CNN manufacturing stories once again?

[Indy Coug]

http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/asiapc...ex.html?hpt=C1

More than 300,000 people sleep, eat and work here. There are three hospitals, a fire station, supermarkets and restaurants all crammed on less than a square mile (2.3 square kilometers.)
But something here is not right -- an alarming number of workers have taken their lives or attempted suicide. So far this year, 10 people have committed suicide, while three others have tried, according to Foxconn, a Taiwanese firm and local authorities, and no one knows why.

While the number of suicides is below China's average rate of 14 per 100,000, according to the World Health Organization,...

[Uncle Ted]

Steve Jobs responds. There is nothing to see here so move along.

Mr. Jobs told delegates: "[Foxconn have] had some suicides and attempted suicides. They have 400,000 people there. The rate is under what the US rate is, but it's still troubling."

[Indy Coug]

It's a given that suicide is troubling. However, what I'm curious about is why a transparently clear attempt is being made here to link an admittedly lower-than-average suicide rate to the particulars of working in this compound?

Apparently, working in an overcrowded, underpaid environment where I am significantly isolated from the outside world is less likely to make me want to kill myself than working in a less crowded, better compensated environment.

[Moliere]

Is it really below the rate? It says "so far this year" which leads me to think you need to extrapolate to an entire year. Granted a sample size of a couple months is not enough to really make any extrapolation, still it seems that the rate is currently higher than average.

[Indy Coug]

Is it really below the rate? It says "so far this year" which leads me to think you need to extrapolate to an entire year. Granted a sample size of a couple months is not enough to really make any extrapolation, still it seems that the rate is currently higher than average.

1. The article admits it is below the rate.

2. From an actuarial standpoint, you require a significant amount of "exposure" to yield credible data for such a low frequency event and therefore, an actuary would likely tell you there is insufficient evidence to conclude much of anything.

[Surfah]

It's a given that suicide is troubling. However, what I'm curious about is why a transparently clear attempt is being made here to link an admittedly lower-than-average suicide rate to the particulars of working in this compound?

Apparently, working in an overcrowded, underpaid environment where I am significantly isolated from the outside world is less likely to make me want to kill myself than working in a less crowded, better compensated environment.

Coach posted this article last week.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/c...this-year.html

"You cannot compare the situation with the national average suicide rate," said Jin Shenghua, a professor of psychology at Beijing Normal University who was flying down to advise the company on the situation yesterday.

"When the rate of suicide jumps rapidly it is alarming. You can only compare this with the situation in other similar factories".

[Indy Coug]

Coach posted this article last week.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/c...this-year.html

The professor is a psychologist, not an actuary.

[Surfah]

The professor is a psychologist, not an actuary.

So the comparison is not legitimate?

[Indy Coug]

So the comparison is not legitimate?

IMO, this story is a byproduct of China becoming more self-aware in how it fits in the developed world. That includes how its workers are treated, compensated, etc. etc.

It goes without saying that their working conditions and compensation are abysmal by the standards of every other major economic power. This topic is being seized upon is nothing more than a reflection of that angst.

The general concerns about the Chinese worker are legitimate, but the suicide crisis itself is largely a manufactured one.

[Uncle Ted]

It's a given that suicide is troubling. However, what I'm curious about is why a transparently clear attempt is being made here to link an admittedly lower-than-average suicide rate to the particulars of working in this compound?

Apparently, working in an overcrowded, underpaid environment where I am significantly isolated from the outside world is less likely to make me want to kill myself than working in a less crowded, better compensated environment.

So they can't quit?

[Surfah]

IMO, this story is a byproduct of China becoming more self-aware in how it fits in the developed world. That includes how its workers are treated, compensated, etc. etc.

It goes without saying that their working conditions and compensation are abysmal by the standards of every other major economic power. This topic is being seized upon is nothing more than a reflection of that angst.

The general concerns about the Chinese worker are legitimate, but the suicide crisis itself is largely a manufactured one.

I agree with what you're saying here for the most part. But that doesn't answer the question though. Does the argument that the suicide rate is still less than the national average still hold if their rate is abnormal when compared to the other factories?

[Indy Coug]

I agree with what you're saying here for the most part. But that doesn't answer the question though. Does the argument that the suicide rate is still less than the national average still hold if their rate is abnormal when compared to the other factories?

2. From an actuarial standpoint, you require a significant amount of "exposure" to yield credible data for such a low frequency event and therefore, an actuary would likely tell you there is insufficient evidence to conclude much of anything.

My position is that there isn't enough credible data to conclude anything about a partial year's suicide rate and that a psychologist isn't qualified to opine differently.

[Surfah]

My position is that there isn't enough credible data to conclude anything about a partial year's suicide rate and that a psychologist isn't qualified to opine differently.

Fair.

Apparently a Foxconn worker died yesterday from exhaustion after a 34 hour shift. I still think it's newsworthy. Just like it was when Nike took a lot of heat for similar practices. My only gripe is that I don't think that Apple should be the only one to take it on the chin when Dell, Sony, and Nokia all use Foxconn too. I think this is more of a backlash to the culture and identity that Apple has created.

[Indy Coug]

Fair.

Apparently a Foxconn worker died yesterday from exhaustion after a 34 hour shift. I still think it's newsworthy. Just like it was when Nike took a lot of heat for similar practices. My only gripe is that I don't think that Apple should be the only one to take it on the chin when Dell, Sony, and Nokia all use Foxconn too. I think this is more of a backlash to the culture and identity that Apple has created.

The 34 hour shift story is definitely newsworthy, although the CUF doctors probably don't have as much sympathy as you or I might.

[Moliere]

1. The article admits it is below the rate.

2. From an actuarial standpoint, you require a significant amount of "exposure" to yield credible data for such a low frequency event and therefore, an actuary would likely tell you there is insufficient evidence to conclude much of anything.

1. Just keeping you honest. Obviously a dumb phrase to put into an article since none of the stated statistics are comparable.

2. Not just an actuary, but a rational human being that knows anything about statistics. It's still alarming that there are any suicides and we should always do what we can to stem any increases, but from a statistical standpoint it's not alarming.

I agree with what you're saying here for the most part. But that doesn't answer the question though. Does the argument that the suicide rate is still less than the national average still hold if their rate is abnormal when compared to the other factories?

Where does it say it's abnormal compared to other factories? I see a quote from a protester saying it's abnormal but there is no mention of that abnormality being compared to other factories. No where in those articles are we shown the rate compared to other factories, only the rate compared to China as a whole

My position is that there isn't enough credible data to conclude anything about a partial year's suicide rate and that a psychologist isn't qualified to opine differently.

Agreed.