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View Full Version : How many wins is Harvey Unga worth



Jarid in Cedar
05-19-2010, 03:38 PM
The question is not how many games will BYU win with/without Harvey, but what difference would he make on the 2010 season. Choose a (+) if you think he was worth X more wins or a (-) if you think the team is better without him(I doubt anyone will take this choice, but I don't want the poll police disassembling)

cougjunkie
05-19-2010, 03:49 PM
I would say at least 2. If not more, a hot Harvey Unga that carries the ball 30 times and gets you 150+ yards is huge for a freshman QB. If BYU could pound the rock and give Heaps a lot of 3rd and shorts they would be in good shape.

Jarid in Cedar
05-19-2010, 03:53 PM
I said one, mostly because I don't see a team below the upper tier of the conference that will sneak up and get them, and he may help get one win that they wouldn't have covered either way.

I think the biggest question is how does this affect the QB situation. I was in the camp that Unga returning=Heaps starting, without question. I would ask those in the know if this weeks news changes that perception

Coach McGuirk
05-19-2010, 03:55 PM
Could be more than three. I could see times this year where he could have carried a struggling offense. Will be interesting for sure.

jay santos
05-19-2010, 04:02 PM
Two. 8-4/9-3 with him. 6-6/7-5 without him.

cougjunkie
05-19-2010, 04:04 PM
I said one, mostly because I don't see a team below the upper tier of the conference that will sneak up and get them, and he may help get one win that they wouldn't have covered either way.

I think the biggest question is how does this affect the QB situation. I was in the camp that Unga returning=Heaps starting, without question. I would ask those in the know if this weeks news changes that perception

This is actually a very good point. With or without Harvey they beat New Mexico, UNLV, Wyoming, San Diego State and Colorado State. Air Force may sneak up on them without Harvey, but TCu and Utah are most likely losses either way.

jay santos
05-19-2010, 04:13 PM
This is actually a very good point. With or without Harvey they beat New Mexico, UNLV, Wyoming, San Diego State and Colorado State. Air Force may sneak up on them without Harvey, but TCu and Utah are most likely losses either way.

This is a common way to view things but it's not how it usually happens. Even in a "guaranteed" win there is chance we lose. So in 8 games we're expected to win, the probabilities might be 90%, 90%, 80%, 80%, 70%, 60% whatever and when you sum them up it equals one loss out of there somewhere.

woot
05-19-2010, 04:34 PM
It's a real shame that Harvey's gone, but I'm in the camp that says RB is the position more than any other where a talented freshman can be similarly good as a talented senior.

I still voted +1, but with our big stable of RBs I'm not too worried about it.

jay santos
05-19-2010, 04:39 PM
It's a real shame that Harvey's gone, but I'm in the camp that says RB is the position more than any other where a talented freshman can be similarly good as a talented senior.

I still voted +1, but with our big stable of RBs I'm not too worried about it.

If I knew we had someone as good as Harvey waiting in the wings, I'd agree, but I'm not convinced. He's in the top 3-4 RB's we've had over the past 20 years. I'm not counting on his replacement being as good.

Portland Ute
05-19-2010, 04:41 PM
It's a real shame that Harvey's gone, but I'm in the camp that says RB is the position more than any other where a talented freshman can be similarly good as a talented senior.

I still voted +1, but with our big stable of RBs I'm not too worried about it.

There are many people that wear both red and blue that would say it's one of the easiest positions to replace on the offense.

I know I believe that for Utah. I'm not sure about BYU. I don't know if it's more a position thing or a program thing. Maybe both. I'm going with it being a position thing.

In other words, I don't losing Unga makes much difference...1 game at most.

falafel
05-19-2010, 04:42 PM
I think without Harvey (and without a suitable replacement) we drop two games. However I think there's a good chance that one or tow of the freshman can/will step in and provide 90% of Harvey's production. In that sense, we probably only drop one game, but maybe none.

LA Ute
05-19-2010, 04:57 PM
The question is not how many games will BYU win with/without Harvey, but what difference would he make on the 2010 season. Choose a (+) if you think he was worth X more wins or a (-) if you think the team is better without him(I doubt anyone will take this choice, but I don't want the poll police disassembling)

Not trying to be obnoxious (some would say I don't need to try in order to accomplish that), but this "what if" game is pretty hard to play. For example, Utah fans could wonder how they would have done in 2009 with Matt Asiata playing all season. This discussion about Unga looks like BYU fans making excuses in advance.

All-American
05-19-2010, 05:07 PM
Depends on how good the backups are, I suppose. It's probably too much to ask that those guys are plug and play, but on the other hand, BYU's biggest win of the year last year came without Unga.

There's at least some chance that at the end of the season, we'll look back and be unable to identify a game that we lost which we would have won had Harvey Unga been available at RB. I wouldn't be willing to risk more than a few swedish fish in so wagering, though. We've been awfully lucky with some of the talent we've been able to find at running back over the last fifteen or so years, what with Ronney Jenkins, Luke Staley, Curtis Brown, and Harvey Unga. It may be asking too much to just inherit another gem.

Surfah
05-19-2010, 06:04 PM
Depends on how good the backups are, I suppose. It's probably too much to ask that those guys are plug and play, but on the other hand, BYU's biggest win of the year last year came without Unga.

There's at least some chance that at the end of the season, we'll look back and be unable to identify a game that we lost which we would have won had Harvey Unga been available at RB. I wouldn't be willing to risk more than a few swedish fish in so wagering, though. We've been awfully lucky with some of the talent we've been able to find at running back over the last fifteen or so years, what with Ronney Jenkins, Luke Staley, Curtis Brown, and Harvey Unga. It may be asking too much to just inherit another gem.

Quezada. I'm pushing my Swedish Fish all in.

byu71
05-19-2010, 07:28 PM
According to some, we should win more games, shouldn't we. You know, when the team is right physically and spiritually they should perform better.

I am going to start thinking positively along with those who love the honor code and think BYU would be a den of iniquity like all the other Universities without it.

HuskyFreeNorthwest
05-19-2010, 07:39 PM
I would say at least 2. If not more, a hot Harvey Unga that carries the ball 30 times and gets you 150+ yards is huge for a freshman QB. If BYU could pound the rock and give Heaps a lot of 3rd and shorts they would be in good shape.

I voted 3+ I think Harvey would have given Heaps a huge safety blanket to get comfortable. I never had us winning in Tallahassee, but I think Washington, TCU, Utah, AFA and Wyoming all just got harder.

old_gregg
05-19-2010, 08:02 PM
I'm not sure it guarantees losses, but I think it makes games in which we're on the bubble, i.e. Air force and washington (especially as we are opening against washington. I think we win that game later in the season with or without harvey) substantially more difficult to call wins in.

Hot Lunch
05-19-2010, 08:52 PM
I'm not sure it guarantees losses, but I think it makes games in which we're on the bubble, i.e. Air force and washington (especially as we are opening against washington. I think we win that game later in the season with or without harvey) substantially more difficult to call wins in.

I personally thought Washington was a loss even with Harvey.

HuskyFreeNorthwest
05-19-2010, 09:02 PM
I personally thought Washington was a loss even with Harvey.

Jake Locker did go 3-7 for 15 yards leading his side to a loss in Washington's spring game. I imagine Todd McShay has watched the video hundreds of times by now.

If Washington beats BYU they have a decent shot of going 6-6 and going bowling, that would be lame.

Hot Lunch
05-19-2010, 09:08 PM
Jake Locker did go 3-7 for 15 yards leading his side to a loss in Washington's spring game. I imagine Todd McShay has watched the video hundreds of times by now.

If Washington beats BYU they have a decent shot of going 6-6 and going bowling, that would be lame.

Washington will be a decent team next year. They went 5-7 under Sark his first year. I think they bring back 20 of 22 starters from a year ago and they have arguably the best player in college football. I could see UDUB going 8-4 next year.

I have been told by 2 former football players that Jake Locker is without a doubt the best college football player they played against during their career at BYU. Both players also played in the OU game that had 4 guys drafted in the top 5 of last years draft.

HuskyFreeNorthwest
05-19-2010, 09:18 PM
Washington will be a decent team next year. They went 5-7 under Sark his first year. I think they bring back 20 of 22 starters from a year ago and they have arguably the best player in college football. I could see UDUB going 8-4 next year.

I have been told by 2 former football players that Jake Locker is without a doubt the best college football player they played against during their career at BYU. Both players also played in the OU game that had 4 guys drafted in the top 5 of last years draft.

HL you are my brother in Dodger blue, but I can not accept any of what you posted above.

Sept. 4 at BYU
Sept. 11 Syracuse
Sept. 18 Nebraska
Oct. 2 at USC
Oct. 9 Arizona State
Oct. 16 Oregon State
Oct. 23 at Arizona
Oct. 30 Stanford
Nov. 6 at Oregon
Nov. 13 UCLA
Nov. 27 at California
Dec. 4 at Washington State

There are 5 games that they will be lucky to go 2-3 in. Oregon State is always tough in October, and Cal has a blowout to avenge in a late season game in Berkley. Not to mention a bye in mid-September with all those games stacked right on top of each other. Syracuse, ASU, UCLA and Washington State they win I agree, but getting 4 more I would give some long odds they don't make.

Having watched as much or more Locker than I would be willing to say anyone here I just don't get it. He makes bad throws, he throws into coverage, he doesn't have anyone really special at skill positions around him. What makes him so great?

Hot Lunch
05-19-2010, 09:36 PM
HL you are my brother in Dodger blue, but I can not accept any of what you posted above.

Sept. 4 at BYU
Sept. 11 Syracuse
Sept. 18 Nebraska
Oct. 2 at USC
Oct. 9 Arizona State
Oct. 16 Oregon State
Oct. 23 at Arizona
Oct. 30 Stanford
Nov. 6 at Oregon
Nov. 13 UCLA
Nov. 27 at California
Dec. 4 at Washington State

There are 5 games that they will be lucky to go 2-3 in. Oregon State is always tough in October, and Cal has a blowout to avenge in a late season game in Berkley. Not to mention a bye in mid-September with all those games stacked right on top of each other. Syracuse, ASU, UCLA and Washington State they win I agree, but getting 4 more I would give some long odds they don't make.

Having watched as much or more Locker than I would be willing to say anyone here I just don't get it. He makes bad throws, he throws into coverage, he doesn't have anyone really special at skill positions around him. What makes him so great?

I see where you are coming from and I can see why you wouldn't accept it. I think Syracuse, ASU, UCLA, WAZZU and BYU are 5 games UDUB wins without a doubt. They get OSU and Stanford in Seattle. I don't know if Stanford will be the team they were last year without the White Running Back. Cal does have a blow-out to avenge but avenging blowouts isn't the easiest thing in the world to do. I think that other than the SC, Oregon and Nebraska UDUB can win the other 9.

In college football, QB is king. They have a senior q.b. (I know you aren't big on him) while I don't think Locker is worthy of the #1 pick in the draft I do think he is one of the best 5 college football players out there. He is a senior and can make plays. UDUB also has a great Coach. Sark is good. Combine those two things with 20 starters returning and you have potential to have a really good season.

old_gregg
05-19-2010, 10:07 PM
Having watched as much or more Locker than I would be willing to say anyone here I just don't get it. He makes bad throws, he throws into coverage, he doesn't have anyone really special at skill positions around him. What makes him so great?

He's not, by chance, related to max, is he? :D

MarkGrace
05-19-2010, 11:30 PM
2-3.

All-American
05-19-2010, 11:37 PM
I see where you are coming from and I can see why you wouldn't accept it. I think Syracuse, ASU, UCLA, WAZZU and BYU are 5 games UDUB wins without a doubt. They get OSU and Stanford in Seattle. I don't know if Stanford will be the team they were last year without the White Running Back. Cal does have a blow-out to avenge but avenging blowouts isn't the easiest thing in the world to do. I think that other than the SC, Oregon and Nebraska UDUB can win the other 9.

In college football, QB is king. They have a senior q.b. (I know you aren't big on him) while I don't think Locker is worthy of the #1 pick in the draft I do think he is one of the best 5 college football players out there. He is a senior and can make plays. UDUB also has a great Coach. Sark is good. Combine those two things with 20 starters returning and you have potential to have a really good season.

He can definitely throw the ball high.

BoylenOver
05-20-2010, 08:39 AM
For example, Utah fans could wonder how they would have done in 2009 with Matt Asiata playing all season.

I disagree, Utah was destined for 10-3 all along, regardless of whether Asiata had remained healthy; if we had stuck with Cain all season; or if we had started Wynn in Week 1.

Of course, you're more than welcome to convince me Asiata would've made a difference against TCU and BYU.

Flattop
05-20-2010, 08:52 AM
Not trying to be obnoxious (some would say I don't need to try in order to accomplish that), but this "what if" game is pretty hard to play. For example, Utah fans could wonder how they would have done in 2009 with Matt Asiata playing all season. This discussion about Unga looks like BYU fans making excuses in advance.

Wide had a fantastic season, becoming the top rusher in the conference even though he only became the starter after Asiata was injured in game 4. Utah may have changed how they ran the ball, but they didn't lose any production from the running game.

LA Ute
05-20-2010, 10:34 AM
I disagree, Utah was destined for 10-3 all along, regardless of whether Asiata had remained healthy; if we had stuck with Cain all season; or if we had started Wynn in Week 1.

Of course, you're more than welcome to convince me Asiata would've made a difference against TCU and BYU.

:irony2: I jest, BO, I jest.