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  • Israeli Navy attacks Gaza bound ships

    This can't be good for anyone involved. Just what the world needs-another flashpoint.

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/37423584...deastn_africa/


    Lately Israel seems to care less and less what the international community thinks of what it does. Of course, I am sure that we will get more information about what the ships had on board and who was on them in the coming days. Still Israel has taken on the role of aggressor in this instance and it seems likely that this will lead to further bloodshed.

  • #2
    Great , kill some humanitarian aid people for trying to give humanitarian aid. Good job Israel, showing your face again.


    Does this situation seem very ironic?



    No one can accuse history of not having a sense of irony. Sixty-three years ago in July 1947 a passenger ship destined for Palestine and named The Exodus was stopped and boarded by the British Navy. The ship was crowded with Holocaust survivors determined to make a new life for themselves in British controlled Palestine but did not have official immigration permits. Facing terrorism by Zionist organizations, waves of illegal immigration by Jews fleeing the displaced persons camps in post-war Europe, and resistance by Palestinian Arabs to the increasingly powerful and belligerent Zionist movement emboldened by its growing numbers, Britain was determined to stop the ship. Accordingly when the Royal Navy boarded the ship twenty miles out from Haifa a full scale battle ensued. Three of the immigrants were killed and dozens injured as British troops beat the passengers on to three separate prison ships. From there these Holocaust survivors were transported back to Germany and were once again placed in camps. The world was horrified; an American newspaper ran the headline, "Back to the Reich."
    Delegates from the UN Special Commission on Palestine who watched what occurred were similarly shocked; the Yugoslav delegate cited that what happened to The Exodus "is the best possible evidence we have for allowing Jews into Palestine."



    Synonymous with violence and poverty Gaza is home to 1.5 million dispossessed and imprisoned Palestinians. Under Israeli control since 1967 Gaza has seen it all and been through it all. Yet the events of the last two years are without precedent. Under blockade since 2007, bombarded in a three week long assault that is called a war, its people have been barely subsisting since. As Dov Weissglas, an advisor to then Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert, explained in 2006, Palestinians were to be "put on a diet." Today much that is essential for everyday life in Gaza is banned -- for either "security reasons" or because they are "luxury items": cement is banned, pencils banned, paper banned, toys banned, medicines and food restricted.

    Of course you can agree with all this and say it is "the terrorist" organization Hamas that is to blame. You can say that even though all this is illegal under international law it is necessary for Israel's security. Or you can ask how banning toys is fighting terror?

    Regardless of whom you choose to believe, this weekend you are likely to see another example of Israel's humanity. Reportedly a quarter of Israel's Navy has been mobilized to ensure the aid flotilla does not get through. The Israeli press reports that just like the British all those years ago, plans have been made to stop the aid flotilla twenty miles out to sea and transfer the passengers to holding camps or prisons inside Israel before deporting them. For Israel's foreign minister this is not an aid convoy, but "a blatant provocation" and "violent propaganda." Which is odd really since the convoy, if left unimpeded, will not go near Israel.

    However, even if Israel does stop the convoy it should be aware that its position on blockading a whole people is not sustainable. At the time of The Exodus affair future Israeli Prime Minister Golda Meir declared: "To Britain we must say: it is a great illusion to believe us weak. Let Great Britain with her mighty fleet and her many guns and planes know that this people is not weak, and that its strength will stand it in good stead." Replace Great Britain with Israel and the same applies today.


    http://electronicintifada.net/v2/art...=Google+Reader
    Last edited by Maximus; 05-30-2010, 11:49 PM.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Maximus View Post
      Great , kill some humanitarian aid people for trying to give humanitarian aid. Good job Israel, showing your face again.


      Does this situation seem very ironic?





      http://electronicintifada.net/v2/art...=Google+Reader
      1) There's a blockade in place since 2007.
      2) Flotilla told to stop via radio communication
      3) Flotilla doesn't stop. Why not when they know there is a blockade?
      4) Israeli's board the ship and are attacked by those on ship (caught on video) One organization on ship is organization known to be associated with terrorism.
      5) Israeli's fight back. Kill 10.

      Flotilla says "who me"?

      What face is Israel showing? Beats a government who has laws on the books and refuses to enforce them.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by New Mexican Disaster View Post
        This can't be good for anyone involved. Just what the world needs-another flashpoint.

        http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/37423584...deastn_africa/


        Lately Israel seems to care less and less what the international community thinks of what it does. Of course, I am sure that we will get more information about what the ships had on board and who was on them in the coming days. Still Israel has taken on the role of aggressor in this instance and it seems likely that this will lead to further bloodshed.
        In your opinion when there is a blockade in place, what should a government do? And you call Israel the aggressor? I assume you think that Arizona is also the agressor in trying to stem illegal immigration?

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Hallelujah View Post
          1) There's a blockade in place since 2007.
          2) Flotilla told to stop via radio communication
          3) Flotilla doesn't stop. Why not when they know there is a blockade?
          4) Israeli's board the ship and are attacked by those on ship (caught on video) One organization on ship is organization known to be associated with terrorism.
          5) Israeli's fight back. Kill 10.

          Flotilla says "who me"?

          What face is Israel showing? Beats a government who has laws on the books and refuses to enforce them.
          What organization on the boat is known to be associated with terrorism? The European politicians? The Holocaust survivors? Or the Nobel peace price winner?

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Maximus
            Great , kill some humanitarian aid people for trying to give humanitarian aid. Good job Israel, showing your face again.


            Does this situation seem very ironic?
            i don't know why it would be ironic, were the palestinians on board refugees from an event that killed 7 million of them and displaced basically everyone that wasn't killed? how is that comparable? because they both involve ships? herp derp i can da comparisonz!!!1

            there was a blockade, they were instructed to stop by the israeli navy. they didn't. when boarded, they attacked a bunch of mp5 wielding commandos. why is it the israeli navy's fault that so many palestinians are too dumb to realize fighting people with superior weapons (i.e. not sticks, stones and old soviet rockets) is a bad idea?
            Te Occidere Possunt Sed Te Edere Non Possunt Nefas Est.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by camleish View Post
              i don't know why it would be ironic, were the palestinians on board refugees from an event that killed 7 million of them and displaced basically everyone that wasn't killed? how is that comparable? because they both involve ships? herp derp i can da comparisonz!!!1

              there was a blockade, they were instructed to stop by the israeli navy. they didn't. when boarded, they attacked a bunch of mp5 wielding commandos. why is it the israeli navy's fault that so many palestinians are too dumb to realize fighting people with superior weapons (i.e. not sticks, stones and old soviet rockets) is a bad idea?
              um, it was in international waters, israel had no authority to board it. Not to mention they have no legal authority over gaza or its waters.

              Comment


              • #8
                More on the irony from an Israeli newspaper:

                They don't remember the story of the Exodus ship in 1947.

                The British Mandate authorities imposed a blockade on the shores ofthe land of Israel and Jewish leaders believed it was their right and their duty to break it. The Jewish immigrants on the Exodus decided to forcefully oppose every attempt to stop them. The Jewish leadership wanted to arouse the world's conscience and gain a victory in the
                battle for international sympathy...

                No matter how one looks at the conduct of the Israeli government and the IDF, it is hard to understand how stupid and tragic it was. Time and again, Israel tries to prove that what can't be solved by force can be solved by more force. Over and over, the policies of force fail. The problem is that with each failure, the part of the world in which we would like to belong is losing patience with us.
                http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomac...sEnabled=false

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Hallelujah View Post
                  In your opinion when there is a blockade in place, what should a government do? And you call Israel the aggressor? I assume you think that Arizona is also the agressor in trying to stem illegal immigration?
                  A government that cares what people think about it will go a long way before it boards boats in international waters. And that is precisely the point, the people currently running Israel do not much care what the world thinks of its actions. They will have to reap what they have sown. Of course we will see whether this will set anything in motion or whether this will result in complaints and or something more palpable.

                  Arizona's leadership is much the same in that their actions are deliberately calculated and are not considered much in the context of the surrounding political environment. They knew their actions would be criticized by many and hailed by others and now they have to deal with the ramifications of their actions.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Maximus View Post
                    um, it was in international waters, israel had no authority to board it. Not to mention they have no legal authority over gaza or its waters.
                    there is a military blockade on gaza, i.e. anybody that wants to enter without adverse action by the idf needs to have their approval. to refuse to stop when warned of what would happen seems like a pretty glaring oversight on the part of the "aid" ship. also, israel has allowed a dozen of these ships into gaza without a problem in the past.

                    what about the reports of wounded soldiers? the videos floating around clearly show individuals wielding pipes and acting aggressively. how did israeli commandos end up with gunshot wounds?

                    i can't believe these folks are surprised they were hassled trying to travel to a blockaded area. they were being belligerent and confrontational. these dumbasses knew they were playing with fire. next time, they probably won't be so confrontational against trained special forces. but i guess these are the same people that keep throwing rocks at israeli tanks!

                    what if there was this kind of outrage every time an israeli citizen was killed by a mortar or rocket from across the border? wouldn't that be something?
                    Te Occidere Possunt Sed Te Edere Non Possunt Nefas Est.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by camleish View Post
                      there is a military blockade on gaza, i.e. anybody that wants to enter without adverse action by the idf needs to have their approval. to refuse to stop when warned of what would happen seems like a pretty glaring oversight on the part of the "aid" ship. also, israel has allowed a dozen of these ships into gaza without a problem in the past.

                      what about the reports of wounded soldiers? the videos floating around clearly show individuals wielding pipes and acting aggressively. how did israeli commandos end up with gunshot wounds?

                      i can't believe these folks are surprised they were hassled trying to travel to a blockaded area. they were being belligerent and confrontational. these dumbasses knew they were playing with fire. next time, they probably won't be so confrontational against trained special forces. but i guess these are the same people that keep throwing rocks at israeli tanks!


                      what if there was this kind of outrage every time an israeli citizen was killed by a mortar or rocket from across the border? wouldn't that be something?
                      disregaring the fact that Israel killed more last night than Israelis have ver been killed by those rockets from gaZa,

                      how hard is it to understand? The blockade is illegal. Trying to take over the boat in international waters is illegal ( it is called piracy)!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Maximus View Post
                        Trying to take over the boat in international waters is illegal ( it is called piracy)!
                        And a boat that is being boarded by others in international waters is privileged to defend itself. And BTW this is playing into the hands of the opponents of Israel who will use this incident as further demonstration of Israel being a rogue state.

                        The real question in my mind is what Turkey is going to do next and what demands they will try to make of NATO, if any. That will be interesting.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Maximus View Post
                          disregaring the fact that Israel killed more last night than Israelis have ver been killed by those rockets from gaZa,

                          how hard is it to understand? The blockade is illegal. Trying to take over the boat in international waters is illegal ( it is called piracy)!
                          The blockade is illegal? Based on what? The main law on blockades says that a blockade is legal if it's enforced. (There may be something more current--that's what I found with quick research.) Granted that treaty came about before Israel existed, but it establishes the principle for legality. Also, let's not forget that Israel isn't acting unilaterally; Egypt is also participating in this blockade. Everyone likes to blame Israel, but Israel and Egypt are acting together to fight against a threat that they both see in Hamas.
                          Not that, sickos.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by thesaint258 View Post
                            The blockade is illegal? Based on what? The main law on blockades says that a blockade is legal if it's enforced. (There may be something more current--that's what I found with quick research.) Granted that treaty came about before Israel existed, but it establishes the principle for legality. Also, let's not forget that Israel isn't acting unilaterally; Egypt is also participating in this blockade. Everyone likes to blame Israel, but Israel and Egypt are acting together to fight against a threat that they both see in Hamas.
                            Gaza is not part of Israel. The occupation is illegal.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Maximus View Post
                              Gaza is not part of Israel. The occupation is illegal.
                              Blockade ≠ Occupation, and the status of occupation in the Gaza strip is disputed depending on your definition of occupied.
                              Not that, sickos.

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