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Indy Coug
04-21-2010, 12:25 PM
Take with grain of salt, if necessary

http://www.cougarboard.com/noframes/message.html?id=5456157

Surfah
04-21-2010, 12:29 PM
Take with grain of salt, if necessary

http://www.cougarboard.com/noframes/message.html?id=5456157

Who is that guy? I took it with coarse kosher salt.

Indy Coug
04-21-2010, 12:32 PM
Who is that guy? I took it with coarse kosher salt.

I have no idea and I'm not endorsing his post. I'm merely the messenger.

Babs
04-21-2010, 12:38 PM
Who is that guy? I took it with coarse kosher salt.

Twenty pound bag of rock salt might also work.

creekster
04-21-2010, 12:40 PM
I, for one, believe him completely and without reservation.

Mormon Red Death
04-21-2010, 12:41 PM
Take with grain of salt, if necessary

http://www.cougarboard.com/noframes/message.html?id=5456157

How does byu being in the big 12 open up california for recruiting?

Surfah
04-21-2010, 12:41 PM
Twenty pound bag of rock salt might also work.

I'm working on dreams here, not ice cream.

SCcoug
04-21-2010, 12:42 PM
How does byu being in the big 12 open up california for recruiting?

BYU is at the crossroads of the West.

Surfah
04-21-2010, 12:42 PM
How does byu being in the big 12 open up california for recruiting?

Didn't you read? That's a whole nother story.

creekster
04-21-2010, 12:43 PM
BYU is at the crossroads of the West.

All roads lead to . . .Provo?

CJF
04-21-2010, 12:43 PM
Well that explains the Blue River Shootout and Texas signing on for next year. The Big XII LOVES BYU.

p.s. You're welcome Ute fans!

Moliere
04-21-2010, 12:44 PM
BYU to the Big XII - If it ever happens I am a happy, happy man. The North division would allow for me to see more games in person as I can make some of those drives. Also, then BYU would play a couple South teams and I'd love to see a game in Austin or College Station or even Norman. Please, no one wake me up right now because I'm really enjoying this......

UtahDan
04-21-2010, 12:44 PM
Well that explains the Blue River Shootout and Texas signing on for next year. The Big XII LOVES BYU.

p.s. You're welcome Ute fans!

Yeah, I guess we know who to thank now so, uh, thanks guys.

Surfah
04-21-2010, 12:45 PM
Now we get to participate in conference smack with the Utes! And they'll never win. :D

Indy Coug
04-21-2010, 12:45 PM
How does byu being in the big 12 open up california for recruiting?

Good question. CU has 26 players on its roster from California and 51 from Colorado.

Moliere
04-21-2010, 12:46 PM
How does byu being in the big 12 open up california for recruiting?

SEems pretty obvious. A Big XII school will go after a California kid and give them the line "You saw what the Mormons did on prop 8. Here's your chance to beat up their school for 4 years."

byu71
04-21-2010, 12:46 PM
I love Oklahoma and their attitude. Unlike those liberal schools on the west coast, they aren't afraid of bringing someone in who can kick their arses.

Mormon Red Death
04-21-2010, 12:47 PM
Good question. CU has 26 players on its roster from California and 51 from Colorado.


Big XII North schools generally support the idea (mainly because they feel it would help open California up to recruiting ... but that's a whole 'nother story).

Do the big12 north schools not know that byu is in provo and not in California?

Jarid in Cedar
04-21-2010, 12:47 PM
I love Oklahoma and their attitude. Unlike those liberal schools on the west coast, they aren't afraid of bringing someone in who can kick their arses.

You are soooo above this. Unleash your inner Sailor!:mad:

Babs
04-21-2010, 12:51 PM
Do the big12 north schools not know that byu is in provo and not in California?

I think you guys confused them with all that "the Harvard of the West" talk. They think they're picking up Stanford.

byu71
04-21-2010, 12:51 PM
You are soooo above this. Unleash your inner Sailor!:mad:

Sorry. I see how that could be taken as a mocking of the Utes. I meant to mock the PAC10, especially the ones that would spur us. I meant no ill will toward the Utes nor their good fans.

Jarid in Cedar
04-21-2010, 12:55 PM
Sorry. I see how that could be taken as a mocking of the Utes. I meant to mock the PAC10, especially the ones that would spur us. I meant no ill will toward the Utes nor their good fans.

I was commenting on your use of the word arse:mad:

falafel
04-21-2010, 12:56 PM
Do the big12 north schools not know that byu is in provo and not in California?

They're slowly inching closer to the coast.

creekster
04-21-2010, 12:58 PM
They're slowly inching closer to the coast.

with the three men I admire most.

Babs
04-21-2010, 01:01 PM
with the three men I admire most.

so if BYU is left out of the Pac10 is Satan laughing with delight?

beefytee
04-21-2010, 01:03 PM
Am I the only BYU fan who doesn't want to join the Big 12?

I'd be all for joining the Pac 10 but the Big 12 just doesn't excite me. Oklahoma and Texas are desirable, but they wouldn't be in the same division. We wouldn't see them play every year. The north south split isn't good.

Sorry Babs. Just being honest.

Coach McGuirk
04-21-2010, 01:05 PM
This seems to be about as reliable as other expansion rumors.

Done deal!

Babs
04-21-2010, 01:06 PM
Am I the only BYU fan who doesn't want to join the Big 12?

I'd be all for joining the Pac 10 but the Big 12 just doesn't excite me. Oklahoma and Texas are desirable, but they wouldn't be in the same division. We wouldn't see them play every year. The north south split isn't good.

Sorry Babs. Just being honest.

You are smart. There's a reason the Big 12 is wanting somebody...anybody...to join the North. Granted, Nebraska's resurging but they don't really have anybody else up there to compete with.

creekster
04-21-2010, 01:07 PM
so if BYU is left out of the Pac10 is Satan laughing with delight?

not likely, 'cause FIre is the devil's only firend.

creekster
04-21-2010, 01:07 PM
Granted, Nebraska's resurging but they don't really have anybody else up there to compete with.

Egg-sale-ent

byu71
04-21-2010, 01:09 PM
I was commenting on your use of the word arse:mad:

Actually I first heard the work as a youngster. I never heard my mom, dad or either grandparents swear, I did see my grandpa give a guy the finer once. However, I heard the word arse many a time. Also, jackass, but I never considered that a swear word.

I probably should mention this. On CB once someone told me my Dad did a poor job of raising me if he used the word jackass. I can't remember if it was Indy, but I don't think so.

LiveCoug
04-21-2010, 01:10 PM
Am I the only BYU fan who doesn't want to join the Big 12?

I'd be all for joining the Pac 10 but the Big 12 just doesn't excite me. Oklahoma and Texas are desirable, but they wouldn't be in the same division. We wouldn't see them play every year. The north south split isn't good.

Sorry Babs. Just being honest.

If you had a choice between BYU staying in the MWC (and Utah bolting to the PAC) or BYU going to the Big 12, which would you choose?

beefytee
04-21-2010, 01:26 PM
If you had a choice between BYU staying in the MWC (and Utah bolting to the PAC) or BYU going to the Big 12, which would you choose?

Probably the Big 12. But I would probably take the current league (with Utah and possibly with Boise St.) over the Big 12. No question, I take the MWC if it ever got an auto-bid.

I now like the .mtn situation where all the BYU games are on TV nationally and supposedly all in HD in the fall. The Big 12 TV deal is mediocre but I imagine the games could be shown locally if they weren't on FSN/ESPN/ABC. I don't know the details.

The travel for BYU in the Big 12 north sucks as well. Iowa, Kansas? No thanks. I'll take New Mexico and Wyoming over that. Not that they are any better destinations, but they are closer.

The MWC in general has only been gaining mojo. Why break up a good thing?

TripletDaddy
04-21-2010, 01:35 PM
49.9% here.

HELP, I'M BEING SUCKED IN!!!!

Actually, I will believe it when I see it picked up by one of the big time rags, like SeattlePi or this guy:

http://themefiles.quickblogcast.com/1/9/9/3/3/219608-233991/images/Tarwater.jpg

falafel
04-21-2010, 01:38 PM
49.9% here.

HELP, I'M BEING SUCKED IN!!!!

Actually, I will believe it when I see it picked up by one of the big time rags, like SeattlePi or this guy:

http://themefiles.quickblogcast.com/1/9/9/3/3/219608-233991/images/Tarwater.jpg

That pic is great. Its like he was in the middle of a converstaion next to a white wall and they said "Hey Tarwater, this is for the website!" Click. "Perfect, no need for a re-take."

TripletDaddy
04-21-2010, 01:41 PM
That pic is great. Its like he was in the middle of a converstaion next to a white wall and they said "Hey Tarwater, this is for the website!" Click. "Perfect, no need for a re-take."

It is a very similar facial expression and facial hair construct as another socially adept sports writer:

http://wicknews.files.wordpress.com/2009/09/20081024__spt_monson_10241_200.jpg

DrumNFeather
04-21-2010, 01:43 PM
I find it very noble of BYU to call and offer itself up in the event that CU leaves. I mean, the Big 12 would be in a serious pinch if this had happened and there wasn't anyone there offering to take the open slot.

falafel
04-21-2010, 01:43 PM
It is a very similar facial expression and facial hair construct as another socially adept sports writer:

http://wicknews.files.wordpress.com/2009/09/20081024__spt_monson_10241_200.jpg

I agree. Clearly Monson was in the middle of a conversation with Bolerjack just outside the frame. The only difference between him and Tarwater is that they gave Monson a 3 second heads up before they took the shot that allowed him to pose.

LiveCoug
04-21-2010, 01:44 PM
49.9% here.

HELP, I'M BEING SUCKED IN!!!!

Actually, I will believe it when I see it picked up by one of the big time rags, like SeattlePi or this guy:

http://themefiles.quickblogcast.com/1/9/9/3/3/219608-233991/images/Tarwater.jpg

What about Kelly Martinez? Will he do?

TripletDaddy
04-21-2010, 01:46 PM
I find it very noble of BYU to call and offer itself up in the event that CU leaves. I mean, the Big 12 would be in a serious pinch if this had happened and there wasn't anyone there offering to take the open slot.

BYU doesn't "offer itself up."

It asks introspectively, "Is it I?"

woot
04-21-2010, 01:52 PM
While I'm not convinced the dude on CB has the sources he claims, I do think BYU would be a good fit in that conference and that there's no reason why BYU wouldn't be coveted by them, so it doesn't set off as many BS alarms as a lot of the talk has lately.

I also think it's pretty close to a perfect scenario for BYU. Adding BSU to the MWC and getting an auto-bid might be my favorite choice due to the easier road to a BCS game, but I would sure have more fun watching us play against Big 12 schools every year than the MWC dregs. It would also be really fun to add an inter-conference aspect to the BYU-Utah rivalry. It would make things even more bitter, even if the stakes were a bit lower.

kccougar
04-21-2010, 01:52 PM
Am I the only BYU fan who doesn't want to join the Big 12?

I'd be all for joining the Pac 10 but the Big 12 just doesn't excite me. Oklahoma and Texas are desirable, but they wouldn't be in the same division. We wouldn't see them play every year. The north south split isn't good.

Sorry Babs. Just being honest.

Yeah, how bad would that suck to have a decent shot of playing in the Big-12 Championship game each year.

Art Vandelay
04-21-2010, 01:53 PM
Anyone else use to like salt licks at as kid? You know the huge blocks of salt you put out for cattle. I wish I was making this up. :sick:

Babs
04-21-2010, 02:00 PM
49.9% here.

HELP, I'M BEING SUCKED IN!!!!

Actually, I will believe it when I see it picked up by one of the big time rags

Not me. I won't believe it til I see it on blearcherreport.

TripletDaddy
04-21-2010, 02:06 PM
Not me. I won't believe it til I see it on blearcherreport.

I bet the OU and Texas boards are lighting up like a Christmas tree right now. Those schools are salivating at the chance to try to redeem themselves against their longtime rival, BYU.

SeattleUte
04-21-2010, 02:09 PM
I'm not just trying to make you guys miserable here. You might find the same kind of resistance to Big XII admission as Pac 10 admission. True, Austin is a long ways from Berkeley. But academic communities tend to be similar in outlook from university to university, and the academic side will be making the decision. BYU's close tie to the mother church will be discussed in all the well-known euphamistic ways, and be a soure of controversy, I guarantee it. They have some pretty damn good, self respecting universities in the Big XII. Also, the Big XII has a lot more options than the Pac 10. For example, rumor has it that Arkansas might be ready to link up with its Texas cousins again.

I think the most likely scenario is BYU stays in an overhauled MWC.

My 2 cents, but I'm sure Babs will confirm.

Babs
04-21-2010, 02:24 PM
I bet the OU and Texas boards are lighting up like a Christmas tree right now.

Actually the server crashed from all the anticipation.

Babs
04-21-2010, 02:27 PM
I'm not just trying to make you guys miserable here. You might find the same kind of resistance to Big XII admission as Pac 10 admission. True, Austin is a long ways from Berkeley. But academic communities tend to be similar in outlook from university to university, and the academic side will be making the decision. BYU's close tie to the mother church will be discussed in all the well-known euphamistic ways, and be a soure of controversy, I guarantee it. They have some pretty damn good, self respecting universities in the Big XII. Also, the Big XII has a lot more options than the Pac 10. For example, rumor has it that Arkansas might be ready to link up with its Texas cousins again.

I think the most likely scenario is BYU stays in an overhauled MWC.

My 2 cents, but I'm sure Babs will confirm.

Perhaps more relevant: unlike the Pac10, the Big12 has zero private schools. Well, there's Baylor I guess, but we try to forget about them, and I think everybody in the conference agrees that inviting them was a mistake.

Maximus
04-21-2010, 02:31 PM
Am I the only BYU fan who doesn't want to join the Big 12?

I'd be all for joining the Pac 10 but the Big 12 just doesn't excite me. Oklahoma and Texas are desirable, but they wouldn't be in the same division. We wouldn't see them play every year. The north south split isn't good.

Sorry Babs. Just being honest.

I would much rather play new mexico and wyoming than kansas, Kansas state, and Nebraska.

byu71
04-21-2010, 02:33 PM
I'm not just trying to make you guys miserable here. You might find the same kind of resistance to Big XII admission as Pac 10 admission. True, Austin is a long ways from Berkeley. But academic communities tend to be similar in outlook from university to university, and the academic side will be making the decision. BYU's close tie to the mother church will be discussed in all the well-known euphamistic ways, and be a soure of controversy, I guarantee it. They have some pretty damn good, self respecting universities in the Big XII. Also, the Big XII has a lot more options than the Pac 10. For example, rumor has it that Arkansas might be ready to link up with its Texas cousins again.

I think the most likely scenario is BYU stays in an overhauled MWC.

My 2 cents, but I'm sure Babs will confirm.

The difference is I don't think the Big 12 is full of religious biggots when it comes to academic freedom.

byu71
04-21-2010, 02:36 PM
I would much rather play new mexico and wyoming than kansas, Kansas state, and Nebraska.

Really, you might be right. That '96 game BYU played with Kansas State was good but the Wyoming BYU game in , well the one in..., ok the one in....., how about that game with UNM in...I meant in.........Ok, the one in..........

LiveCoug
04-21-2010, 02:37 PM
Really, you might be right. That '96 game BYU played with Kansas State was good but the Wyoming BYU game in , well the one in..., ok the one in....., how about that game with UNM in...I meant in.........Ok, the one in..........

Your point has been made, but The Wyoming game the same year as the Kansas State game was pretty dang good.

byu71
04-21-2010, 02:39 PM
Your point has been made, but The Wyoming game the same year as the Kansas State game was pretty dang good.

Good point. What UNM game was as good as the Oklahoma game last year.:)

Donuthole
04-21-2010, 02:59 PM
Good point. What UNM game was as good as the Oklahoma game last year.:)
2005. Not even kidding.

Uncle Ted
04-21-2010, 03:03 PM
Perhaps more relevant: unlike the Pac10, the Big12 has zero private schools. Well, there's Baylor I guess, but we try to forget about them, and I think everybody in the conference agrees that inviting them was a mistake.

Actually Baylor is a good reason why BYU wouldn't be a good fit in the Big12. Everyone hates the Mormons but it seems like the Baptists hate them even more. Baylor might might have a little to say about the matter even though no one else in the Big12 may be listening. Of course, it would be nice to see BYU open up a little can of whup butt in Waco since it would be a short drive for me.

Color Me Badd Fan
04-21-2010, 03:04 PM
BYU would be the obvious replacement for CU if CU left for the Pac 10. Who else would they pick up? A Big 10 team will never leave that conference and no MWC team that fits geographically in the Big 12 North offers anything close to what BYU brings to the table.

Add to that the fact that BYU beat Oklahoma last year. From a competition standpoint, BYU would be seen as an upgrade over CU. Nothing that this guy says is really that outlandish.

The most difficult aspect to believe in all of this is whether CU would really leave the Big 12 in the first place. CU turned down the Pac 10 back in the early to mid 90s because it was already part of the formation of the Big 12 and weren't ready to totally screw up that deal which held a lot of promise. CU's football program was also in really good shape.

Now the athletic program is mostly a mess and in the red and the TV deal for the Big 12 sucks. The Pac 10 is up to renegotiate their TV deal and the Pac 10 will likely be able to offer more money than what CU currently gets from the Big 12's supposedly Texas-centric TV deal.

The thing that worries me is the Big 10 could be looking at forming a 14-16 team conference by poaching a bunch of Big East schools (or even a Big 12 school too). What if the SEC decided to follow suit and instead of going after, say, West Virginia, Louisville and South Florida went after Texas, aTm and Oklahoma? Would Texas make that move if, say, Missouri and (gasp) Nebraska bolted for the Big 10? These are some far fetched events, but the Big 12 is in a bad position if the bigger and more affluent conferences bordering it decide to expand beyond 12 and happen to pick off a team or two, which could have a domino effect.

BigFatMeanie
04-21-2010, 03:28 PM
For example, rumor has it that Arkansas might be ready to link up with its Texas cousins again.

I think the most likely scenario is BYU stays in an overhauled MWC.


Why Arkansas would want to leave the SEC, with its accompanying share of the richest pot in college football, is beyond me. I too read that rumor on some talking head's blog but I think it's completely ridiculous.

Unfortunately, I do agree with you that the most likely scenario for BYU is in an overhauled MWC.

BigFatMeanie
04-21-2010, 03:29 PM
I would much rather play new mexico and wyoming than kansas, Kansas state, and Nebraska.

??? Dude, you're nuts.

beefytee
04-21-2010, 03:31 PM
Why Arkansas would want to leave the SEC, with its accompanying share of the richest pot in college football, is beyond me. I too read that rumor on some talking head's blog but I think it's completely ridiculous.

Unfortunately, I do agree with you that the most likely scenario for BYU is in an overhauled MWC.

What about Texas going to the SEC?

BigFatMeanie
04-21-2010, 03:33 PM
What about Texas going to the SEC?

I think that has a higher probability than Arkansas leaving the SEC.

Color Me Badd Fan
04-21-2010, 03:37 PM
What about Texas going to the SEC?

That's more likely than Arkansas leaving the SEC. You don't usually leave to an inferior conference for less money.

My dream scenario is for Missouri to leave the Big 12, BYU takes Missouri's spot and the Pac 10 to decide that adding Utah and a decrepit CU program would possibly mean less money for the current 10 members. I think that would be hilarious. The funny thing is, it's a possibility and more likely than BYU being left out of a BCS conference while Utah finds itself in the Pac 10. The Big 12 doesn't have the Pac 10 hangups and they'll go for the team with twice as many fans and who can bring more money to the table.

SeattleUte
04-21-2010, 03:43 PM
That's more likely than Arkansas leaving the SEC. You don't usually leave to an inferior conference for less money.

My dream scenario is for Missouri to leave the Big 12, BYU takes Missouri's spot and the Pac 10 to decide that adding Utah and a decrepit CU program would possibly mean less money for the current 10 members. I think that would be hilarious. The funny thing is, it's a possibility and more likely than BYU being left out of a BCS conference while Utah finds itself in the Pac 10. The Big 12 doesn't have the Pac 10 hangups and they'll go for the team with twice as many fans and who can bring more money to the table.

The Big 12 would rather have Utah than BYU.

kccougar
04-21-2010, 03:55 PM
The Big 12 would rather have Utah than BYU.

Why?

SeattleUte
04-21-2010, 04:05 PM
Why?

The best evidence I have is that seemingly the Pac 10 wants Utah but not BYU.

But reason tells me the Big 12 would prefer Utah as well. I think everyone in the sports industry discounts too much the importance of culture; not just sports culture. Cowherd seemed outright ignorant of these subjective factors yesterday, but overall he came off sounding like an ignoramus. Utah is a better fit culturally with the Big 12 than BYU just as it's a better fit in the Pac 10. Basically, Utah has a much broader bandwidth in term of culture and fit. BTW, if you're thinking Big 12 is more red state than the Pac 10, Utah fits that aspect of the culture as well. Utah is very flexible; a chameleon. Babs noted private schools and all their high maintenance aspects being a buzz kill for the Big 12.

This is the primary factor that keeps Notre Dame out of the Big 10. BYU is a rogue; it needs to be a big fish or an independent.

In the overall scheme of things the dollar increments are miniscule. The main reason the real titans in these great institutions tolerate spectator sports is that it attracts student applications, and institutional pride of the kind that attracts donations to the academic programs.

Clark Addison
04-21-2010, 04:13 PM
This is the primary factor that keeps Notre Dame out of the Big 10.

The primary factor that keeps Notre Dame out of the Big 10 is Notre Dame.

Goatnapper'96
04-21-2010, 04:16 PM
Do the big12 north schools not know that byu is in provo and not in California?

The logic is that Colorado recruits California more successfully than the other Big-12 schools. If UC is no longer in the Big 12 the other Big 12 teams think they would have more success in California, at least from a comparitive perspectve versus other conference foes. I would think they think that the California kids would be able to see UC gets it ass kicked enough that if they were interested in going to the midwest other schools would be more attractive. I personally don't get the logic as I would think UC being in the Pac-10 would make it even more attractive to California kids, but there is some weird ass zero sum mentality wrt recruiting, within a conference, that I don't understand. The Big 12 heads want to be the best recruiters in California just like even Afghanastan needs a top golfer!

In other words it has nothing to do with BYU and everythign to do with getting UC out of the Big 12. Midwestern farmers like mormons more than wannabe hippies that drink from their fingers!

SeattleUte
04-21-2010, 04:17 PM
The primary factor that keeps Notre Dame out of the Big 10 is Notre Dame.

Not sure we disagree here. I think Notre Dame is wise enough to want to remain unconstrained. It's cultural and not about money. At bottom, BYU has made the same decision, hasn't it.

Art Vandelay
04-21-2010, 04:17 PM
This is the primary factor that keeps Notre Dame out of the Big 10.

What time do you start drinking on Wednesdays? I'm not even sure alcohol could explain that statement; you aren't taking shrooms and reading "Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas" are you? Wow...just wow.

SeattleUte
04-21-2010, 04:21 PM
What time do you start drinking on Wednesdays? I'm not even sure alcohol could explain that statement; you aren't taking shrooms and reading "Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas" are you? Wow...just wow.

I have seen figures that Notre Dame would make more money in the Big Ten. BYU won't play on Sunday, etc. Notre Dame wants to avoid secular entanglements and chooses not to affiliate for reasons having to do with its peculiar culture. What's the difference? The only difference is that the Big Ten will overlook problems Notre Dame foresees because it's Notre Dame. It's still culture that keeps Notre Dame out.

Notre Dames' chancellor or president has said as much.

Maximus
04-21-2010, 04:21 PM
??? Dude, you're nuts.

:sarcasm:

Art Vandelay
04-21-2010, 04:25 PM
I have seen figures that Notre Dame would make more money in the Big Ten. BYU won't play on Sunday, etc. Notre Dame wants to avoid secular entanglements and chooses not to affiliate for reasons having to do with its peculiar culture. What's the difference? The only difference is that the Big Ten will overlook problems Notre Dame foresees because it's Notre Dame. It's still culture that keeps Notre Dame out.

Notre Dames' chancellor or president has said as much.

Sorry I misunderstood. I thought you were saying the B10 didn't want ND for the same reason the P10 doesn't want BYU. As you clarified the B10 would take ND in a second if they agreed to bring their golden helmets along with the rest of their sports.

SeattleUte
04-21-2010, 04:26 PM
Sorry I misunderstood. I thought you were saying the B10 didn't want ND for the same reason the P10 doesn't want BYU. As you clarified the B10 would take ND in a second if they agreed to bring their golden helmets along with the rest of their sports.

As goat explained, sometimes the logic is counterintuitive in these matters.

I think BYU is squemish about being in any conference more powerful than it. Note the silence re expansion.

FMCoug
04-21-2010, 04:26 PM
I'd just like to thank SU for being a constant in a world of change. You are our rock my friend!

FMCoug
04-21-2010, 04:27 PM
As goat explained, sometimes the logic is counterintuitive in these matters.

Your logic is crystal clear. Thesis: BYU = bad. Then construct whatever argument needed to support the thesis.

Color Me Badd Fan
04-21-2010, 04:29 PM
This is the primary factor that keeps Notre Dame out of the Big 10. BYU is a rogue; it needs to be a big fish or an independent.



This is a good point. The Big 10 has been fighting Notre Dame off with a stick for as long as I can remember. I'm not sure why anyone would want to put up with their shit. If the Pac 10 could, it would jettison USC and Stanford at its first opportunity. The ACC rues the day that Duke ever got into the picture.

The Pac 10 doesn't want anything to do with BYU, but it's not because of BYU's status as a private institution, that's just a bunch of horseshit. I also don't think it's any perception of BYU being unwieldy to deal with (aside from the no Sunday play thing- which probably does play a role in the Pac 10 with its emphasis on sports outside of the Big 2). The primary reason why the Pac 10 doesn't want to be involved with BYU is because it doesn't want to be associated with the LDS Church with its political views. It would be impossible for Stanford, Cal, UW and UCLA to stomach involvement with the church. These schools are connected with three of the most politically liberal locales in country.

The Big 12 is a completely different story. First, BYU would probably lift the academic profile of that conference (with schools like Nebraska, Iowa State, K-State and Texas Tech, that's not difficult to accomplish). Politically speaking, none of the populations in Big 12 country would care about BYU's leanings, most would agree with them. True religious bigotry (not the supposed religious bigotry that CB type people accuse the Pac 10 schools of employing), won't be strong enough to keep BYU out. Perhaps a couple university presidents would object, but when faced with the situation of getting 1-2 of your own schools poached that controlled 1-2 of the biggest markets in your conference, then you have to go with the biggest program that will help ensure the other schools not to listen to the overtures of the Big 10, Pac 10 or SEC. BYU fits that bill more than Utah. Utah isn't some kind of powerhouse academic institution that will bring anything more to that table than BYU. In terms of academic prestige and research dollars, Utah simply couldn't to lift Texas's boat any more than BYU could.

OrangeUte
04-21-2010, 04:30 PM
I think you guys confused them with all that "the Harvard of the West" talk. They think they're picking up Stanford.

awesome - this made coke come out of my nose when i read it!

Donuthole
04-21-2010, 04:32 PM
awesome - this made coke come out of my nose when i read it!
I prefer Cougarboard when I'm snorting.

OrangeUte
04-21-2010, 04:35 PM
i could see the big 12 offering membership to louisville from the big east if the big east is raided by the big 10 and therefore dismantled.

OrangeUte
04-21-2010, 04:36 PM
I prefer Cougarboard when I'm snorting.

i prefer to snort and watch glenn beck.

SeattleUte
04-21-2010, 04:38 PM
This is a good point. The Big 10 has been fighting Notre Dame off with a stick for as long as I can remember. I'm not sure why anyone would want to put up with their shit. If the Pac 10 could, it would jettison USC and Stanford at its first opportunity. The ACC rues the day that Duke ever got into the picture.

The Pac 10 doesn't want anything to do with BYU, but it's not because of BYU's status as a private institution, that's just a bunch of horseshit. I also don't think it's any perception of BYU being unwieldy to deal with (aside from the no Sunday play thing- which probably does play a role in the Pac 10 with its emphasis on sports outside of the Big 2). The primary reason why the Pac 10 doesn't want to be involved with BYU is because it doesn't want to be associated with the LDS Church with its political views. It would be impossible for Stanford, Cal, UW and UCLA to stomach involvement with the church. These schools are connected with three of the most politically liberal locales in country.

The Big 12 is a completely different story. First, BYU would probably lift the academic profile of that conference (with schools like Nebraska, Iowa State, K-State and Texas Tech, that's not difficult to accomplish). Politically speaking, none of the populations in Big 12 country would care about BYU's leanings, most would agree with them. True religious bigotry (not the supposed religious bigotry that CB type people accuse the Pac 10 schools of employing), won't be strong enough to keep BYU out. Perhaps a couple university presidents would object, but when faced with the situation of getting 1-2 of your own schools poached that controlled 1-2 of the biggest markets in your conference, then you have to go with the biggest program that will help ensure the other schools not to listen to the overtures of the Big 10, Pac 10 or SEC. BYU fits that bill more than Utah. Utah isn't some kind of powerhouse academic institution that will bring anything more to that table than BYU. In terms of academic prestige and research dollars, Utah simply couldn't to lift Texas's boat any more than BYU could.

My point is that BYU is ultimately self-selecting out of the Big 12 or the Pac 10, implicitly or explicitly.

Maybe the Big 12 would take both schools. But I'm fairly confident that Utah would be preferred. Yes, the Pac 10's preference is good evidence of this. I don't know why you're saying the masses count for anything in this. Most likely they don't prefer Utah or BYU enough for general politics to matter (I recognize these are public universities). The academic communities in the Big 12 will favor Utah for the same reason that like minded people in the Pac 10 do. I'm not sure what you mean with your boat floating comment as the Cal schols and Washington don't take a back seat to Texas academically. But Texas, which probably would decide this, is constituted much like those Pac 10 schools in outlook. In terms of academic profile Utah matches the Big 12 a lot better than BYU.

landpoke
04-21-2010, 04:42 PM
Really, you might be right. That '96 game BYU played with Kansas State was good but the Wyoming BYU game in , well the one in..., ok the one in....., how about that game with UNM in...I meant in.........Ok, the one in..........

I will kick your ass old man. While that won't change history, it will make me feel better.

byu71
04-21-2010, 04:44 PM
I will kick your ass old man. While that won't change history, it will make me feel better.

I am not afraid. When I travel to Wyoming I take body guards along.

However, if you come to Utah looking for me, could I buy you off with lunch?

landpoke
04-21-2010, 04:46 PM
I am not afraid. When I travel to Wyoming I take body guards along.

However, if you come to Utah looking for me, could I buy you off with lunch?

Only if there are strippers involved.

byu71
04-21-2010, 04:48 PM
Only if there are strippers involved.

Sure, I just won't look. You can look if you want.

Color Me Badd Fan
04-21-2010, 05:04 PM
My point is that BYU is ultimately self-selecting out of the Big 12 or the Pac 10, implicitly or explicitly.

Maybe the Big 12 would take both schools. But I'm fairly confident that Utah would be preferred. Yes, the Pac 10's preference is good evidence of this. I don't know why you're saying the masses count for anything in this. Most likely they don't prefer Utah or BYU enough for general politics to matter (I recognize these are public universities). The academic communities in the Big 12 will favor Utah for the same reason that like minded people in the Pac 10 do. I'm not sure what you mean with your boat floating comment as the Cal schols and Washington don't take a back seat to Texas academically. But Texas, which probably would decide this, is constituted much like those Pac 10 schools in outlook. In terms of academic profile Utah matches the Big 12 a lot better than BYU.

SU, you're full of shit on this one. The last time any major expansion took place was when the ACC took on Va Tech, Boston College and Miami.

None of those schools are AAU schools.

Do you know what schools are AAU schools? Pitt and Syracuse. Neither school was a total slouch in athletics. Hell, Syracuse won the national championship in basketball the year before.

Why did the old ACC (which was overall more academically respected than the Big 12 with heavyweights like Duke and Virginia) take the three schools that they did? The clear answer was a combination of better athletic programs combined with bringing in bigger markets. Academics appears to have taken a decidedly secondary role in the scheme of things.

The ACC fits somewhere in between the Pac 10 and the Big 12. If Duke, Virginia, UNC, Georgia Tech and Maryland (all AAU schools and a majority of the ACC at that time) didn't have an issue letting in three non-AAU schools in lieu of two AAU schools with good to great athletics, than I don't see the members of the Big 12 objecting to BYU's inclusion into the conference.

landpoke
04-21-2010, 05:34 PM
Sure, I just won't look. You can look if you want.

Ok. You avert your eyes and I'll describe what's going on in language north of G but south of PG.

Babs
04-21-2010, 06:41 PM
:sarcasm:

Please! Can we stop with the bloody sarcasm already??

SeattleUte
04-22-2010, 08:15 AM
SU, you're full of shit on this one. The last time any major expansion took place was when the ACC took on Va Tech, Boston College and Miami.

None of those schools are AAU schools.

Do you know what schools are AAU schools? Pitt and Syracuse. Neither school was a total slouch in athletics. Hell, Syracuse won the national championship in basketball the year before.

Why did the old ACC (which was overall more academically respected than the Big 12 with heavyweights like Duke and Virginia) take the three schools that they did? The clear answer was a combination of better athletic programs combined with bringing in bigger markets. Academics appears to have taken a decidedly secondary role in the scheme of things.

The ACC fits somewhere in between the Pac 10 and the Big 12. If Duke, Virginia, UNC, Georgia Tech and Maryland (all AAU schools and a majority of the ACC at that time) didn't have an issue letting in three non-AAU schools in lieu of two AAU schools with good to great athletics, than I don't see the members of the Big 12 objecting to BYU's inclusion into the conference.

Probably the one somewhat profound thing that Cowhurd said was that no school that comes to the Pac 10 hat in hand for admission is going to tell the Pac 10 how to schedule, run its league. Same goes for the Big 12.

The other thing is that except for that weird flukey game where Bradford got hurt BYU hasn't shown it can compete on the next level in either basketball or football.

Finally, there's just something about BYU that grates; I'm not alone in this.

Blueintheface
04-22-2010, 08:19 AM
The other thing is that except for that weird flukey game where Bradford got hurt BYU hasn't shown it can compete on the next level in either basketball or football.

That's like the alcoholic who blames it all on happenstance. BYU surely had nothing to do with Bradford's injury nor the end result of the game...it just happened.

CJF
04-22-2010, 08:19 AM
Probably the one somewhat profound thing that Cowhurd said was that no school that comes to the Pac 10 hat in hand for admission is going to tell the Pac 10 how to schedule, run its league. Same goes for the Big 12.

The other thing is that except for that weird flukey game where Bradford got hurt BYU hasn't shown it can compete on the next level in either basketball or football.

Finally, there's just something about BYU that grates; I'm not alone in this.

The Big XII is the only BCS conference BYU has a winning record against in football. Outside of the Kansas loss in the Aloha Bowl and the A&M thrashing of Detmer, I can't remember the last time BYU lost to a Big XII school. Oh, Baylor in 1982. I remember that one too. Can't think of any others though.

Uncle Ted
04-22-2010, 08:27 AM
The Big XII is the only BCS conference BYU has a winning record against in football. Outside of the Kansas loss in the Aloha Bowl and the A&M thrashing of Detmer, I can't remember the last time BYU lost to a Big XII school. Oh, Baylor in 1982. I remember that one too. Can't think of any others though.

OK, I'll call BS on this one...

"The Cougars have a 14-22 overall record against Big 12 opponents. BYU has faced every team in the conference except Nebraska, and has a winning record against Missouri, Oklahoma, Texas and Texas A&M." (http://www.themtn.tv/pages/landing?BYU-Football-Season-Opens-Against-No-3-O=1&blockID=72396&feedID=2984)

CJF
04-22-2010, 08:30 AM
OK, I'll call BS on this one...

"The Cougars have a 14-22 overall record against Big 12 opponents. BYU has faced every team in the conference except Nebraska, and has a winning record against Missouri, Oklahoma, Texas and Texas A&M." (http://www.themtn.tv/pages/landing?BYU-Football-Season-Opens-Against-No-3-O=1&blockID=72396&feedID=2984)

Sorry, I meant since Lavell took over. :)

I just looked it up. 8 of those losses happened before 1950. Since Lavell became the head coach, BYU is 13-9 against the Big XII.

kccougar
04-22-2010, 08:36 AM
Since I was born in 1972, BYU is 13-8 against the Big-12 in football. I would call that competitive. If you looked at more recent data only our record is even better. Interestingly, we are 2-0 against both Oklahoma and Texas while being 0-2 against Iowa State and Oklahoma State.

Since 1972:
Baylor, 1-1
Colorado, 2-0
ISU, 0-2
Kansas, 0-1
KSU, 3-1
Missouri, 1-0
Oklahoma, 2-0
Oklahoma St, 0-2
Texas, 2-0
A&M, 2-1

I don't have the basketball figures, but I do know that just this last season we were 1-1 against the Big-12.

Uncle Ted
04-22-2010, 08:41 AM
Sorry, I meant since Lavell took over. :)

I just looked it up. 8 of those losses happened before 1950. Since Lavell became the head coach, BYU is 13-9 against the Big XII.

OK, good point: pre-Lavell doesn't count.

CJF
04-22-2010, 08:44 AM
I don't have the basketball figures, but I do know that just this last season we were 1-1 against the Big-12.

They have knocked BYU out of the dance the last three years.

TripletDaddy
04-22-2010, 08:45 AM
Since I was born in 1972, BYU is 13-8 against the Big-12 in football. I would call that competitive. If you looked at more recent data only our record is even better. Interestingly, we are 2-0 against both Oklahoma and Texas while being 0-2 against Iowa State and Oklahoma State.

Since 1972:
Baylor, 1-1
Colorado, 2-0
ISU, 0-2
Kansas, 0-1
KSU, 3-1
Missouri, 1-0
Oklahoma, 2-0
Oklahoma St, 0-2
Texas, 2-0
A&M, 2-1

I don't have the basketball figures, but I do know that just this last season we were 1-1 against the Big-12.

What is Utah's record against the B12? I don't know the answer so it very well could be just as respectable. What is it against the Pac 10?

PaloAltoCougar
04-22-2010, 08:46 AM
Finally, there's just something about BYU that grates; I'm not alone in this.

No, you're not, as your views are shared by those on Utefans who repeatedly declare how much everyone in the world hates BYU. There is a group photo of these fans next to the dictionary definition of "projection." In truth, I think most of the world doesn't much care about BYU, seeing it as neither grating nor especially noteworthy. I'm not alone in this either, and my group is bigger than yours.

Indy Coug
04-22-2010, 08:47 AM
BYU is 12-3 over the last 15 games against the Big12. Here's a breakdown of the BYU vs Big12 games since 1972 and the W-L records of the teams BYU played.



Season W/L Team Opponent Record PF PA
1972 W BYU Kansas St. 3-8-0 32 9
1973 L BYU Iowa St. 4-7-0 24 26
1974 L BYU Iowa St. 4-7-0 7 34
1974 L BYU Oklahoma St. 7-5-0 6 16
1976 L BYU Kansas St. 1-10-0 3 13
1976 L BYU Oklahoma St. 9-3-0 21 49
1977 W BYU Kansas St. 2-9-0 39 0
1979 W BYU Texas A&M 6-5-0 18 17
1981 W BYU Colorado 3-8-0 41 20
1983 L BYU Baylor 7-4-1 36 40
1983 W BYU Missouri 7-5-0 21 17
1984 W BYU Baylor 5-6-0 47 13
1987 W BYU Texas 7-5-0 22 17
1988 W BYU Colorado 8-4-0 20 17
1988 W BYU Texas 4-7-0 47 6
1990 L BYU Texas A&M 9-3-1 14 65
1992 L BYU Kansas 8-4-0 20 23
1994 W BYU Oklahoma 6-6-0 31 6
1996 W BYU Kansas St. 9-3-0 19 15
1996 W BYU Texas A&M 6-6-0 41 37
2009 W BYU Oklahoma 8-5-0 14 13

kccougar
04-22-2010, 08:52 AM
BYU is 12-3 over the last 15 games against the Big12. Here's a breakdown of the BYU vs Big12 games since 1972 and the W-L records of the teams BYU played.



Season W/L Team Opponent Record PF PA
1972 W BYU Kansas St. 3-8-0 32 9
1973 L BYU Iowa St. 4-7-0 24 26
1974 L BYU Iowa St. 4-7-0 7 34
1974 L BYU Oklahoma St. 7-5-0 6 16
1976 L BYU Kansas St. 1-10-0 3 13
1976 L BYU Oklahoma St. 9-3-0 21 49
1977 W BYU Kansas St. 2-9-0 39 0
1979 W BYU Texas A&M 6-5-0 18 17
1981 W BYU Colorado 3-8-0 41 20
1983 L BYU Baylor 7-4-1 36 40
1983 W BYU Missouri 7-5-0 21 17
1984 W BYU Baylor 5-6-0 47 13
1987 W BYU Texas 7-5-0 22 17
1988 W BYU Colorado 8-4-0 20 17
1988 W BYU Texas 4-7-0 47 6
1990 L BYU Texas A&M 9-3-1 14 65
1992 L BYU Kansas 8-4-0 20 23
1994 W BYU Oklahoma 6-6-0 31 6
1996 W BYU Kansas St. 9-3-0 19 15
1996 W BYU Texas A&M 6-6-0 41 37
2009 W BYU Oklahoma 8-5-0 14 13


Do you have the same info for Utah?

Indy Coug
04-22-2010, 08:55 AM
Utah is 3-11 over the same time span, though Utah has played much better Big12 teams on average.



Season W/L Team Opponent Record PF PA
1972 L Utah Iowa St. 5-6-1 22 44
1972 L Utah Texas Tech 8-4-0 2 45
1973 L Utah Texas Tech 11-1-0 22 29
1975 L Utah Iowa St. 4-7-0 3 31
1976 L Utah Iowa St. 8-3-0 14 44
1977 L Utah Oklahoma 10-2-0 24 62
1980 L Utah Nebraska 10-2-0 9 55
1982 L Utah Texas 9-3-0 12 21
1989 L Utah Nebraska 10-2-0 30 42
1992 L Utah Nebraska 9-3-0 22 49
1993 W Utah Kansas 5-7-0 41 16
1996 W Utah Kansas 4-7-0 45 42
2003 L Utah Texas A&M 4-8-0 26 28
2004 W Utah Texas A&M 7-5-0 41 21

Hot Lunch
04-22-2010, 08:56 AM
OK, good point: pre-Lavell doesn't count.

Utah says that pre-urban doesn't count either.

kccougar
04-22-2010, 08:57 AM
Utah is 3-11 over the same time span, though Utah has played much better Big12 teams on average.



Season W/L Team Opponent Record PF PA
1972 L Utah Iowa St. 5-6-1 22 44
1972 L Utah Texas Tech 8-4-0 2 45
1973 L Utah Texas Tech 11-1-0 22 29
1975 L Utah Iowa St. 4-7-0 3 31
1976 L Utah Iowa St. 8-3-0 14 44
1977 L Utah Oklahoma 10-2-0 24 62
1980 L Utah Nebraska 10-2-0 9 55
1982 L Utah Texas 9-3-0 12 21
1989 L Utah Nebraska 10-2-0 30 42
1992 L Utah Nebraska 9-3-0 22 49
1993 W Utah Kansas 5-7-0 41 16
1996 W Utah Kansas 4-7-0 45 42
2003 L Utah Texas A&M 4-8-0 26 28
2004 W Utah Texas A&M 7-5-0 41 21

How about Pac-10 matchups for both schools?

Surfah
04-22-2010, 08:58 AM
Utah says that pre-urban doesn't count either.

Our snapshot in time is bigger than your snapshot in time!

byu71
04-22-2010, 08:58 AM
Finally, there's just something about BYU that grates; I'm not alone in this.

I think that is a very true statement. Although not alone, your reaction to it is part of a vast minority (vast being used very sarcastically).

Hot Lunch
04-22-2010, 08:59 AM
Our snapshot in time is bigger than your snapshot in time!

So what, Utah has the SUGAR BOWL..... Going SU on you right there.

Surfah
04-22-2010, 09:02 AM
So what, Utah has the SUGAR BOWL..... Going SU on you right there.

Why'd you pull that trump card out so early? :( We all know it doesn't compare to winning a national championship. Not fair.

kccougar
04-22-2010, 09:02 AM
So what, Utah has the SUGAR BOWL..... Going SU on you right there.

We're #2! We're #2!

(and we've got banners to prove it)

Hot Lunch
04-22-2010, 09:04 AM
Why'd you pull that trump card out so early? :( We all know it doesn't compare to winning a national championship. Not fair.

It is the only thing that we have. I was doing my best SU impression.