice dams. Ice dams are bad for the roof, gutters and they can cause a lot of damage that is very expensive to repair. Insulate your attic better and you'll avoid them.

Gutters should help by diverting the water from the roof away from the foundation. You could also put an awning, or some sort of cover (permanent or temporary) over the porch to protect that seam from getting wet.

If water still gets in then it might not be from the roof. It might be that you need a french drain installed like Phat did to his house. Since you've taken the wall down to the foundation you could waterproof the wall. I think closed cell spray foam insulation would be the best for that, but I'm sure there are other paint on products that you could use as well.

[Eddie]

A few suggestions.

Is the snow pulling down the gutter because you are getting ice dams up there? Ice dams form because of inadequate ventilation and/or insulation in your attic.

Gutters should help by diverting the water from the roof away from the foundation. You could also put an awning, or some sort of cover (permanent or temporary) over the porch to protect that seam from getting wet.

If water still gets in then it might not be from the roof. It might be that you need a french drain installed like Phat did to his house. Since you've taken the wall down to the foundation you could waterproof the wall. I think closed cell spray foam insulation would be the best for that, but I'm sure there are other paint on products that you could use as well.

With the aluminum roof and the steep pitch, nothing stays up there. We listen to snow slide down all night during the good snow storms. It get's wet at all and it's just too dang slick. The funniest sight ever is watching the california quail try to land on it and scratch as they slide down until they finally fly again. It can't be ice dams because the snow and ice just can't stay on the roof.

The porch is about 5 feet wide and runs probably 12-15 feet along one side of the front of the house next to the door. So the front of the porch is far enough away from the foundation that I can't imagine it coming in from there. Also - the ceiling for the basement is at least 3 feet above ground. And the water is coming in high enough that it is messing up the ceiling - which is about at the same level as the porch. And it isn't really messing up the upstairs wall - well, maybe just a little at its base. So I can't imagine it being anything but the standing water on the porch.

I'm intrigued by the idea of sealing the inside of the wall, other than it can't be good for the foundation to be wet even if it doesn't enter the inside wall - if that is what you were suggesting with the foam insulation. Or were you talking about digging outside the wall and then putting something on the outside of the foundation?

[Surfah]

What kind of caulk did you use? There is epoxy injection stuff designed specifically for foundation wall cracks that are allowing moisture.

You can try something like this as well:

http://www.sanitred.com/BasementWaterproofing.htm

But first, I'd try and divert as much water away from your home as mentioned above.

[pellegrino]

With the aluminum roof and the steep pitch, nothing stays up there. We listen to snow slide down all night during the good snow storms. It get's wet at all and it's just too dang slick. The funniest sight ever is watching the california quail try to land on it and scratch as they slide down until they finally fly again. It can't be ice dams because the snow and ice just can't stay on the roof.

The porch is about 5 feet wide and runs probably 12-15 feet along one side of the front of the house next to the door. So the front of the porch is far enough away from the foundation that I can't imagine it coming in from there. Also - the ceiling for the basement is at least 3 feet above ground. And the water is coming in high enough that it is messing up the ceiling - which is about at the same level as the porch. And it isn't really messing up the upstairs wall - well, maybe just a little at its base. So I can't imagine it being anything but the standing water on the porch.

I'm intrigued by the idea of sealing the inside of the wall, other than it can't be good for the foundation to be wet even if it doesn't enter the inside wall - if that is what you were suggesting with the foam insulation. Or were you talking about digging outside the wall and then putting something on the outside of the foundation?

Spray foam would be installed on the interior and would act as a barrier to prevent water from entering in. There are exterior waterproofing systems, but I don't know much about them other than they dig down to the base and put this rubber stuff on the foundation walls. It's usually coupled with a french drain. I don't know how that would work with your foundation, assuming it is either a cinder block or a rubble foundation. The problem I see with that type of a solution is that you'd have to tear out the porch. I don't think you want to do that. I would try and get a few opinions from foundation experts and see what they say.

[Surfah]

Spray foam would be installed on the interior and would act as a barrier to prevent water from entering in. There are exterior waterproofing systems, but I don't know much about them other than they dig down to the base and put this rubber stuff on the foundation walls. It's usually coupled with a french drain. I don't know how that would work with your foundation, assuming it is either a cinder block or a rubble foundation. The problem I see with that type of a solution is that you'd have to tear out the porch. I don't think you want to do that. I would try and get a few opinions from foundation experts and see what they say.

That's all it is. It's expensive to do once a home is up. Mostly because of the labor and risk to damaging the home on both excavation and backfilling. They have to dig down along the walls to the footer. Put in drain tile. Cover it with some stone and then tar paper. Then they spray what essentially is pitch all over the walls. Then they backfill everything and grade away from the home.

[Eddie]

I believe the caulk I used was something called sikaflex.

The more I think about it the more convinced I am that water is coming through the mortar between the bricks when there is standing water. I know I've seen some cement sealants - which may not be the best stuff out there but may be one more barrier I could put on the cement, mortar, and bricks.

I'm liking the idea of either foam insulation or that stuff Surfah linked on the inside as an additional barrier.

[FN Phat]

I believe the caulk I used was something called sikaflex.

The more I think about it the more convinced I am that water is coming through the mortar between the bricks when there is standing water. I know I've seen some cement sealants - which may not be the best stuff out there but may be one more barrier I could put on the cement, mortar, and bricks.

I'm liking the idea of either foam insulation or that stuff Surfah linked on the inside as an additional barrier.

Both are viable options that I would explore once you remedy the standing water issue at the exterior of the home.

[All-American]

Do what any good conservative would advocate: tear down this wall.

[Babs]

Do what any good conservative would advocate: tear down this wall.

[RobinFinderson]

That's all it is. It's expensive to do once a home is up. Mostly because of the labor and risk to damaging the home on both excavation and backfilling. They have to dig down along the walls to the footer. Put in drain tile. Cover it with some stone and then tar paper. Then they spray what essentially is pitch all over the walls. Then they backfill everything and grade away from the home.

This is basically the correct answer. It is expensive, or you can put in the sweat equity. We had to do this when I was a kid, and we basically excavated an 8' deep trench, big enough to fit a grown man, along the whole length of the leaky wall. It is a HUGE pain, but maybe you can make use of some Home Depot illegals to do the heavy digging.

[Surfah]

This is basically the correct answer. It is expensive, or you can put in the sweat equity. We had to do this when I was a kid, and we basically excavated an 8' deep trench, big enough to fit a grown man, along the whole length of the leaky wall. It is a HUGE pain, but maybe you can make use of some Home Depot illegals to do the heavy digging.

The only good thing is if the wall is leaking there, the ground is probably saturated and easy to dig out. It's just a lot of digging. Also call Ms. Utility or whoever your utility markers are before digging. You'd be surprised what you may find that close to a home underground.