crime stats cited by wimmer

[frank ryan]

byu71, it looks like Wimmer was citing murder stats by race not legal status.
http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=10634835

Maybe if gets time Herrod can look the percentage of ponzi scheming by race group.
I'm sorry but citing murder stats by ethnic group is unsavory.

[byu71]

byu71, it looks like Wimmer was citing murder stats by race not legal status.
http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=10634835

Maybe if gets time Herrod can look the percentage of ponzi scheming by race group.
I'm sorry but citing murder stats by ethnic group is unsavory.

Certainly it looks like Wimmer and the dude he got his information from were playing loose with the facts. 7 out of 15 would indicate a possible problem, but I don't know what that problem is. That number though is big enough I don't see the need to jack it way up by playing with the numbers.

That's what makes it so hard for someone to come to a conclusion on the issue, both sides seem to sway things to their point of view.

[Viking]

Come on, Chris, you're better than this, man.

[frank ryan]

Certainly it looks like Wimmer and the dude he got his information from were playing loose with the facts. 7 out of 15 would indicate a possible problem, but I don't know what that problem is. That number though is big enough I don't see the need to jack it way up by playing with the numbers.

That's what makes it so hard for someone to come to a conclusion on the issue, both sides seem to sway things to their point of view.

Wimmer and Herrod were playing the race card. The murder rates are higher among blacks and polynesians too.
I don't know what his point is in compiling the stats that way.
Wimmer is the Chris Buttars of the state house.

[frank ryan]

Come on, Chris, you're better than this, man.

He tried to legalize having monkeys as pets because his kid's class wanted him to. I have no use for the man.

[byu71]

Wimmer and Herrod were playing the race card. The murder rates are higher among blacks and polynesians too.
I don't know what his point is in compiling the stats that way.
Wimmer is the Chris Buttars of the state house.

What if someone cites minorities are more likely to have higher unemployment rates to show they are more adversely affected by the recession. Is that playing the race card.

These guys are less than honest by fudging the statistics. I don't know if someone who notes a higher crime rate among a certain group automatically deems that person to be playing the race card.

[pellegrino]

This was posted on CB too. The ensuing conversation is telling.

http://www.cougarboard.com/noframes/...tml?id=5488601

[frank ryan]

What if someone cites minorities are more likely to have higher unemployment rates to show they are more adversely affected by the recession. Is that playing the race card.

These guys are less than honest by fudging the statistics. I don't know if someone who notes a higher crime rate among a certain group automatically deems that person to be playing the race card.

No.Using stats on ethnic background to solve a social problem is not the same as narrowly applying ONE and to paint the whole group as murderers.
Why defend it? Racism is such a toxic and misapplied term, but sometimes it is accurate.

[byu71]

No.Using stats on ethnic background to solve a social problem is not the same as narrowly applying ONE and to paint the whole group as murderers.
Why defend it? Racism is such a toxic and misapplied term, but sometimes it is accurate.

I am not defending it. I am saying that making sweeping statements and drawing inappropriate conclusions isn't only a problem for those on one side of the argument.

For me to show these guys are willing to stretch the truth and mislead is enough of an inditement without heaping on the label of racist. Perhaps they are. I just can't come to that conclusion as easily as you seem to be able to.

[New Mexican Disaster]

Come on, Chris, you're better than this, man.

How embarrassing. Clearly being dishonest with himself.

[frank ryan]

I am not defending it. I am saying that making sweeping statements and drawing inappropriate conclusions isn't only a problem for those on one side of the argument.

For me to show these guys are willing to stretch the truth and mislead is enough of an inditement without heaping on the label of racist. Perhaps they are. I just can't come to that conclusion as easily as you seem to be able to.

You are right, I bet they going to have one hell of a cinco de mayo party.
I don't there are two sided to the immigration issue, I think there are multiple sides. I'm for immigration, but I'm not for race-based immigration reform, no matter the argument.

[byu71]

You are right, I bet they going to have one hell of a cinco de mayo party.
I don't there are two sided to the immigration issue, I think there are multiple sides. I'm for immigration, but I'm not for race-based immigration reform, no matter the argument.

Come on. I enjoy talking politics with you because we disagree a lot, but I find you sincerely express your views and therefor I can listen without getting upset. I am sure you don't think all those who don't have one hell of a cinco de mayo party are racist.

I am for doing something about illegal immigration. AS far as I know the biggest problem is dealing with those that come from Mexico. I know they have brown skin, but I don't think my issue has to do with their skin color. If they were white, yellow, pink or whatever, I would have the same problem.

[frank ryan]

Come on. I enjoy talking politics with you because we disagree a lot, but I find you sincerely express your views and therefor I can listen without getting upset. I am sure you don't think all those who don't have one hell of a cinco de mayo party are racist.

I am for doing something about illegal immigration. AS far as I know the biggest problem is dealing with those than come from Mexico. I know they have brown skin, but I don't think my issue has to do with their skin color. If they were white, yellow, pink or whatever, I would have the same problem.

I don't think even all of the strident no-compromise immigration folks are racist. But when people (especially elected officials) just throw out stats like that it sure makes me ill.
They aren't talking about the burdon of illegal immigration, they are talking about an ethnic group. For all we know, all of the murderers were here legally.
This kind of scandalizing pollutes enacting real reform.

[byu71]

I don't think even all of the strident no-compromise immigration folks are racist. But when people (especially elected officials) just throw out stats like that it sure makes me ill.
They aren't talking about the burdon of illegal immigration, they are talking about an ethnic group. For all we know, all of the murderers were here legally.
This kind of scandalizing pollutes enacting real reform.

These two guys, Wimmer and Herrod have no credibility with me now. I guess I am saying I don't have to think they are racist to come to that conclusion. Whatever their motives, playing loose with the facts like that keeps me from considering their opinions seriously in the future.

By the way, I have the same problem with Beck, Hannity and Limbaugh.

[Uncle Ted]

byu71, it looks like Wimmer was citing murder stats by race not legal status.
http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=10634835

Maybe if gets time Herrod can look the percentage of ponzi scheming by race group.
I'm sorry but citing murder stats by ethnic group is unsavory.

So did Wimmer claim that these nine arrested Hispanics were all undocumented immigrates (in the one, small sample he looked at)? Or, because they are Hispanic, is he assuming they are all undocumented immigrates?

Besides the bad assumption he could throw out the 'unknowns' I don't think he can draw any valid conclusions from such a small sample size. In addition, I think if he looked at the stats over a good period of time I think he would find the violate crime rate is actually lower than it was 20 or so years ago. The estimates for undocumented immigrates living among Utahns are most likely higher over the same period of time.

Disclosure: On the 2010 census I answered the 'race question' as 'American/Human'.