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Recruiting post mortem: Utah vs. BYU

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  • Recruiting post mortem: Utah vs. BYU

    So everyone says Utah and BYU each had its best recruiting year ever. Of course time will tell as to which team got the best players; much of how they develop has to do with coaching. The best quote I read was in the Tribune from an expert who said that Utah recruits not guys (like say, Manti) who can step in and make a difference as freshmen, but guys who disappear for a couple of years and emerge maybe as good as four and five stars. So some of this is just stage of development. Like the kid who doesn't read till age nine winds up the rocket scientists whereas the earlier reader just a GS15. We are dealing with boys afterall. (What a resounding comment on the quality of coaching at Utah.)

    But I think Utah won its first MWC February championship this year for several reasons:

    First, Scout and ESPN not counting Jucos is unforgivable. Jucos have been big stars for Utah and they comprise some of the most intriguing and likely important pickups this year.

    Second, BYU's most impressive recruit turns out to be a damaged young man who may never enroll.

    Third, Utah recruited three of big five poly recruits in-state that BYU coveted, the others going to UCLA and USC, even beating out Florida for one of them.

    Fourth, BYU is likely benefittng from its prior two successful years, whereas the maximum effect from Utah's Sugar Bowl championship and 13-0 will be felt in the future with kids in early HS yaers or now enrolling in JC's that are still empressionable (so the experts say).

    Fifth, Utah's haul is more impressive because it is more reflective of hard work and recruiting skill; yes, BYU has a more solid and entrenched recruiting base; but its recruiting fortunes are therefore more surrendipitously tied to the fecundity of that base in any given year. In fact, Utah carved into BYU's base this year as never before.

    Sixth, although BYU's recruiting was up (due to its base experiencing a bumper year and partly due to two prior relatively successful years) this is the first year Utah can make a case for winning February. This should be a disturbing trend for BYU fans. Especially since the Sugar Bowl high is 1-3 years off still, and Whit appears poised to capitalize on the current momentum.
    When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him.

    --Jonathan Swift

  • #2
    I hope there's enough room for the Deseret Duel trophy next to that February Championship and Poppinga National Title!
    "I don't know the origin of said bitch booming."-Art Vandelay
    "Hot Lunch posted awhile back on this. He knows more than anyone except for maybe BO."-Seattle Ute

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    • #3
      Originally posted by SeattleUte View Post

      First, Scout and ESPN not counting Jucos is unforgivable.
      Scout does count JUCOS.

      http://recruiting.scout.com/a.z?s=73...id=727&yr=2009
      "Take it to the Bank"

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Hot Lunch View Post
        junkie says they basically don't. They just give them low stars because they don't know.
        When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him.

        --Jonathan Swift

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by SeattleUte View Post
          junkie says they basically don't. They just give them low stars because they don't know.
          Well they forgot to give that ranking to James Aiono. He is a 5 star.
          "Take it to the Bank"

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          • #6
            Originally posted by SeattleUte View Post
            junkie says they basically don't. They just give them low stars because they don't know.
            I said ESPN does not count Jucos.
            *Banned*

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            • #7
              Originally posted by cougjunkie View Post
              I said ESPN does not count Jucos.
              you said if they don't know on a JUCO they give one star. See, e.g., Cain.
              When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him.

              --Jonathan Swift

              Comment


              • #8
                So to summarize:
                Utah wins the recruiting battle because:
                1) The rankings don't consider Utah's JUCO's (except that they do)
                2) BYU's top recruit (except that he's not) won't enroll for another year
                3) Utah got more poly's
                4) BYU only did so well because of their past success
                5) Utah worked harder
                6) Utah's gonna do really well in the future...

                Good logic. I'm not sure that any one of those five points supports your premise.
                At least the Big Ten went after a big-time addition in Nebraska; the Pac-10 wanted a game so badly, it added Utah
                -Berry Trammel, 12/3/10

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by SeattleUte View Post
                  you said if they don't know on a JUCO they give one star. See, e.g., Cain.
                  They do that for all recruits that they have not evaluated not just JUCOs.
                  *Banned*

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by ERCougar View Post
                    So to summarize:
                    Utah wins the recruiting battle because:
                    1) The rankings don't consider Utah's JUCO's (except that they do)
                    2) BYU's top recruit (except that he's not) won't enroll for another year
                    3) Utah got more poly's
                    4) BYU only did so well because of their past success
                    5) Utah worked harder
                    6) Utah's gonna do really well in the future...

                    Good logic. I'm not sure that any one of those five points supports your premise.
                    In his defense, he can count to six.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by SeattleUte View Post
                      you said if they don't know on a JUCO they give one star. See, e.g., Cain.
                      Cain is a 2 * with no other offers. Both Rivals and Scout are reporting his only offer is from Utah. How do you justify the 4* that rivals gave him?
                      "Take it to the Bank"

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by SeattleUte View Post
                        BYU has a more solid and entrenched recruiting base; but its recruiting fortunes are therefore more surrendipitously tied to the fecundity of that base in any given year.
                        This is the reason that it is so hard to compare classes with BYU. It is unusual for them to get a highly rated recruit that isn't LDS and already strongly leaning to BYU, but it is also unusual for them not to get the guys who are.

                        Utah's recruiting fortunes are far more tied to the performance of the program that BYU's are for that very reason. But I do think there is reason to think that our success over recent years is getting us higher quality players. I think BYU is basically getting the same quality of player they always have (which is very good) and as you say it is more or less chance that dictates how many good LDS/BYU leaning players there are in a given year.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Hot Lunch View Post
                          Cain is a 2 * with no other offers. Both Rivals and Scout are reporting his only offer is from Utah. How do you justify the 4* that rivals gave him?
                          How many offers did Bills get?

                          I htink a JUCO qb is a special case.
                          When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him.

                          --Jonathan Swift

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Lets break this down SU:

                            Rivals average star rating:

                            Utah: 2.88
                            BYU: 2.81

                            Now in your own words you said that the best way to tell how good someone will be is by offers. So lets look at the top 5 recruits in each class based on star ranking.

                            Utah:
                            James Aiono: Utah
                            Terrence Cain: Utah
                            Latu Heimuli: Utah, AZ, ASU, FLorida, Cal, Colorado, Nebraska, Oregon State, UCLA
                            Vyncent Jones: Utah
                            Chris Washington: Utah, BYU

                            So other than Heimuli Utah really killed it.

                            BYU:
                            Richard Wilson: Miami, LSU, BYU, Utah, Stanford, Tennessee, UCLA
                            Kyle Van Noy: BYU, ASU, Boise State, Cal, Arizona, UCLA, Colorado
                            Adam Timo: (committed over 2 years ago) BYU, Stanford
                            Brett Thompson: BYU, Nebraska, Oregon State, Cal, Colorado
                            Craig Bills: BYU

                            Looks like BYU wins that round.

                            Scout star ratings:
                            Utah: 2.52
                            BYU: 2.77

                            Looks like BYU wins this one as well.

                            Head to head recruiting:

                            LT Filiga: Utah
                            Latu Heimuli: Utah
                            Richard Wilson: BYU
                            Tui Crichton: BYU

                            Looks pretty even.
                            *Banned*

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by SeattleUte View Post
                              How many offers did Bills get?

                              I htink a JUCO qb is a special case.
                              Bills committed over 2 years ago and all 3 of his brothers attended BYU, why would anybody waste their time in offering him?
                              *Banned*

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