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Shaka
01-28-2010, 09:56 PM
What an interesting turn of events.

Maximus
01-28-2010, 10:01 PM
What an interesting turn of events.

Is axed the right term?

Shaka
01-28-2010, 10:02 PM
Does pulled scollie work for you?

byu71
01-28-2010, 10:06 PM
The usual, "I know the real story and if you knew it you would totally support Bronco" comments are out there. Haven't seen them on CB, but have seen them. Let the stories start that he is worthy to attend BYU.

Maximus
01-28-2010, 10:06 PM
Does pulled scollie work for you?

He threatened to pull if he started to investigate other schools.

Do most schools commit schollies to people who dont commit?

Shaka
01-28-2010, 10:07 PM
He threatened to pull if he started to investigate other schools.

Do most schools commit schollies to people who dont commit?

I wasn't implying anything just passing along the news. And yes, axed works as a descriptive term for this event.

il Padrino Ute
01-28-2010, 10:08 PM
Crazy in what way? That they're ready to give Mendenhall the Jamie Hill treatment? That they're ready to descend upon South Bend in order to give Kona the Jaime Hill treatment?

mpfunk
01-28-2010, 10:28 PM
I see no problem with BM and the way he is handling recruiting with this one. He played hardball with the kid to prevent him from tripping to Notre Dame and it looks like it may backfire. That being said if this quote is true it is low blow by BM and inappropriate "He told us about how if Kona didnít stay true to his commit by going to Notre Dame, then he couldnít possibly expect him to stay true to the honor code and other things at BYU."

It is a 17-18 year old kid and to imply that backing out on a verbal commitment doesn't mean they cannot live the honor code. There are plenty of kids on the BYU team that appear to live the honor code even though they backed out on verbal commitments to other team.s

SeattleUte
01-28-2010, 10:29 PM
This is typical BYU fan bullshit. BYU would never suffer a decommit. It's got to be "Bronco pulled the scholie" (even though the writing was on the wall). Even when Utah basketball had the longest home winning streak in the nation I'd never have claimed the Huntsman Center was a bigger home court advantage than the Pit. But no, BYU fans have to have the toughest home court advantage, even this week when claiming that is counterproductive for their own team. If someone said UNLV has the best basketball tradition, I'd agree to disagree. If someone said Air Force has the most competitive undergraduate classes, I'd yield the point. I'd argue with you if you denied Utah is the best overall university in the conference academically, but that's about it. I'd probably make a case for Utah being the best overall DI tradition and program. But I wouldn't have to try to make Utah look invulnerable in every field.

Guess what. A decommit is not shameful! It means you're getting commits who are desireable.

BYU fans are such insecure assholes!

byu71
01-28-2010, 10:34 PM
I see no problem with BM and the way he is handling recruiting with this one. He played hardball with the kid to prevent him from tripping to Notre Dame and it looks like it may backfire. That being said if this quote is true it is low blow by BM and inappropriate "He told us about how if Kona didnít stay true to his commit by going to Notre Dame, then he couldnít possibly expect him to stay true to the honor code and other things at BYU."

It is a 17-18 year old kid and to imply that backing out on a verbal commitment doesn't mean they cannot live the honor code. There are plenty of kids on the BYU team that appear to live the honor code even though they backed out on verbal commitments to other team.s

It is part of our DNA. You leave and join another church you are an apostate. You leave and join our church you are a convert. I have no problem with that if the words didn't have an inherent good and bad tone to them.

byu71
01-28-2010, 10:37 PM
This is typical BYU fan bullshit. BYU would never suffer a decommit. It's got to be "Bronco pulled the scholie" (even though the writing was on the wall). Even when Utah basketball had the longest home winning streak in the nation I'd never have claimed the Huntsman Center was a bigger home court advantage than the Pit. But no, BYU fans have to have the toughest home court advantage, even this week when claiming that is counterproductive for their own team. If someone said UNLV has the best basketball tradition, I'd agree to disagree. If someone said Air Force has the most competitive undergraduate classes, I'd yield the point. I'd argue with you if you denied Utah is the best overall university in the conference academically, but that's about it. I'd probably make a case for Utah being the best overall DI tradition and program. But I wouldn't have to try to make Utah look invulnerable in every field.

Guess what. A decommit is not shameful! It means you're getting commits who are desireable.

BYU fans are such insecure assholes!

Pot meet kettle seems appropriate. Maybe asshole meets butthole.

SeattleUte
01-28-2010, 10:37 PM
I see no problem with BM and the way he is handling recruiting with this one. He played hardball with the kid to prevent him from tripping to Notre Dame and it looks like it may backfire. That being said if this quote is true it is low blow by BM and inappropriate "He told us about how if Kona didnít stay true to his commit by going to Notre Dame, then he couldnít possibly expect him to stay true to the honor code and other things at BYU."

It is a 17-18 year old kid and to imply that backing out on a verbal commitment doesn't mean they cannot live the honor code. There are plenty of kids on the BYU team that appear to live the honor code even though they backed out on verbal commitments to other team.s

This is typical Bronco. He's been smearing Mati Teo ever since he committed to Notre Dame saying he went there because he wanted to drink and screw around, etc.

Maximus
01-28-2010, 10:45 PM
This is typical Bronco. He's been smearing Mati Teo ever since he committed to Notre Dame saying he went there because he wanted to drink and screw around, etc.

Except he never said that. But good try!

landpoke
01-28-2010, 10:47 PM
Am I the only one who appreciates the genius that is ChinaFan? That guy brings it strong every time.

HBCoug
01-28-2010, 10:55 PM
Am I the only one who appreciates the genius that is ChinaFan? That guy brings it strong every time.

No...no you are not. I especially dig the random capitalization of words to really drive his POINTS home.

falafel
01-28-2010, 10:55 PM
This is typical BYU fan bullshit. BYU would never suffer a decommit. It's got to be "Bronco pulled the scholie" (even though the writing was on the wall). Even when Utah basketball had the longest home winning streak in the nation I'd never have claimed the Huntsman Center was a bigger home court advantage than the Pit. But no, BYU fans have to have the toughest home court advantage, even this week when claiming that is counterproductive for their own team. If someone said UNLV has the best basketball tradition, I'd agree to disagree. If someone said Air Force has the most competitive undergraduate classes, I'd yield the point. I'd argue with you if you denied Utah is the best overall university in the conference academically, but that's about it. I'd probably make a case for Utah being the best overall DI tradition and program. But I wouldn't have to try to make Utah look invulnerable in every field.

Guess what. A decommit is not shameful! It means you're getting commits who are desireable.

BYU fans are such insecure assholes!

Kona doesn't even have an offer from ND yet.

MarkGrace
01-28-2010, 11:05 PM
Kona doesn't even have an offer from ND yet.

Yes he does.

old_gregg
01-28-2010, 11:08 PM
I'd argue with you if you denied Utah is the best overall university in the conference academically

swing and a miss there, man.

falafel
01-28-2010, 11:09 PM
Yes he does.

Not per Scout.

il Padrino Ute
01-28-2010, 11:10 PM
Not per Scout.

psst...you were supposed to say "does not!"

Bastage
01-28-2010, 11:18 PM
Per Scout he does:

"Despite the Irish getting involved late in the game, it would appear that Notre Dame has a chance to sign Kona Schwenke (6-foo-4, 230-pounds). After inviting Kona on an official visit earlier in the week, the Notre Dame coaching staff followed up today with a scholarship offer."

http://notredame.scout.com/2/941589.html

cougjunkie
01-28-2010, 11:23 PM
First of all SU if you read the quotes it says that he is still fully committed to BYU but wanted to visit some friends. Bronco said bullshit no reason to trip if you are fully committed to BYU. Then the kid said well I prayed about it and BYU is where I am supposed to be, however I want to visit my boys Manti and Roby Toma out in South Bend. Bronco says sorry if this is where you truly think you need to be then no more recruiting trips. Kona says well I am going ot take this regardless, but I am still committed to you. Bronco says go ahead and take it but we are no longer going to hold your schollie.

Kona is pissed, his dad is pissed, yet for some reason they still take the trip.

HuskyFreeNorthwest
01-28-2010, 11:48 PM
This is typical BYU fan bullshit. BYU would never suffer a decommit. It's got to be "Bronco pulled the scholie" (even though the writing was on the wall). Even when Utah basketball had the longest home winning streak in the nation I'd never have claimed the Huntsman Center was a bigger home court advantage than the Pit. But no, BYU fans have to have the toughest home court advantage, even this week when claiming that is counterproductive for their own team. If someone said UNLV has the best basketball tradition, I'd agree to disagree. If someone said Air Force has the most competitive undergraduate classes, I'd yield the point. I'd argue with you if you denied Utah is the best overall university in the conference academically, but that's about it. I'd probably make a case for Utah being the best overall DI tradition and program. But I wouldn't have to try to make Utah look invulnerable in every field.

Guess what. A decommit is not shameful! It means you're getting commits who are desireable.

BYU fans are such insecure assholes!

I knew it, deep down you like Oregon.

HuskyFreeNorthwest
01-28-2010, 11:50 PM
First of all SU if you read the quotes it says that he is still fully committed to BYU but wanted to visit some friends. Bronco said bullshit no reason to trip if you are fully committed to BYU. Then the kid said well I prayed about it and BYU is where I am supposed to be, however I want to visit my boys Manti and Roby Toma out in South Bend. Bronco says sorry if this is where you truly think you need to be then no more recruiting trips. Kona says well I am going ot take this regardless, but I am still committed to you. Bronco says go ahead and take it but we are no longer going to hold your schollie.

Kona is pissed, his dad is pissed, yet for some reason they still take the trip.

It would appear that if this is true, and you have a pretty damn good track record, then between Teo, Heimuli and Kona, Bronco has proven he has no idea how to recruit high profile players.

cougjunkie
01-28-2010, 11:55 PM
It would appear that if this is true, and you have a pretty damn good track record, then between Teo, Heimuli and Kona, Bronco has proven he has no idea how to recruit high profile poly players.

I fixed it for you.

SeattleUte
01-29-2010, 12:55 AM
swing and a miss there, man.

:confused:

Who else would it be? Not BYU.

old_gregg
01-29-2010, 01:04 AM
us news disagrees, as do average incoming sat scores, act scores, and gpa. also, byu has number one (top three in all rankings, at least) programs (undergraduate business, accounting, finance). the u's medical school isn't even in the top 50, and that's its most elite program. and, it's tough to compare that to byu because we don't have a medical school. but, you know, whatever.

Viking
01-29-2010, 04:14 AM
us news disagrees, as do average incoming sat scores, act scores, and gpa. also, byu has number one (top three in all rankings, at least) programs (undergraduate business, accounting, finance). the u's medical school isn't even in the top 50, and that's its most elite program. and, it's tough to compare that to byu because we don't have a medical school. but, you know, whatever.
BYU is a remarkably mediocre school. Utah is even more so. But relative to real schools, they both suck. I guess we could get into a "we suck less" debate, in which case BYU wins.

Jeff Lebowski
01-29-2010, 07:39 AM
us news disagrees, as do average incoming sat scores, act scores, and gpa. also, byu has number one (top three in all rankings, at least) programs (undergraduate business, accounting, finance). the u's medical school isn't even in the top 50, and that's its most elite program. and, it's tough to compare that to byu because we don't have a medical school. but, you know, whatever.

lol.

It's all about picking the right metric I guess.

Jeff Lebowski
01-29-2010, 07:45 AM
:confused:

Who else would it be? Not BYU.

SDSU or Utah.

Indy Coug
01-29-2010, 07:47 AM
BYU is what it is: a great place to hook up with a hot LDS chick. There is no shame in that purpose. There are a lot of very smart students at BYU and the entrance requirements are pretty darn high, high enough to be comparable to other very high-profile universities, but that doesn't necessarily correlate to an across-the-board high level of undergraduate (let alone graduate) programs.

As a BYU student, I was underwhelmed with the quality of teaching on a number of different fronts. I went to a private HS and the quality of teaching was consistently better there than at BYU.

byu71
01-29-2010, 07:54 AM
BYU is what it is: a great place to hook up with a LDS chick or a hot LDS chick at UVU. There is no shame in that purpose. There are a lot of very smart students at BYU and the entrance requirements are pretty darn high, high enough to be comparable to other very high-profile universities, but that doesn't necessarily correlate to an across-the-board high level of undergraduate (let alone graduate) programs.

As a BYU student, I was underwhelmed with the quality of teaching on a number of different fronts. I went to a private HS and the quality of teaching was consistently better there than at BYU.

I think you are speaking of days gone by. I have made a correction to more accurately reflect current conditions.

RobinFinderson
01-29-2010, 08:11 AM
BYU fans are such insecure assholes!

This is a really jerky thing to say, SU. People struggle with insecurity to the point that they need meds. The last thing they need is some rich lawyer telling them they are assholes.

LA Ute
01-29-2010, 08:13 AM
BYU is hard to get into because lots of kids want to go there because it is the Church's university. Not because it is academically elite. Still, I think it is a very solid undergraduate institution and its business school is top-notch. Every lawyer I know who is a BYU law grad is a very solid attorney too.

Indy Coug
01-29-2010, 08:14 AM
SU calling someone an asshole is just about the highest form of validation you can get. The only thing higher than that is a "well done, thou good and faithful servant" pat on the head.

smokymountainrain
01-29-2010, 08:17 AM
It would appear that if this is true, and you have a pretty damn good track record, then between Teo, Heimuli and Kona, Bronco has proven he has no idea how to recruit high profile players.

If what CJ said is true, it is truly a shame how Bronco has chosen to handle this situation. He comes off as a big time POS.

Indy Coug
01-29-2010, 08:20 AM
If what CJ said is true, it is truly a shame how Bronco has chosen to handle this situation. He comes off as a big time POS.

Listen, if Bronco explains up front what a committment to BYU entails (and he does) and the recruits agrees to those conditions, I don't know how anyone can fault Bronco for actually following through. Frankly, for Kona and father to do this at 11:59PM on the recruiting clock has them coming off as big time POS.

LA Ute
01-29-2010, 08:21 AM
Listen, if Bronco explains up front what a committment to BYU entails (and he does) and the recruits agrees to those conditions, I don't know how anyone can fault Bronco for actually following through. Frankly, for Kona and father to do this at 11:59PM on the recruiting clock has them coming off as big time POS.

:iagree:

smokymountainrain
01-29-2010, 08:24 AM
Listen, if Bronco explains up front what a committment to BYU entails (and he does) and the recruits agrees to those conditions, I don't know how anyone can fault Bronco for actually following through. Frankly, for Kona and father to do this at 11:59PM on the recruiting clock has them coming off as big time POS.

So Bronco explained prior to Kona's commit that by committing, he couldn't accept any invites to other universities to visit buddies? I guess I missed that part of the story.

Based on what I'm reading, it seems Bronco told Kona about this after he had committed to BYU and after ND had invited him out and after he'd decided to go to South Bend.

Goatnapper'96
01-29-2010, 08:28 AM
What an interesting turn of events.

Well there goes my prediction of cooler heads prevailing. I know nothing about this situation but it is my opinion that there is likely more to the story than we can read. I assume this simply because it is my opinion that Bronco wants to win games. I give him the benefit of the doubt that he knows it is easier to win games with better football players. Hence, I conclude that given his druthers and all things being equal he would prefer more talented athletes than less talented athletes. At some point he made a decision that he no longer preferred this athlete. The young kid going on a recruiting trip, in and of itself, doesn't strike my common sense as a reason to no longer prefer the more talented athlete over the less talented athlete. I reject the notions of Bronco being a moron so I am left to conclude there is more to the story than I am presently being told. However, if the story is as simple as the Schwenke's profess, then Bronco made a boo-boo.

Can I say, for the millionth time, that I am always skeptical of he that prays and God tells him to go and play football at BYU? Personal revelation is the ultimate crutch in LDS culture. If you want anything claim God told you and there NOTHING anyone can say in the opposite.

Surfah
01-29-2010, 08:29 AM
If what CJ said is true, it is truly a shame how Bronco has chosen to handle this situation. He comes off as a big time POS.

How so? You think Bronco is the only coach who says he'll yank a player's schollie if they start tripping after they've committed?

Bronco did nothing wrong. If Kona is 100% committed then why trip to ND? To hang out with friends? :rofl:

Indy Coug
01-29-2010, 08:30 AM
So Bronco explained prior to Kona's commit that by committing, he couldn't accept any invites to other universities to visit buddies? I guess I missed that part of the story.

Based on what I'm reading, it seems Bronco told Kona about this after he had committed to BYU and after ND had invited him out and after he'd decided to go to South Bend.

If the sole reason for his trip was just to visit his buddies, would he really allow that to cost him a scholarship? Do you really believe that for a second? McKay's comments to the ND recruiting site makes it clear they viewed it as much more than a social visit.

There's a lot more going on behind the scenes.

HBCoug
01-29-2010, 08:32 AM
So Bronco explained prior to Kona's commit that by committing, he couldn't accept any invites to other universities to visit buddies? I guess I missed that part of the story.

Based on what I'm reading, it seems Bronco told Kona about this after he had committed to BYU and after ND had invited him out and after he'd decided to go to South Bend.

It's not just visiting buddies @ Notre Dame. He has already planned trips to Washington and Purdue aside from the trip to South Bend. The kid was jerking BYU around and Bronco called him on it. I guess it's important for some to differentiate between who dumped whom first, but either way I'm guessing Indy's claim of BYU having the 12th best D-Line recruiting class without Heimuli is no longer intact.

Indy Coug
01-29-2010, 08:33 AM
...either way I'm guessing Indy's claim of BYU having the 12th best D-Line recruiting class without Heimuli is no longer intact.

That claim was Scout.com, not mine.

Goatnapper'96
01-29-2010, 08:34 AM
If what CJ said is true, it is truly a shame how Bronco has chosen to handle this situation. He comes off as a big time POS.

I don't think one can conclude Bronco is a POS. If it happened the way the Schwenke's claim, which I highly doubt but if one isn't a fan of Mendenhall or feels the trollish impulse to stand independent of the mindless swath of mormon culture Bronco worshipping dipshitaye then taking their side is attractive and convenient (not that I would ever in my life assume you like to oppose/criticize Bronco because of the mindless masses who adore him -trully that thought would never enter my brain), then one can conclude Bronco made a dumb tactical error and he probably is not the man I would want representing my interests in a business negotiation, but there is nothing he did here that would qualify him as a POS.

Likewise, I cannot find anything in the Schwenke's did to make them POS' either. Recruiting is an interesting game with many factors stacked against a 17 or 18 year old kid. Nothing wrong with taking advantage of the positions of strength until the last moment. I can't fault the kid even if there was a double pinkie handshake and sacrifice jointly offered to the great gods of the word "commitment."

myboynoah
01-29-2010, 08:34 AM
How so? You think Bronco is the only coach who says he'll yank a player's schollie if they start tripping after they've committed?

Bronco did nothing wrong. If Kona is 100% committed then why trip to ND? To hang out with friends? :rofl:

Yeah, then ND are the fools.

He says he still has a trip to Washington. How's that going to work?

Also, I love Bronco for telling people, FU we are BYU.

Goatnapper'96
01-29-2010, 08:36 AM
Yeah, then ND are the fools.

He says he still has a trip to Washington. How's that going to work?

My guess is the trip to ND ends tonight and he is off to Washington until Sunday evening.

Surfah
01-29-2010, 08:37 AM
Yeah, then ND are the fools.

He says he still has a trip to Washington. How's that going to work?

If it's an official visit it has to happen after signing day.

dabrockster
01-29-2010, 08:39 AM
Doesn't this open up a schollie for the kid from USC that is coming to BYU?

It looks like BM is not going to be burned by another Teo type and has cut it before it got more painful.. I am on board with whatever BM does. He has built a solid program and it is paying off.

Do what you gotta do BM...

Indy Coug
01-29-2010, 08:42 AM
My guess is the trip to ND ends tonight and he is off to Washington until Sunday evening.

The magic question is why all of the last second scurrying around by Kona? He's had months to do this, so why now and why so many different schools?

MarkGrace
01-29-2010, 08:43 AM
So Bronco explained prior to Kona's commit that by committing, he couldn't accept any invites to other universities to visit buddies? I guess I missed that part of the story.

According to the parents of other commits, this is exactly what Bronco tells kids. And according to what I've read, this is exactly what most coaches tell kids.

Goatnapper'96
01-29-2010, 08:45 AM
The magic question is why all of the last second scurrying around by Kona? He's had months to do this, so why now and why so many different schools?

I think it is obvious that Kona was looking around, why else would the family offer up as cover from the airport, enroute to merely visit his buddies with his parents as they are probably concerned about Manti's influence on Kona without them as chaperones, that Alllllllmighty God had packaged Kona for the BYU? They were attempting to stroke it to the left..stroke it to the right!

TripletDaddy
01-29-2010, 08:57 AM
How so? You think Bronco is the only coach who says he'll yank a player's schollie if they start tripping after they've committed?

Bronco did nothing wrong. If Kona is 100% committed then why trip to ND? To hang out with friends? :rofl:

I am not sure if he is the only one, but I have never heard of that at SC. And players there keep taking trips all the time. It is a pretty common thing to do. This is why the coaches have to keep flying around and calling these kids....because they keep getting recruited up until the final bell rings.

SC has also landed some kabooms in the final week because commits to other schools have taken trips to SC after giving a commit elsewhere. This weekend, Jordan Zumwalt (LB) is visiting SC....he already committed to the Trees.

I agree with smokymountainrain.....Bronco comes across as small time. Disallowing someone from taking a free trip to another school? How insecure can you get?

beefytee
01-29-2010, 08:58 AM
As a BYU student, I was underwhelmed with the quality of teaching on a number of different fronts. I went to a private HS and the quality of teaching was consistently better there than at BYU.

What leads you think that other universities are any better?

HS teachers are required to have education degrees (perhaps not private schools like you attended, but public schools), university professors are not.

At a lot of the prestigious schools, you rarely see professors teaching undergraduate courses anyways. Most of them are taught by graduate students.

Indy Coug
01-29-2010, 09:01 AM
What leads you think that other universities are any better?

HS teachers are required to have education degrees (perhaps not private schools like you attended, but public schools), university professors are not.

At a lot of the prestigious schools, you rarely see professors teaching undergraduate courses anyways. Most of them are taught by graduate students.

Maybe I'm just funny this way, but when my education costs that much money, I'd appreciate it if the person teaching me can actually teach rather than being a researcher moonlighting as a regurgitator of textbooks.

jay santos
01-29-2010, 09:03 AM
First of all SU if you read the quotes it says that he is still fully committed to BYU but wanted to visit some friends. Bronco said bullshit no reason to trip if you are fully committed to BYU. Then the kid said well I prayed about it and BYU is where I am supposed to be, however I want to visit my boys Manti and Roby Toma out in South Bend. Bronco says sorry if this is where you truly think you need to be then no more recruiting trips. Kona says well I am going ot take this regardless, but I am still committed to you. Bronco says go ahead and take it but we are no longer going to hold your schollie.

Kona is pissed, his dad is pissed, yet for some reason they still take the trip.

If this is how it went down, then I think Kona made the right choice. If you're a big time athlete with a lot of people courting you, a big part of the equation is which coach believes in you the most. Entering into a relationship with a coach that you have friction with, when you have other options, is not a good decision.

byu71
01-29-2010, 09:04 AM
This is a really jerky thing to say, SU. People struggle with insecurity to the point that they need meds. The last thing they need is some rich lawyer telling them they are assholes.

This isn't true in all cases of course, but have you ever notice the accusation of insecurity often is thrown out by someone who is insecure.

Beware of the preacher who constantly harps on others infidelities. Beware of the State Senator who is adamant about strong liquor laws.

I am not saying those who advocate good things always are acting in a contrary manner, just to be aware if they seem to have an obsession about it.

Like I know a guy who knocks the honor code obsessively. I supsect it is a cover for the fact he loves it

SCcoug
01-29-2010, 09:06 AM
Like I know a guy who knocks the honor code obsessively. I supsect it is a cover for the fact he loves it

lol

jay santos
01-29-2010, 09:11 AM
Well there goes my prediction of cooler heads prevailing. I know nothing about this situation but it is my opinion that there is likely more to the story than we can read. I assume this simply because it is my opinion that Bronco wants to win games. I give him the benefit of the doubt that he knows it is easier to win games with better football players. Hence, I conclude that given his druthers and all things being equal he would prefer more talented athletes than less talented athletes. At some point he made a decision that he no longer preferred this athlete. The young kid going on a recruiting trip, in and of itself, doesn't strike my common sense as a reason to no longer prefer the more talented athlete over the less talented athlete. I reject the notions of Bronco being a moron so I am left to conclude there is more to the story than I am presently being told. However, if the story is as simple as the Schwenke's profess, then Bronco made a boo-boo.

Can I say, for the millionth time, that I am always skeptical of he that prays and God tells him to go and play football at BYU? Personal revelation is the ultimate crutch in LDS culture. If you want anything claim God told you and there NOTHING anyone can say in the opposite.

What if you added this into your assumptions...

Bronco's not stupid.

Bronco wants to win games.

Bronco's ego and pride won't allow him to comply with the standard coaching requirement of kissing 18 yo ass to bring in a great recruiting class?

Indy Coug
01-29-2010, 09:12 AM
Bronco's ego and pride won't allow him to comply with the standard coaching requirement of kissing 18 yo ass to bring in a great recruiting class?

LOL

HuskyFreeNorthwest
01-29-2010, 09:17 AM
Listen, if Bronco explains up front what a committment to BYU entails (and he does) and the recruits agrees to those conditions, I don't know how anyone can fault Bronco for actually following through. Frankly, for Kona and father to do this at 11:59PM on the recruiting clock has them coming off as big time POS.

Let's say you are a goat cheese salesman. There is a new restaurant opening soon that will be that will be using tons of goat cheese, they put that crap on every dish, you meet with Herbert the owner of the place and give Herbert the pitch of why he should buy your brand and he loves it. Herbert tells you "I want to use your goat cheese", and the day he opens the store he will have your brand of goat cheese in the kitchen.

You keep contact with Herbert and he keeps doing everything you want and confirming that he wants no other brand, that your brand had sold him from the very beginning. Then about a week before the restaurant opens, Herbert tells you "I am still buying your brand, I think your brand is the best and want to serve it. I am going to have lunch with the salesman from a different brand because we have been friends since we were kids and I want to spend an afternoon with them catching up." So you tell Herbert that you don't want him to meet the other salesman, in fact you are still upset at one of the guys from the other brand because you tried to get him to be a junior salesman. Herbert says "I am still with you, I am not changing cheese distributors. I am just having lunch with a friend that someone else is willing to pay for."

Herbert wants to convince you of the fact that he is committed to buying your cheese so much, that he puts his financial backer Fredrick in touch with you, Fredrick tells you "Herbert is just having lunch with his friends, he and I are still buying your brand of cheese next week when we open."

As a salesman is your response "If you have lunch with the other cheese company, I won't sell you our cheese anymore."? To me, that hard sell message says that you aren't very secure in your brand of cheese. That dealing with you for the rest of the time my restaurant is open is going to be a rough time. To me it would say that you are telling me at 11:59 that I no longer have a distributor of my main ingredient.

Goatnapper'96
01-29-2010, 09:17 AM
What if you added this into your assumptions...

Bronco's not stupid.

Bronco wants to win games.

Bronco's ego and pride won't allow him to comply with the standard coaching requirement of kissing 18 yo ass to bring in a great recruiting class?

I think Bronco hates recruiting for the reasons you state. I think he is old school and that is his approach. I think given the rigidity of BYU as an institution, he might have a point that if the kids struggle with his blunt up front approach they might not make it through BYU.

What I am getting at is that I genuinely think that Bronco thinks his approach is what is better for BYU's football program. I don't think his personal pride gets in the way of him doing what he thinks is best for BYU's program. I am not sure I totally agree with his approach but I think it best to judge him by his overall track record. I think Bronco believes that his program is benefitted more by a less talented athlete who will be there for his entire elgibility than it would be with a supremely talented athlete who he has reasons to suppose won't make it for more than a year or two. Now those reasons why kids wash out go way and above the HC.

So I don't buy that Mendenhall's pride is the impediment to his success that other's indicate. I think he recruits in a manner that he believes will benefit his program over the long haul.

cougjunkie
01-29-2010, 09:17 AM
What people arent understanding is Bronco saw the writing on the wall with this kid. He knew this kid was wavering and bottom line like they say in the mortgage industry "last Liar wins". The last person in this kids ear was going to be Brian Kelly. With how much he was wavering to begin with and the dead period starting Sunday. Brian Kelly was going to have the last word. So Bronco made a power play and figured hey we are going to lose this kid regardless, lets try to set a precedent for all future recruits.

To some it looks like it backfired but I think Bronco knows what he is doing and he is well aware of the can of worms he just opened. Khori Gaines father said that Bronco flat out told him and his son when you commit it is a two way street BYU is 100% committed to you, and you are 100% committed to BYU. Do not commit to BYU if you are not ready to fulfill that commitment and we will not offer a schollie to you if we are not ready to fulfill it as well.

Gaines father said Bronco made it abundantly clear that you should not commit unless you were 100% certain BYU was the place for you.

Goatnapper'96
01-29-2010, 09:21 AM
Let's say you are a goat cheese salesman. There is a new restaurant opening soon that will be that will be using tons of goat cheese, they put that crap on every dish, you meet with Herbert the owner of the place and give Herbert the pitch of why he should buy your brand and he loves it. Herbert tells you "I want to use your goat cheese", and the day he opens the store he will have your brand of goat cheese in the kitchen.

You keep contact with Herbert and he keeps doing everything you want and confirming that he wants no other brand, that your brand had sold him from the very beginning. Then about a week before the restaurant opens, Herbert tells you "I am still buying your brand, I think your brand is the best and want to serve it. I am going to have lunch with the salesman from a different brand because we have been friends since we were kids and I want to spend an afternoon with them catching up." So you tell Herbert that you don't want him to meet the other salesman, in fact you are still upset at one of the guys from the other brand because you tried to get him to be a junior salesman. Herbert says "I am still with you, I am not changing cheese distributors. I am just having lunch with a friend that someone else is willing to pay for."

Herbert wants to convince you of the fact that he is committed to buying your cheese so much, that he puts his financial backer Fredrick in touch with you, Fredrick tells you "Herbert is just having lunch with his friends, he and I are still buying your brand of cheese next week when we open."

As a salesman is your response "If you have lunch with the other cheese company, I won't sell you our cheese anymore."? To me, that hard sell message says that you aren't very secure in your brand of cheese. That dealing with you for the rest of the time my restaurant is open is going to be a rough time. To me it would say that you are telling me at 11:59 that I no longer have a distributor of my main ingredient.

Between my love of Jenna Jameson and Bronco, he gets all the goat cheese the man can handle!

BOWN BICHA BOWN BOWN!

Surfah
01-29-2010, 09:24 AM
What people arent understanding is Bronco saw the writing on the wall with this kid. He knew this kid was wavering and bottom line like they say in the mortgage industry "last Liar wins". The last person in this kids ear was going to be Brian Kelly. With how much he was wavering to begin with and the dead period starting Sunday. Brian Kelly was going to have the last word. So Bronco made a power play and figured hey we are going to lose this kid regardless, lets try to set a precedent for all future recruits.

To some it looks like it backfired but I think Bronco knows what he is doing and he is well aware of the can of worms he just opened. Khori Gaines father said that Bronco flat out told him and his son when you commit it is a two way street BYU is 100% committed to you, and you are 100% committed to BYU. Do not commit to BYU if you are not ready to fulfill that commitment and we will not offer a schollie to you if we are not ready to fulfill it as well.

Gaines father said Bronco made it abundantly clear that you should not commit unless you were 100% certain BYU was the place for you.

I have heard people say the same thing of Texas. Supposedly they give you two weeks once offered to accept. If you don't they move on. If you do you're expected to drop remaining visits.

Paul Johnson also pulled a scholarship from Dontay Acock after he tripped to Auburn.



Quarterback Dontae Aycock of Tampa, who “secretly committed” to Georgia Tech in mid-January and then had his scholarship revoked by the Yellow Jackets after taking an official visit to Auburn, told his version of events to the AJC’s Jeff Hood on Thursday. Aycock, who signed with Auburn, admitted “I didn’t think [Tech] would pull [the scholarship]. I just wanted to go to Auburn to look.”

On Friday, Georgia Tech coach Paul Johnson was asked this question: When did you develop your “commitment” philosophy?

“We tell kids all the time in our office ‘Look around and make sure this is what you want to do,’” Johnson said. “I am not trying to keep kids from looking around. I think they need to look around. But when you decide and commit, then you’re giving people your word that you’re coming. It’s not a game. It’s not ‘Ok, I’ll take this one unless I can find something better. Or let me lock this down there so I can shop around for some other spots.’ If you’re doing that, you’re not committing.”

“Why don’t you say this school is leading? Or this school is way out in front? It’s the same thing with Dontae. Had Dontae not committed, we would’ve continued to recruit him probably up to a point where we would’ve said something like ‘Hey we’ve got to know something or we have to move on.’”

“There’s this fallacy out there that everybody is going to take five visits and decide on signing day. We know that’s not going to happen. That’s all it is. Commitment to me means if they tell me they are coming, then I expect that they are coming. If they tell you you’re coming, then why are they taking more visits?”

“I view anybody that’s still visiting [other] schools as not committed. That’s just me. That’s just the way I do it. Well, people say ‘That’s a double standard because you let other kids visit [Tech] who are committed [to other schools]. That’s not my problem. Maybe it’s a soft commitment. There may be a [college] coach somewhere else saying ‘Give me a soft commitment and go ahead take your visits.’”

“We recruited Dontae for a whole year. Nobody twisted his arm and made him commit to Georgia Tech. I didn’t say ‘If you leave here, I’m moving on or anything. He [Aycock] came to me on [the Sunday during his official visit to Tech], and said ‘Coach, this is what I want to do. I’m coming [to Tech].’ I said ‘Are you sure? He said ‘Yeah, I told my [high school] coach yesterday. I called him.’ I said ‘Is he good with you doing this?’ Yeah he’s good with it. ‘You know this means no more visits? Recruiting is over?’ He said ‘I know coach, but I want to keep it quiet.’

“That’s not right either. If the whole story was told, Dontae would tell you that I made him call Lousville and tell them that he wasn’t coming. I told him that’s only fair to Louisville. He went [the following day] and did that. There was a lot more to it. Then he got some bad advice. And maybe not. Maybe he wanted to go to Auburn anyways. That’s what I took it as. If he wanted to visit Auburn, then he wanted to go there.”

That sounds pretty insecure and small time to me. :rolleyes:

Indy Coug
01-29-2010, 09:24 AM
Let's say you are a goat cheese salesman. There is a new restaurant opening soon that will be that will be using tons of goat cheese, they put that crap on every dish, you meet with Herbert the owner of the place and give Herbert the pitch of why he should buy your brand and he loves it. Herbert tells you "I want to use your goat cheese", and the day he opens the store he will have your brand of goat cheese in the kitchen.

You keep contact with Herbert and he keeps doing everything you want and confirming that he wants no other brand, that your brand had sold him from the very beginning. Then about a week before the restaurant opens, Herbert tells you "I am still buying your brand, I think your brand is the best and want to serve it. I am going to have lunch with the salesman from a different brand because we have been friends since we were kids and I want to spend an afternoon with them catching up." So you tell Herbert that you don't want him to meet the other salesman, in fact you are still upset at one of the guys from the other brand because you tried to get him to be a junior salesman. Herbert says "I am still with you, I am not changing cheese distributors. I am just having lunch with a friend that someone else is willing to pay for."

Herbert wants to convince you of the fact that he is committed to buying your cheese so much, that he puts his financial backer Fredrick in touch with you, Fredrick tells you "Herbert is just having lunch with his friends, he and I are still buying your brand of cheese next week when we open."

As a salesman is your response "If you have lunch with the other cheese company, I won't sell you our cheese anymore."? To me, that hard sell message says that you aren't very secure in your brand of cheese. That dealing with you for the rest of the time my restaurant is open is going to be a rough time. To me it would say that you are telling me at 11:59 that I no longer have a distributor of my main ingredient.

I appreciate the time you took to write up that analogy, but frankly, it doesn't hold water. At the bare minimum (because I don't have the time to pick this apart in further detail).

1. You haven't assumed a limited resource for a surplus of buyers.

2. You haven't taken into account the implications of what happens if the buyer isn't telling the truth.

Coach McGuirk
01-29-2010, 09:25 AM
I agree with smokymountainrain.....Bronco comes across as small time. Disallowing someone from taking a free trip to another school? How insecure can you get?


I don't think so in this case. I think Bronco already had to tell another DL he didn't have a scholarship for him because he had promised them to other commits. Now one of those commits is shopping himself. So Bronco was suppose to say, "oh ok that is cool. I will just chill here and see if I get left holding a scholarship at the end of the day"? No, he said if you go, you don't seem committed, so I am going to go and fill this spot. He even could of said that he couldn't promise that the spot would be open, but we will never know as once again we will only hear this one side to the story.

I also find it quite laughable the extent that some pretty bright minds here are fully invested to one side of this story.

Surfah
01-29-2010, 09:27 AM
I also find it quite laughable the extent that some pretty bright minds here are fully invested to one side of this story.

I am sure there is more to the story. But at this point I am inclined to believe and trust in Bronco. His results to this point, as SU would say, speak volumes.

ReggaeCoug
01-29-2010, 09:27 AM
This is typical BYU fan bullshit. BYU would never suffer a decommit. It's got to be "Bronco pulled the scholie" (even though the writing was on the wall). Even when Utah basketball had the longest home winning streak in the nation I'd never have claimed the Huntsman Center was a bigger home court advantage than the Pit. But no, BYU fans have to have the toughest home court advantage, even this week when claiming that is counterproductive for their own team. If someone said UNLV has the best basketball tradition, I'd agree to disagree. If someone said Air Force has the most competitive undergraduate classes, I'd yield the point. I'd argue with you if you denied Utah is the best overall university in the conference academically, but that's about it. I'd probably make a case for Utah being the best overall DI tradition and program. But I wouldn't have to try to make Utah look invulnerable in every field.

Guess what. A decommit is not shameful! It means you're getting commits who are desireable.

BYU fans are such insecure assholes!



Wow you are an idiot. What part of the story didn't you get? "Kona prayed and received an answer that he wants to go to BYU. We are very committed to BYU." Does that sound like someone who was ready to decommitt? Talk about assholes. wow

cougjunkie
01-29-2010, 09:28 AM
Yep Texas told Ross Apo he had the weekend to decide or they were moving on that is why he committed to them so early.

I can see 100% why they do it. Signing day is February but that does not mean you have to wait until then to become committed to a team. These kids are recruiting from the time they are sophomores sometimes even freshman in high school. They have plenty of time to research, take official visits, etc.

A decommit has a huge domino effect, look at utah for example 7 decommits this year. Imagine they land 2 RBs that they were recruiting heavily. Both of them commit, at that time they are recruiting 3 other RBs. Utah says well we landed 2 we are set for this class. So they lay off the other 3, now they would be stupid to completely back off. But chances are the other 3 see the writing on the wall, they start looking at other options and Utah falls in to the background. A month before signing day one of your RB commits decides to go elsewhere. Now Utah has to go back to the original 3 who are now well aware that they were your second choice, or scramble to fill a need with guys that you were not completely sold on to begin with.

byu71
01-29-2010, 09:31 AM
Yep Texas told Ross Apo he had the weekend to decide or they were moving on that is why he committed to them so early.

I can see 100% why they do it. Signing day is February but that does not mean you have to wait until then to become committed to a team. These kids are recruiting from the time they are sophomores sometimes even freshman in high school. They have plenty of time to research, take official visits, etc.

A decommit has a huge domino effect, look at utah for example 7 decommits this year. Imagine they land 2 RBs that they were recruiting heavily. Both of them commit, at that time they are recruiting 3 other RBs. Utah says well we landed 2 we are set for this class. So they lay off the other 3, now they would be stupid to completely back off. But chances are the other 3 see the writing on the wall, they start looking at other options and Utah falls in to the background. A month before signing day one of your RB commits decides to go elsewhere. Now Utah has to go back to the original 3 who are now well aware that they were your second choice, or scramble to fill a need with guys that you were not completely sold on to begin with.

I am beginning to wonder if there wasn't a new wrinkle told Kona. Maybe a we need you to gray shirt or go on your mission first or not enroll until January. Knowing the feeding frenzy that would get started, I can understand why neither side would like to bring this up if it happened.

If that did happen though, I would look at Kona's position in an entirely new light.

HuskyFreeNorthwest
01-29-2010, 09:33 AM
1. You haven't assumed a limited resource for a surplus of buyers.

2. You haven't taken into account the implications of what happens if the buyer isn't telling the truth.

Are there are surplus of buyers that will be buying at the level of Herbert? Or are the other buyers companies that aren't very stable and won't pan out?

If someone is lying then that is a problem either way. I felt like putting his father/financial backer in touch to confirm his committment to buy is the most you can get at this point.

I realize there are more factors than what was in my hypothetical argument.

ReggaeCoug
01-29-2010, 09:33 AM
If what CJ said is true, it is truly a shame how Bronco has chosen to handle this situation. He comes off as a big time POS.


Is Kona worthy of being in the same sentence of Manti and Ricky? Those two are very high on the recruiting planes, but is Kona that high of a profile.

cougjunkie
01-29-2010, 09:34 AM
I am beginning to wonder if there wasn't a new wrinkle told Kona. Maybe a we need you to gray shirt or go on your mission first or not enroll until January. Knowing the feeding frenzy that would get started, I can understand why neither side would like to bring this up if it happened.

If that did happen though, I would look at Kona's position in an entirely new light.

Could be, rumor has it BYU found an open schollie for Heimuli somehow. Maybe that was by sending Kona on a mission first.

Surfah
01-29-2010, 09:34 AM
Is Kona worthy of being in the same sentence of Manti and Ricky? Those two are very high on the recruiting planes, but is Kona that high of a profile.

He will be once he commits to either ND or UW. :D

TripletDaddy
01-29-2010, 09:34 AM
I don't think so in this case. I think Bronco already had to tell another DL he didn't have a scholarship for him because he had promised them to other commits. Now one of those commits is shopping himself. So Bronco was suppose to say, "oh ok that is cool. I will just chill here and see if I get left holding a scholarship at the end of the day"? No, he said if you go, you don't seem committed, so I am going to go and fill this spot. He even could of said that he couldn't promise that the spot would be open, but we will never know as once again we will only hear this one side to the story.

I also find it quite laughable the extent that some pretty bright minds here are fully invested to one side of this story.

I understand that coaches don't LIKE for commits to trip elsewhere, so to that extent, I wouldn't expect a coach to think it "cool." Further, coaches get stuck with scholarships and stiffed out of commitments every single year. There is nothing unique about that.

Also, Junkie referenced Apo and Texas....Texas wanted him to commit, but did they tell him that once he committed, if he tripped elsewhere they would pull the scholarship? They might have, I don't know.

The problem here isn't in wanting to secure a commit....it is in forbidding the recruit from making any other visits post-commit. Why forbid it? If you receive an academic scholarship from BYU and you state your intent to attend the Y, do they threaten to pull everything off the table if you subsequently visit any other schools? Just the act of visiting another school makes you lose your scholarship?

It isn't a huge problem, either. I believer others here when they say that it is a common practice. But I do think it has a tinge of insecurity to it.

cougjunkie
01-29-2010, 09:40 AM
I understand that coaches don't LIKE for commits to trip elsewhere, so to that extent, I wouldn't expect a coach to think it "cool." Further, coaches get stuck with scholarships and stiffed out of commitments every single year. There is nothing unique about that.

Also, Junkie referenced Apo and Texas....Texas wanted him to commit, but did they tell him that once he committed, if he tripped elsewhere they would pull the scholarship? They might have, I don't know.

The problem here isn't in wanting to secure a commit....it is in forbidding the recruit from making any other visits post-commit. Why forbid it? If you receive an academic scholarship from BYU and you state your intent to attend the Y, do they threaten to pull everything off the table if you subsequently visit any other schools? Just the act of visiting another school makes you lose your scholarship?

It isn't a huge problem, either. I believer others here when they say that it is a common practice. But I do think it has a tinge of insecurity to it.

Actually Texas told Apo if he went to BYUs junior day they would pull his schollie. He went anyways.

Bronco has told all recruits to make sure you take all 5 visits before you commit, but after you commit its a done deal. I can see why a coach does not want a kid to take a visit at the 11th hour.

Goatnapper'96
01-29-2010, 09:40 AM
I understand that coaches don't LIKE for commits to trip elsewhere, so to that extent, I wouldn't expect a coach to think it "cool." Further, coaches get stuck with scholarships and stiffed out of commitments every single year. There is nothing unique about that.

Also, Junkie referenced Apo and Texas....Texas wanted him to commit, but did they tell him that once he committed, if he tripped elsewhere they would pull the scholarship? They might have, I don't know.

The problem here isn't in wanting to secure a commit....it is in forbidding the recruit from making any other visits post-commit. Why forbid it? If you receive an academic scholarship from BYU and you state your intent to attend the Y, do they threaten to pull everything off the table if you subsequently visit any other schools? Just the act of visiting another school makes you lose your scholarship?

It isn't a huge problem, either. I believer others here when they say that it is a common practice. But I do think it has a tinge of insecurity to it.

I agree with you in principle. I think coaches know how committed kids are and when signing day rolls around there are probably a couple of camps - kids we know are sending us their LOIs and kids we hope will send their LOIs. BYU was in this camp with Uona Kaveinga and clearly Bronco did not play hardball. Either Bronco's recruiting approach has changed, as a consequence of getting burned and development within his program or this is a bit of a unique year in that BYU has a scholarship crunch and Mendenhall is playing hardball with Kona because he feels that he could absorb the loss.

My point is that I am not convinced that it is probably more an approach dictated by current circumstances than it is by philosophy. I am sure a guy like Mendenhall who despises the whole recruiting process, and by consequence his minions in the BYU following media, will play up his hardassness, but the reality is that I doubt he is a hardass like this unless he believes he can afford to be.

ReggaeCoug
01-29-2010, 09:41 AM
He will be once he commits to either ND or UW. :D


Haha.. good point.

Surfah
01-29-2010, 09:42 AM
But I do think it has a tinge of insecurity to it.

I think being an SC fan is impacting your opinion on this. Routinely they lose several huge commits. But like you said earlier, on signing day they also land huge commits. Your entire recruiting class is filled with Kona Schwenke's. But when you only have one, two or three of those in your class it's a different recruiting game.

As Junkie pointed out last week Heimuli was told he dragged his feet for far too long and BYU no longer has a schollie available for him. Now, one of the guys who has that unavailable schollie is suddenly tripping all over the place in the last weekend of recruiting? Why didn't he trip earlier? He committed as a junior right? These things happen. I get that. The timing of this just really sucks for BYU.

Coach McGuirk
01-29-2010, 09:42 AM
I understand that coaches don't LIKE for commits to trip elsewhere, so to that extent, I wouldn't expect a coach to think it "cool." Further, coaches get stuck with scholarships and stiffed out of commitments every single year. There is nothing unique about that.

Also, Junkie referenced Apo and Texas....Texas wanted him to commit, but did they tell him that once he committed, if he tripped elsewhere they would pull the scholarship? They might have, I don't know.

The problem here isn't in wanting to secure a commit....it is in forbidding the recruit from making any other visits post-commit. Why forbid it? If you receive an academic scholarship from BYU and you state your intent to attend the Y, do they threaten to pull everything off the table if you subsequently visit any other schools? Just the act of visiting another school makes you lose your scholarship?

It isn't a huge problem, either. I believer others here when they say that it is a common practice. But I do think it has a tinge of insecurity to it.


Again, this late in the game, I am fine with it. Were this earlier in the recruiting process, I wouldn't agree with Bronco's approach, regardless of commitment.

ReggaeCoug
01-29-2010, 09:43 AM
I am beginning to wonder if there wasn't a new wrinkle told Kona. Maybe a we need you to gray shirt or go on your mission first or not enroll until January. Knowing the feeding frenzy that would get started, I can understand why neither side would like to bring this up if it happened.

If that did happen though, I would look at Kona's position in an entirely new light.



Might be more to the story. But honestly it doesn't seem like McKay has a problem throwing BYU under the bus. So if this was something BYU said to them, I believe he would have used it to make him and Kona look even more like the victims.

byu71
01-29-2010, 09:44 AM
Actually Texas told Apo if he went to BYUs junior day they would pull his schollie. He went anyways.

Bronco has told all recruits to make sure you take all 5 visits before you commit, but after you commit its a done deal. I can see why a coach does not want a kid to take a visit at the 11th hour.

Yet, I thought I read where Bronco did not threaten to pull Phillips schollie if he went on the trip to Cinn. He did tell him the right thing to do would be to not go on the trip, but did not threaten to pull the schollie. Phillips didn't even hear what happened to Kona prior to making his decision not to go. Of course we will never know the real story on this thing.

Some people have said they know the real story, but just can't say. I love those kind of posters.

By the way, did I ever tell you I know the real story behind the JFK assination, but can't tell it until 2049.

byu71
01-29-2010, 09:45 AM
Might be more to the story. But honestly it doesn't seem like McKay has a problem throwing BYU under the bus. So if this was something BYU said to them, I believe he would have used it to make him and Kona look even more like the victims.

IF and this is a monumental if, Bronco changed the gameplan on my kid or made it tougher than just coming to school on his scholarship, I would throw BYU under the bus. My kid is far more important than BYU.

Surfah
01-29-2010, 09:45 AM
Might be more to the story. But honestly it doesn't seem like McKay has a problem throwing BYU under the bus. So if this was something BYU said to them, I believe he would have used it to make him and Kona look even more like the victims.

McKay throwing out the 'dark, ugly side of BYU' was really poor. He mustn't know about the electro-shock therapy to cure the gay. :D

jay santos
01-29-2010, 09:49 AM
I move Bronco implements a new policy. Appoint someone to be the Kahuku/Hawaii arbitrage. Anae, Kaufusi, or Doman. Somebody smoothe that gets along with the Poly's and can walk a tight rope. Don't let Bronco talk to any recruits, families, or high school coaches from Hawaii. Chow pissed off that group in the 90's and now Bronco seems to be doing it.

Art Vandelay
01-29-2010, 09:50 AM
I understand that coaches don't LIKE for commits to trip elsewhere, so to that extent, I wouldn't expect a coach to think it "cool." Further, coaches get stuck with scholarships and stiffed out of commitments every single year. There is nothing unique about that.

Also, Junkie referenced Apo and Texas....Texas wanted him to commit, but did they tell him that once he committed, if he tripped elsewhere they would pull the scholarship? They might have, I don't know.

The problem here isn't in wanting to secure a commit....it is in forbidding the recruit from making any other visits post-commit. Why forbid it? If you receive an academic scholarship from BYU and you state your intent to attend the Y, do they threaten to pull everything off the table if you subsequently visit any other schools? Just the act of visiting another school makes you lose your scholarship?

It isn't a huge problem, either. I believer others here when they say that it is a common practice. But I do think it has a tinge of insecurity to it.

As has been mentioned several times above, I think the issue is the timing. I will share a personal example, that likely is unrelated, but oh well. My wife and i dated 16 months before we got engaged and almost 2 years before we were married. At the 14 month mark "her missionary" returned from wherever that loser unfaithfully served ;) She wanted to go out with him, to deal with a few unresolved issues she had and primarily to make sure she didn't have any feelings she would always wonder "what if...". I wasn't particularly happy with the situation, but I understood her feelings so I dealt with it Obviously, everything worked out fine for me. Now if the same scenario was to occur 5 days before our wedding, I think I would have A LOT more trouble being the supportive boyfriend. I can't speak for others, and maybe it would have been dumb, but I'm pretty sure I would have issued the ultimatum, him or me, if I knew my family and friends were already in route to see the wedding.

ReggaeCoug
01-29-2010, 09:51 AM
IF and this is a monumental if, Bronco changed the gameplan on my kid or made it tougher than just coming to school on his scholarship, I would throw BYU under the bus. My kid is far more important than BYU.


Yep I agree. I really think if there was more to the story from BYU's side, McKay would not be holding back. And neither would I, like you said, my kids are way more important than BYU.

Of course having a ND schollie offer on the table makes my bark sound much louder too....;)

Katy Lied
01-29-2010, 09:52 AM
Bronco comes across as small time. Disallowing someone from taking a free trip to another school? How insecure can you get?

I think you have no idea what is going on in this situation. And you have no idea about what goes on behind the scenes in recruiting in general.


If this is how it went down, then I think Kona made the right choice. If you're a big time athlete with a lot of people courting you, a big part of the equation is which coach believes in you the most. Entering into a relationship with a coach that you have friction with, when you have other options, is not a good decision.

Sure, and athletes have NEVER decommitted, which is why every other coach besides Bronco holds open ended scholarships for every kid they recruit.



As a salesman is your response "If you have lunch with the other cheese company, I won't sell you our cheese anymore."? To me, that hard sell message says that you aren't very secure in your brand of cheese. That dealing with you for the rest of the time my restaurant is open is going to be a rough time. To me it would say that you are telling me at 11:59 that I no longer have a distributor of my main ingredient.

Why do you think ND is tripping all these kids at 11:59? They know it is an effective tool to get the kids to decommit. It works, so kids who trip at the last minute even though they have already committed are on perilous grounds.


I think this statement has some backing to it though. I have heard for awhile that Kona might have WoW issues. I don't agree with saying that though.

Absolutely not. Stop the whispering campaign. Kona is a good kid.


Why forbid it? If you receive an academic scholarship from BYU and you state your intent to attend the Y, do they threaten to pull everything off the table if you subsequently visit any other schools? Just the act of visiting another school makes you lose your scholarship?

Yes, a trip at the last minute when BYU has all of its limited scholarships sewn up, with no room to offer someone else. Why didnt Kona trip 3 months ago? Why didnt ND invite him 3 months ago? Because ND knows that the last minute trip is very effective at getting players to change their minds.

Blueintheface
01-29-2010, 09:53 AM
Interesting that the guys on 1280 the zone here in SLC just asked Boylen about this situation (didn't give details and Boylen didn't know what the question was in reference to) and he gave THE EXACT SAME ANSWER AS BRONCO. In fact Boylen didn't let them finish the question. He simply said "He's not coming to Utah." In so many words he said that a young man's verbal commitment is concrete and if a kid wants to waste my time and the time of the other University just so he can take a free trip than I question the way this kid was raised. He also said he doesn't recruit kids that have already committed. Let the great spin machine start for Ute fans.

It will be up on their website shortly if it isn't already.

http://www.1280thezone.com/

byu71
01-29-2010, 09:53 AM
Yep I agree. I really think if there was more to the story from BYU's side, McKay would not be holding back. And neither would I, like you said, my kids are way more important than BYU.

Of course having a ND schollie offer on the table makes my bark sound much louder too....;)

Yep, and I want to make it perfectly clear. Based on what I have heard so far, I have no problem with what Bronco has done.

Coach McGuirk
01-29-2010, 09:58 AM
Absolutely not. Stop the whispering campaign. Kona is a good kid.



So you really believe Bronco would just say that out of the blue? I am not judging the kid. I had a WoW problem back in the day, and I don't or didn't think of myself as a bad kid. Either Bronco had a reason for saying something like that, or he really never said it in the first place and McKay is looking for dirt to throw.


dude stop projecting already.

Surfah
01-29-2010, 10:00 AM
Why do you think ND is tripping all these kids at 11:59? They know it is an effective tool to get the kids to decommit. It works, so kids who trip at the last minute even though they have already committed are on perilous grounds.

ND is tripping a ton of kids this weekend. I read they have 10 scholarships available still.

Katy Lied
01-29-2010, 10:00 AM
I move Bronco implements a new policy. Appoint someone to be the Kahuku/Hawaii arbitrage. Anae, Kaufusi, or Doman. Somebody smoothe that gets along with the Poly's and can walk a tight rope. Don't let Bronco talk to any recruits, families, or high school coaches from Hawaii. Chow pissed off that group in the 90's and now Bronco seems to be doing it.

Kahuku has a problem with kids who decommit. BYU is not the only school who suffers because of this. Utah, Hawaii, and other longtime relationships are suffering right now.

This reputation that Kahuku is developing is hurting Kahuku as well. Right now, there is a low-star (no star?) athlete who is being recruited by Weber State. He has no other options, and is praying for a scholarship from Weber. Weber might not be a powerhouse, but they have a few schollies to give, and they have to husband what they have. If Kahuku has a reputation for decommitting, what kind of chance is the Weber coach going to take on this kid? It's a poor community-The school wants to get as many scholarships as possible for all of their athletes, not just the high profile ones.

TripletDaddy
01-29-2010, 10:02 AM
As has been mentioned several times above, I think the issue is the timing. I will share a personal example, that likely is unrelated, but oh well. My wife and i dated 16 months before we got engaged and almost 2 years before we were married. At the 14 month mark "her missionary" returned from wherever that loser unfaithfully served ;) She wanted to go out with him, to deal with a few unresolved issues she had and primarily to make sure she didn't have any feelings she would always wonder "what if...". I wasn't particularly happy with the situation, but I understood her feelings so I dealt with it Obviously, everything worked out fine for me. Now if the same scenario was to occur 5 days before our wedding, I think I would have A LOT more trouble being the supportive boyfriend. I can't speak for others, and maybe it would have been dumb, but I'm pretty sure I would have issued the ultimatum, him or me, if I knew my family and friends were already in route to see the wedding.

I see from a timing perspective. That is a fair point.

So if it is a simply timing issue, you seem to be in agreement that Bronco would NOT pull a scholarship if a commit tripped elsewhere a month ago?

byu71
01-29-2010, 10:02 AM
Absolutely not. Stop the whispering campaign. Kona is a good kid.



So you really believe Bronco would just say that out of the blue? I am not judging the kid. I had a WoW problem back in the day, and I don't or didn't think of myself as a bad kid. Either Bronco had a reason for saying something like that, or he really never said it in the first place and McKay is looking for dirt to throw.

You really had a WOW issue and didn't think of yourself as a bad kid? What kind of parenting did you have. Didn't you ever go to church.:)

Surfah
01-29-2010, 10:02 AM
Kahuku has a problem with kids who decommit. BYU is not the only school who suffers because of this. Utah, Hawaii, and other longtime relationships are suffering right now.

This reputation that Kahuku is developing is hurting Kahuku as well. Right now, there is a low-star (no star?) athlete who is being recruited by Weber State. He has no other options, and is praying for a scholarship from Weber. Weber might not be a powerhouse, but they have a few schollies to give, and they have to husband what they have. If Kahuku has a reputation for decommitting, what kind of chance is the Weber coach going to take on this kid? It's a poor community-The school wants to get as many scholarships as possible for all of their athletes, not just the high profile ones.

How much of this is Torres' fault? Or does he not have anything to do with it?

cougjunkie
01-29-2010, 10:03 AM
Kahuku has a problem with kids who decommit. BYU is not the only school who suffers because of this. Utah, Hawaii, and other longtime relationships are suffering right now.

This reputation that Kahuku is developing is hurting Kahuku as well. Right now, there is a low-star (no star?) athlete who is being recruited by Weber State. He has no other options, and is praying for a scholarship from Weber. Weber might not be a powerhouse, but they have a few schollies to give, and they have to husband what they have. If Kahuku has a reputation for decommitting, what kind of chance is the Weber coach going to take on this kid? It's a poor community-The school wants to get as many scholarships as possible for all of their athletes, not just the high profile ones.

Torres seems to have an axe to grind with both BYU and Utah. Its sad to watch. However him and Joe Seumalo (Oregon States D-line coach) are best friends.

TripletDaddy
01-29-2010, 10:03 AM
I think you have no idea what is going on in this situation. And you have no idea about what goes on behind the scenes in recruiting in general.

lol. this coming from someone with a red SC hoodie.

How many of your predictions have been accurate?

Goatnapper'96
01-29-2010, 10:03 AM
Kahuku has a problem with kids who decommit. BYU is not the only school who suffers because of this. Utah, Hawaii, and other longtime relationships are suffering right now.

This reputation that Kahuku is developing is hurting Kahuku as well. Right now, there is a low-star (no star?) athlete who is being recruited by Weber State. He has no other options, and is praying for a scholarship from Weber. Weber might not be a powerhouse, but they have a few schollies to give, and they have to husband what they have. If Kahuku has a reputation for decommitting, what kind of chance is the Weber coach going to take on this kid? It's a poor community-The school wants to get as many scholarships as possible for all of their athletes, not just the high profile ones.

The high school might not be sending as many current studs to BYU as years past, but the playing surface will always be holy ground to me!

If I am sucking down some garlic shrimp from Giovanni's, all the better! MUH-HALL-FREAKING-OH!

byu71
01-29-2010, 10:03 AM
Kahuku has a problem with kids who decommit. BYU is not the only school who suffers because of this. Utah, Hawaii, and other longtime relationships are suffering right now.

This reputation that Kahuku is developing is hurting Kahuku as well. Right now, there is a low-star (no star?) athlete who is being recruited by Weber State. He has no other options, and is praying for a scholarship from Weber. Weber might not be a powerhouse, but they have a few schollies to give, and they have to husband what they have. If Kahuku has a reputation for decommitting, what kind of chance is the Weber coach going to take on this kid? It's a poor community-The school wants to get as many scholarships as possible for all of their athletes, not just the high profile ones.

If they have a higher than average number of decommits, do you have any theory as to the reason for this.

Surfah
01-29-2010, 10:05 AM
Check my Cougarboard Friends Only post for some of the background on the Kona story. I'll put it up there in 10 minutes.

Can I be your Cougarboard Friend?

Coach McGuirk
01-29-2010, 10:05 AM
Check my Cougarboard Friends Only post for some of the background on the Kona story. I'll put it up there in 10 minutes.


How about the SE? Too leaky?

cougjunkie
01-29-2010, 10:05 AM
Can I be your Cougarboard Friend?

LOL me too.

jay santos
01-29-2010, 10:08 AM
Kahuku has a problem with kids who decommit. BYU is not the only school who suffers because of this. Utah, Hawaii, and other longtime relationships are suffering right now.

This reputation that Kahuku is developing is hurting Kahuku as well. Right now, there is a low-star (no star?) athlete who is being recruited by Weber State. He has no other options, and is praying for a scholarship from Weber. Weber might not be a powerhouse, but they have a few schollies to give, and they have to husband what they have. If Kahuku has a reputation for decommitting, what kind of chance is the Weber coach going to take on this kid? It's a poor community-The school wants to get as many scholarships as possible for all of their athletes, not just the high profile ones.

It doesn't matter if Kahuku's right or wrong. BYU needs Kahuku recruits to be the best it can be. So it's BYU's job to figure out how to make it work. Giving them the finger doesn't seem to have worked in the past.

TripletDaddy
01-29-2010, 10:11 AM
It doesn't matter if Kahuku's right or wrong. BYU needs Kahuku recruits to be the best it can be. So it's BYU's job to figure out how to make it work. Giving them the finger doesn't seem to have worked in the past.

word. what does it matter if there is inside scoop this time? there has been inside scoop on every Kahuku failure of the past several seasons. The public scoop is that BYU keeps losing these kids. why is that?

ReggaeCoug
01-29-2010, 10:11 AM
Check my Cougarboard Friends Only post for some of the background on the Kona story. I'll put it up there in 10 minutes.

I need to be your friend in the first place to see it..

TheBYUGuy
01-29-2010, 10:11 AM
Can I be your Cougarboard Friend?

No kidding.

Surfah
01-29-2010, 10:12 AM
word. what does it matter if there is inside scoop this time? there has been inside scoop on every Kahuku failure of the past several seasons. The public scoop is that BYU keeps losing these kids. why is that?

Brother Francisco is playing in the Super Bowl. And he's a Red Raider for life.

ReggaeCoug
01-29-2010, 10:12 AM
dude stop projecting already.



Dude, lighten up.... Its a message board for crying out loud. Nobodys knows the real truth, its all projecting at this point.

But thanks...

cougjunkie
01-29-2010, 10:12 AM
word. what does it matter if there is inside scoop this time? there has been inside scoop on every Kahuku failure of the past several seasons. The public scoop is that BYU keeps losing these kids. why is that?

Because Polys hate Steve Kaufusi. He is the Poly version of Uncle Tom.

Katy Lied
01-29-2010, 10:13 AM
If they have a higher than average number of decommits, do you have any theory as to the reason for this.

I do. I think its the natural cycle of things. I think that because Hawaii and Utah and BYU have recruited so long there, the kids have become somewhat disenchanted with these usual suitors. They want something new, they want to go to new places, far away. I dont blame them. I am exactly the same way.

So when someone goes to Tenessee, or USC, or ND, that is new and exciting. The non-traditional pipeline schools only offer to the best talent, because they dont normally recruit in Hawaii, or Samoa, and it works out well for them, so they now look at Kahuku for more recruits. So the first kid makes a break for say, Tennessee, and he does well, and Tennessee will now start recruiting Kahuku for a few more athletes, until they discover that the athletes from Hawaii are not quite as good as the first one, and then they'll stop. In the mean time, the players from there think that no harm is made from decommitting because they see the ones who decommitted from Utah last year last year land on their feet at other schools.

After a while, less players go to Hawaii, or BYU, and then HI and BYU become desirable again, because no one is getting schollies there anymore. Its just cycles.

I know what you're really asking is whether Polys are less honest in their committments than other races. That is a hard question. It depends. Another post.

il Padrino Ute
01-29-2010, 10:14 AM
:confused:

Who else would it be? Not BYU.

Air Force Academy.

Katy Lied
01-29-2010, 10:17 AM
lol. this coming from someone with a red SC hoodie.

How many of your predictions have been accurate?

I will give you that. I know absolutely nothing about USC's recruiting. And although I love watching them I know very little about their players and coaches.

Coach McGuirk
01-29-2010, 10:18 AM
Dude, lighten up.... Its a message board for crying out loud. Nobodys knows the real truth, its all projecting at this point.

But thanks...


What I will ask again is that you stop projecting your word of wisdom problems on the kid. The end. After this, you can continue to be a dick hole if you wish.

ReggaeCoug
01-29-2010, 10:20 AM
What I will ask again is that you stop projecting your word of wisdom problems on the kid. The end. After this, you can continue to be a dick hole if you wish.

Wow how did I project what I did 10 years ago on this kid? Sounds like you are being the over sensitive little B*#&*... Just sayin

Hot Lunch
01-29-2010, 10:21 AM
Dude, lighten up.... Its a message board for crying out loud. Nobodys knows the real truth, its all projecting at this point.

But thanks...

And this is what is wrong with message boards. It is whispering and projecting from people that don't know dick about what is really going on.

Coach McGuirk
01-29-2010, 10:22 AM
Wow how did I project what I did 10 years ago on this kid? Sounds like you are being the over sensitive little B*#&*... Just sayin

That's fine if you can't understand the implication in your own post. We shall be great friends!

Clark Addison
01-29-2010, 10:23 AM
Can I be your Cougarboard Friend?

Seconded. Or fifthed.

Hot Lunch
01-29-2010, 10:24 AM
Wow how did I project what I did 10 years ago on this kid? Sounds like you are being the over sensitive little B*#&*... Just sayin

He isn't being a sensitive B*&^%. He just has respect for the kid to not throw him under the bus with stupid message board rumors. There are certain asshats that don't respect the kid enough that are.

MarkGrace
01-29-2010, 10:24 AM
If they have a higher than average number of decommits, do you have any theory as to the reason for this.

Katy's response was much more elegant and PC than mine would have been. I would have said something along the lines of "because the majority of people living there are flakes."

ReggaeCoug
01-29-2010, 10:24 AM
That's fine if you can't understand the implication in your own post. We shall be great friends!

Nah not interested in being great friends.

cruelute
01-29-2010, 10:25 AM
Bronco is free to set any ground rules he chooses, and he can enforce them in any way he desires.

His recruits, on the other hand, have only one choice: submit to him (or the coach at any other university) or not.

Bronco makes seven figures annually, while the kids who actually earn his salary for him get an education that all too often lands them in the delivery room at R.C. Willey.

So while I defend his right to demand 100% commitment, does that mean he'll never yank a scholarship from an athlete, or promise to stay for the entire career of the athlete? Of course not. It's a non-reciprocal relationship.

One of the major perks of being a college athlete is the glamour. The trips, the ass kissing, the drooling over your over-fed ass on internet sports sites etc.

Once you choose a university, you lose chance to be wined and dined. Can you blame an 18 year old kid for liking the attention?

The disparity between the rights of the athletes vs the rights of the coaches, and the inequity in compensation related to the other inequities, is the ugly underbelly of college sports.

So, if it were up to me, I would say let the kids have their moment in the sun. Most of them are one knee injury away from being nobodies.

Coach McGuirk
01-29-2010, 10:25 AM
Nah not interested in being great friends.


Sarcasm ReggaeLingo, catch the wave!

PaloAltoCougar
01-29-2010, 10:26 AM
I need to be your friend in the first place to see it..

As KL's self-appointed attorney, I must advise you that the path to KL friendship, while worth taking, is long and arduous. There are a number of rules and conditions. For example, always identify, and never post again, self-conflicting statements like the following:


I think this statement has some backing to it though. I have heard for awhile that Kona might have WoW issues. I don't agree with saying that though.

If you don't agree with saying that, don't.

TheBYUGuy
01-29-2010, 10:26 AM
Nah not interested in being great friends.

Welcome, Johnny Lingo v5.0! Johnny 5 is alive!

ReggaeCoug
01-29-2010, 10:27 AM
He isn't being a sensitive B*&^%. He just has respect for the kid to not throw him under the bus with stupid message board rumors. There are certain asshats that don't respect the kid enough that are.

WTF did I say that was disrespecting Kona? Holy Hell...

I have talked to a few people for months now that have said something similar. Than when I heard that quote from his dad it made me think. Even if the damn kid was a junky, I wouldn't think he was a bad kid. I never implied he was a bad kid at all, ever. You guys seem to like putting words in peoples mouths.

ReggaeCoug
01-29-2010, 10:29 AM
Sarcasm ReggaeLingo, catch the wave!

So off of 3 posts or so you gonna call me Lingo... ouch that hurts..

So quick to judge around here. I will delete what I have said about Kona. I can see it is getting too many people all butt hurt. It was not my intentions to paint the kid in a bad picture.

Art Vandelay
01-29-2010, 10:31 AM
I see from a timing perspective. That is a fair point.

So if it is a simply timing issue, you seem to be in agreement that Bronco would NOT pull a scholarship if a commit tripped elsewhere a month ago?

I have no idea what Bronco would do or has done in the past. As I have mentioned before, I'm a little creeped out by those who follow recruiting too closely. Personally, I hope he wouldn't be pulling the scholarship (that is different than "pulling the goalie" right?) in this same situation 4 weeks ago, but I feel he is justified with the circumstances being what they are at this time.

HBCoug
01-29-2010, 10:32 AM
What are these "friends" to which people keep referring? :ashamed:

Surfah
01-29-2010, 10:43 AM
Katy's response was much more elegant and PC than mine would have been. I would have said something along the lines of "because the majority of people living there are flakes."

Yeah I bit my tongue from answering that question. But I agree with you.

SeattleUte
01-29-2010, 10:44 AM
Interesting that the guys on 1280 the zone here in SLC just asked Boylen about this situation (didn't give details and Boylen didn't know what the question was in reference to) and he gave THE EXACT SAME ANSWER AS BRONCO. In fact Boylen didn't let them finish the question. He simply said "He's not coming to Utah." In so many words he said that a young man's verbal commitment is concrete and if a kid wants to waste my time and the time of the other University just so he can take a free trip than I question the way this kid was raised. He also said he doesn't recruit kids that have already committed. Let the great spin machine start for Ute fans.

It will be up on their website shortly if it isn't already.

http://www.1280thezone.com/

Like I said. Kona decommitted, in effect. Bronco knew it was going to happen and made a preemptive strike. Suck up and admit it!

MarkGrace
01-29-2010, 10:44 AM
Kahuku has a problem with kids who decommit. BYU is not the only school who suffers because of this. Utah, Hawaii, and other longtime relationships are suffering right now.

This reputation that Kahuku is developing is hurting Kahuku as well. Right now, there is a low-star (no star?) athlete who is being recruited by Weber State. He has no other options, and is praying for a scholarship from Weber. Weber might not be a powerhouse, but they have a few schollies to give, and they have to husband what they have. If Kahuku has a reputation for decommitting, what kind of chance is the Weber coach going to take on this kid? It's a poor community-The school wants to get as many scholarships as possible for all of their athletes, not just the high profile ones.

Hey, let me know what happens with this kid. In year's past I may have been able to help as one of their defensive coaches (and main recruiter for Hawai'i) was a good family friend of ours. but he's since taken a job at Utah State. If nothing else, let me know if he ends up at Weber. My parents/family are big supporters of Weber athletics and go out of their way to make sure they know and support the local kids.

TripletDaddy
01-29-2010, 10:48 AM
I have no idea what Bronco would do or has done in the past. As I have mentioned before, I'm a little creeped out by those who follow recruiting too closely. Personally, I hope he wouldn't be pulling the scholarship (that is different than "pulling the goalie" right?) in this same situation 4 weeks ago, but I feel he is justified with the circumstances being what they are at this time.

One of the reasons why folks follow the recruiting trail.....it is the closest thing you have to actual football games. For me, it is an excuse to keep thinking and talking about college football. Also, what happens on the trail spills over into the regular season...coaches sniping recruits from other schools, coaches getting into trouble, players de-comitting, etc...there is a lot of good backstory in the off-season that helps shape regular season storylines.

MarkGrace
01-29-2010, 10:51 AM
Because Polys hate Steve Kaufusi. He is the Poly version of Uncle Tom.

I know nothing about Kaufusi and his reputation, but I agree with Katy's post that the problems at Kahuku are more internal than they are related to BYU.

I realize that my last couple of comments are maybe getting a bit, um, questionable, and I worry about going too far here, but I was talking to my dad last night on the phone about this and when it comes right down to it the kids from Kahuku are not exactly an impressive lot. I know that is kind of a harsh and stereotypical comment to make, but on the whole, that school and the quality of kids it turns out leaves much to be desired.

SCcoug
01-29-2010, 10:51 AM
One of the reasons why folks follow the recruiting trail.....it is the closest thing you have to actual football games. For me, it is an excuse to keep thinking and talking about college football. Also, what happens on the trail spills over into the regular season...coaches sniping recruits from other schools, coaches getting into trouble, players de-comitting, etc...there is a lot of good backstory in the off-season that helps shape regular season storylines.

My wife calls it man-gossip and will occasionally ask what the latest man-gossip is.

Surfah
01-29-2010, 10:51 AM
One of the reasons why folks follow the recruiting trail.....it is the closest thing you have to actual football games. For me, it is an excuse to keep thinking and talking about college football. Also, what happens on the trail spills over into the regular season...coaches sniping recruits from other schools, coaches getting into trouble, players de-comitting, etc...there is a lot of good backstory in the off-season that helps shape regular season storylines.

Agreed. Besides, it's always fun to say 'scoreboard' in February when you haven't said it since November.

cowboy
01-29-2010, 10:51 AM
As KL's self-appointed attorney, I must advise you that the path to KL friendship, while worth taking, is long and arduous. There are a number of rules and conditions...

I suspect that KL's friendship is reserved for humble, yet highly intelligent folks who have a razor sharp wit and look great in spandex. Since it appears that there is sudden interest in being friends with Katylied, I suggest that PAC receive all friendship applications (including spandex pics,) and a nominating committee commence to review the applications and submit recommendations to Katy for final approval.

Note to PAC: I will personally have a live steer of our best variety and finest finish shipped to your local butcher if you float me a favor here.

Surfah
01-29-2010, 10:53 AM
I suspect that KL's friendship is reserved for humble, yet highly intelligent folks who have a wit and look great in spandex. Since it appears that there is sudden interest in being friends with Katylied, I suggest that PAC receive all friendship applications (including spandex pics,) and a nominating committee commence to review the applications and submit recommendations to Katy for final approval.

Note to PAC: I will personally have a live steer of our best variety and finest finish shipped to your local butcher if you float me a favor here.

I can't think of any lists that would receive me with a picture of me in spandex.

Jeff Lebowski
01-29-2010, 10:56 AM
This thread confirms my analysis that KL may be the smartest person here. One little sentence and look at all of the people begging to be her friend.

Jarid in Cedar
01-29-2010, 10:58 AM
This thread confirms my analysis that KL may be the smartest person here. One little sentence and look at all of the people begging to be her friend.

Her signature line seems very appropriate right now.

Katy Lied
01-29-2010, 11:01 AM
This thread confirms my analysis that KL may be the smartest person here. One little sentence and look at all of the people begging to be her friend.

I aspire to have as many friends as Rosebud does.

I also apologize for snapping at DDD. My nephew gets home in 2 weeks and after working his rear end off his freshman year (but not really making a game impact) and serving a mission honorably, the family is worried about there not being a scholarship for him. So I get impatient when kids treat these precious scholarships so cavalierly and commend Bronco for making them responsible.

Art Vandelay
01-29-2010, 11:01 AM
I know nothing about Kaufusi and his reputation, but I agree with Katy's post that the problems at Kahuku are more internal than they are related to BYU.

I realize that my last couple of comments are maybe getting a bit, um, questionable, and I worry about going too far here, but I was talking to my dad last night on the phone about this and when it comes right down to it the kids from Kahuku are not exactly an impressive lot. I know that is kind of a harsh and stereotypical comment to make, but on the whole, that school and the quality of kids it turns out leaves much to be desired.

Are you from the islands Gracie? I assumed you were a either a native Washingtonian or Utite?

HuskyFreeNorthwest
01-29-2010, 11:06 AM
If it isn't too late, can I be Katy's CB friend also?

Coach McGuirk
01-29-2010, 11:17 AM
If it isn't too late, can I be Katy's CB friend also?


It didn't work out for me yet.

MarkGrace
01-29-2010, 11:23 AM
Are you from the islands Gracie? I assumed you were a either a native Washingtonian or Utite?

No, my mom is, and we did live there for a time (my two siblings next closest in age were born there). All my extended family on her side is still there (including my auntie who went to Kahuku :)).

jay santos
01-29-2010, 11:27 AM
Example of someone who doesn't get it.

http://www.cougarboard.com/noframes/message.html?id=5215583

Who are they going to give his scholarship to? The OL from Washington whose only D1 offer was BYU?

Blueintheface
01-29-2010, 11:28 AM
Like I said. Kona decommitted, in effect. Bronco knew it was going to happen and made a preemptive strike. Suck up and admit it!

Admit what? Something that neither you nor I could possibly know? You are always so certain of things yet have no basis for your arguments. I would hate to have you as my representation.

byu71
01-29-2010, 11:29 AM
I know what you're really asking is whether Polys are less honest in their committments than other races. That is a hard question. It depends. Another post.

Honestly, I am not asking that. If I have a stereotype of Poly's it would be they love their families very much and love the church. Sometimes perhaps when they are on their own to make a big decision that love prevents them from expressing the inner feelings. Like, I want some freedom. They don't want to dissapoint family and members. It has to be quite a conflict.

I think they are expected to show up at BYU and if someone mentions they felt the spirit, they need to respond in kind. It is their duty.

Ngata did the dance. I think he was caught up in the moment. I have been to pentacostal church meeting where I see the same thing.

To each their own. Some people love the prayers were answered, special feeling, football is number 5 stuff when they read about these kids. I like to read they think BYU can be good and why as a football player they will help make BYU good. Those are the kids I think will sign for sure LOI day.

TripletDaddy
01-29-2010, 11:32 AM
I aspire to have as many friends as Rosebud does.

I also apologize for snapping at DDD. My nephew gets home in 2 weeks and after working his rear end off his freshman year (but not really making a game impact) and serving a mission honorably, the family is worried about there not being a scholarship for him. So I get impatient when kids treat these precious scholarships so cavalierly and commend Bronco for making them responsible.

That is nice, but honestly you owe me no apology. You were just speakin' your mind. Plus, who amongst us hasn't told Triplet to be quiet?

If you want to read some cruel comments directed my way, you need to bone up on history and become a student of SeattleUte's posts. Also, YOhio.

byu71
01-29-2010, 11:32 AM
So off of 3 posts or so you gonna call me Lingo... ouch that hurts..

So quick to judge around here. I will delete what I have said about Kona. I can see it is getting too many people all butt hurt. It was not my intentions to paint the kid in a bad picture.

For the most part they are a bunch of Obama flaming liberals. They talk bipartisanship, but if you don't agree with them they will accuse you of not wanting to work with them on a bipartisan basis. Don't get your feelings hurt like Lingo. They will CRUSH you.

HBCoug
01-29-2010, 11:44 AM
That is nice, but honestly you owe me no apology. You were just speakin' your mind. Plus, who amongst us hasn't told Triplet to be quiet?


I thought you were told to shut up...

ReggaeCoug
01-29-2010, 11:44 AM
For the most part they are a bunch of Obama flaming liberals. They talk bipartisanship, but if you don't agree with them they will accuse you of not wanting to work with them on a bipartisan basis. Don't get your feelings hurt like Lingo. They will CRUSH you.


LOL... I don't understand why anyone would get their feelings hurt over a few dipsticks on a message board. Its more irritating than anything. I just don't like people to put words in my mouth, especially when they try to say I am throwing a kid under the bus. That gets under my skin a bit.

TripletDaddy
01-29-2010, 11:48 AM
I thought you were told to shut up...

CUF Takes 6th Street: Uninvite List

1. Tone Loc
2. exUte
3. dabrockster (re-invited Jan 24, 2010)
4. whatshappeningman

CUF Takes 6th Street: Warning List
1. nikuman
2. HBCoug

PaloAltoCougar
01-29-2010, 11:51 AM
I suspect that KL's friendship is reserved for humble, yet highly intelligent folks who have a razor sharp wit and look great in spandex. Since it appears that there is sudden interest in being friends with Katylied, I suggest that PAC receive all friendship applications (including spandex pics,) and a nominating committee commence to review the applications and submit recommendations to Katy for final approval.

Note to PAC: I will personally have a live steer of our best variety and finest finish shipped to your local butcher if you float me a favor here.

A spandex pic would guarantee a blackball upon application review, although the thought of Mrs. PAC catching a glimpse of me staring at, say, HFN reclining in a Spandex thong is darkly amusing. But beef? You're a mortal lock. I'll commence the paperwork.

TheBYUGuy
01-29-2010, 12:00 PM
LOL... I don't understand why anyone would get their feelings hurt over a few dipsticks on a message board.

I agree with this. BTW, you haven't hurt my feelings, but I won't pretend to speak for everyone here.

byu71
01-29-2010, 12:02 PM
LOL... I don't understand why anyone would get their feelings hurt over a few dipsticks on a message board. Its more irritating than anything. I just don't like people to put words in my mouth, especially when they try to say I am throwing a kid under the bus. That gets under my skin a bit.

OK, this is a one time thing though. Don't expect me to back you everytime. I try to stay pretty inconspicuous so I won't incur their wrath.

Just a hint: It helps to say you think Hannity is a bunghole every now and then.

HuskyFreeNorthwest
01-29-2010, 12:03 PM
A spandex pic would guarantee a blackball upon application review, although the thought of Mrs. PAC catching a glimpse of me staring at, say, HFN reclining in a Spandex thong is darkly amusing. But beef? You're a mortal lock. I'll commence the paperwork.

I have one of me standing I can send, do I need to take a different one of me reclining?

Coach McGuirk
01-29-2010, 12:04 PM
I have one of me standing I can send, do I need to take a different one of me reclining?


hey I can put that on canvas if it helps?

TheBYUGuy
01-29-2010, 12:06 PM
I have one of me standing I can send, do I need to take a different one of me reclining?

Before you bother, we'll need to know if the thong is colored like an Easter egg.

ReggaeCoug
01-29-2010, 12:09 PM
I agree with this. BTW, you haven't hurt my feelings, but I won't pretend to speak for everyone here.



deal

ReggaeCoug
01-29-2010, 12:10 PM
OK, this is a one time thing though. Don't expect me to back you everytime. I try to stay pretty inconspicuous so I won't incur their wrath.

Just a hint: It helps to say you think Hannity is a bunghole every now and then.



As long as I don't have to admit to liking Kerry.

Hot Lunch
01-29-2010, 12:13 PM
I see where Bronco is coming from but I just can't agree with him on this.

There is one more thing that may or may not have been discussed about already that really makes me disagree with how Bronco is handling this. If it has been discussed sorry but I missed it and am pointing it out now.

Bronco is mad at Kona and telling him that he has given him word. He is telling him that if he takes the trip you don't have a schollie with us. However, Bronco has recruited 2 players that we know of that have given their word to other universities. Ross Apo commited to Texas and BYU still recruited him and won and everyone loves that and Joe Kruger has been recruited by BYU and has already given his word to Utah.

HuskyFreeNorthwest
01-29-2010, 12:15 PM
Before you bother, we'll need to know if the thong is colored like an Easter egg.

It it gold. Can Easter eggs be gold?

Coach McGuirk
01-29-2010, 12:18 PM
I see where Bronco is coming from but I just can't agree with him on this.

There is one more thing that may or may not have been discussed about already that really makes me disagree with how Bronco is handling this. If it has been discussed sorry but I missed it and am pointing it out now.

Bronco is mad at Kona and telling him that he has given him word. He is telling him that if he takes the trip you don't have a schollie with us. However, Bronco has recruited 2 players that we know of that have given their word to other universities. Ross Apo commited to Texas and BYU still recruited him and won and everyone loves that and Joe Kruger has been recruited by BYU and has already given his word to Utah.


I don't think Bronco has said he expects schools to stop recruiting BYU commits, he expects the kids to not reciprocate.

Indy Coug
01-29-2010, 12:19 PM
I see where Bronco is coming from but I just can't agree with him on this.

There is one more thing that may or may not have been discussed about already that really makes me disagree with how Bronco is handling this. If it has been discussed sorry but I missed it and am pointing it out now.

Bronco is mad at Kona and telling him that he has given him word. He is telling him that if he takes the trip you don't have a schollie with us. However, Bronco has recruited 2 players that we know of that have given their word to other universities. Ross Apo commited to Texas and BYU still recruited him and won and everyone loves that and Joe Kruger has been recruited by BYU and has already given his word to Utah.

Timing is everything.

Hot Lunch
01-29-2010, 12:19 PM
I don't think Bronco has said he expects schools to stop recruiting BYU commits, he expects the kids to not reciprocate.

I know he expects them to no reciprocate but what I am saying is he is recruiting kids that have committed and given their word to other schools. That is another thing I have a problem with. Why can he do it but the players can't?

Hot Lunch
01-29-2010, 12:20 PM
Timing is everything.

So is that like saying that apenalty in the 1st quarter isn't one in the 4th because the game is on the line. It is the same thing. Just different times during the game.

TripletDaddy
01-29-2010, 12:24 PM
I know he expects them to no reciprocate but what I am saying is he is recruiting kids that have committed and given their word to other schools. That is another thing I have a problem with. Why can he do it but the players can't?

Good point. It is a double-standard, to be sure.

Apparently Bronco is not concerned about Apo's ability to live the BYU Honor Code, as evidenced by his inability to keep his word to Texas.

Indy Coug
01-29-2010, 12:24 PM
So is that like saying that penalty in the 1st quarter isn't one in the 4th because the game is on the line. It is the same thing. Just different times during the game.

During the recent recruiting weekend where nearly all 29 commits showed up, they had individual meetings where they reviewed and renewed their committments to BYU. Then right after that, Kona goes on a mad shopping spree.

Hot Lunch
01-29-2010, 12:26 PM
Good point. It is a double-standard, to be sure.

Apparently Bronco is not concerned about Apo's ability to live the BYU Honor Code, as evidenced by his inability to keep his word to Texas.

It is a very good point. I don't care about the timing issue. It wasn't a timing issue in May with Timothy. That was about the same time Apo decommited from Texas for BYU.

Sorry guys. I just can't agree with how Bronco is approaching this one. He is showing a double standard on this one. I see his point but I can't agree with him.

I don't blame Kona for listening to what Notre Dame has to offer. He would be a fool not to.

Hot Lunch
01-29-2010, 12:28 PM
During the recent recruiting weekend where nearly all 29 commits showed up, they had individual meetings where they reviewed and renewed their committments to BYU. Then right after that, Kona goes on a mad shopping spree.

So you are saying it is ok for Bronco to do it but the players can't?

Indy Coug
01-29-2010, 12:30 PM
So you are saying it is ok for Bronco to do it but the players can't?

Answer me this: What has Bronco done in the way of recruiting players that have committed to other schools since Jan 16th?


HINT: Keep in mind that BYU has already had to turn away recruits because they have overcommitted.


P.S. Timing is everything.

TripletDaddy
01-29-2010, 12:31 PM
So you are saying it is ok for Bronco to do it but the players can't?

why do people keep repeating that Kona already gave a verbal? this isn't in dispute.

Prior to signing, the verbal is totally non-binding. Schools can also pull the scholarship, so it is a two-way street.

Bronco is basically asking recruits to give up their ability to seek out the best deal for them simply because BYU offered them first.

I like how other schools handle this: "Go ahead and take your trip. We will call when you get back and de-program your brain."

SCcoug
01-29-2010, 12:33 PM
I like how other schools handle this: "Go ahead and take your trip. We will call when you get back and de-program your brain."

That can't happen in this situation because of the dead period up till loi day.

Hot Lunch
01-29-2010, 12:34 PM
Answer me this: What has Bronco done in the way of recruiting players that have committed to other schools since Jan 16th?


HINT: Keep in mind that BYU has already had to turn away recruits because they have overcommitted.


P.S. Timing is everything.

I don't know what he has or hasn't done and neither do you.

I don't buy your timing thing. He said it to a kid back in May. The NCAA has given school up until a certain time to recruit an athlete. I suggest Bronco use all the time the NCAA has given him. It looks like other schools are and BYU is hurting because of it.

Like I said, he is asking kids not to do what he has done in the past. Bronco is wrong on this one.

Indy Coug
01-29-2010, 12:34 PM
Bronco is basically asking recruits to give up their ability to seek out the best deal for them simply because BYU offered them first.

That is patently false. They are encouraged to look elsewhere prior to making a committment, even if BYU has already offered them. The triggering event isn't the offer, it's the mutual committment between recruit and school.

Hot Lunch
01-29-2010, 12:35 PM
That can't happen in this situation because of the dead period up till loi day.

Then if these kids are commited to you. Bring them in the last weekend you can.

Bronco can still call the kid Sunday night when he gets back from Notre Dame I believe.

Jeff Lebowski
01-29-2010, 12:35 PM
It didn't work out for me yet.

Maybe if you offered to carry her books between classes. Or give her your brownie at lunch.

Hot Lunch
01-29-2010, 12:37 PM
That is patently false. They are encouraged to look elsewhere prior to making a committment, even if BYU has already offered them. The triggering event isn't the offer, it's the mutual committment between recruit and school.

So let me ask again, is it o.k for Bronco to recruit a kid that already has a mutual agreement with another school?

Indy Coug
01-29-2010, 12:37 PM
I don't know what he has or hasn't done and neither do you.

I don't buy your timing thing. He said it to a kid back in May. The NCAA has given school up until a certain time to recruit an athlete. I suggest Bronco use all the time the NCAA has given him. It looks like other schools are and BYU is hurting because of it.

Like I said, he is asking kids not to do what he has done in the past. Bronco is wrong on this one.

Said what to a kid back in May?

Indy Coug
01-29-2010, 12:38 PM
So let me ask again, is it o.k for Bronco to recruit a kid that already has a mutual agreement with another school?

Give me a specific example with the specific dates involved.

Hot Lunch
01-29-2010, 12:40 PM
Give me a specific example with the specific dates involved.

Ross Apo had a mutual agreement with Texas. Do you really need anything else?

Hot Lunch
01-29-2010, 12:41 PM
Said what to a kid back in May?

He said the same thing to Timothy that he said to Kona back in April or May.

Blueintheface
01-29-2010, 12:41 PM
Ross Apo had a mutual agreement with Texas. Do you really need anything else?

Were handshakes exchanged? Winks given?

Indy Coug
01-29-2010, 12:41 PM
Ross Apo had a mutual agreement with Texas. Do you really need anything else?

Tell me specifically what BYU did to recruit Apo between his verbal to Texas and his press conference with Heaps and Stout. Heaps certainly continued to recruit him, but Bronco has no control over that.

Hot Lunch
01-29-2010, 12:41 PM
Were handshakes exchanged? Winks given?

My guess is Ross had his fingers crossed with is left hand behind his back.

Hot Lunch
01-29-2010, 12:43 PM
Tell me specifically what BYU did to recruit Apo between his verbal to Texas and his press conference with Heaps. Heaps certainly recruited him, but Bronco has no control over that.

Since you know exactly what happened in that recruiting situation why don't you fill us in mr. insider.

LA Ute
01-29-2010, 12:46 PM
When I think back to what I was like at age 18 I am glad I never had to undergo the kind of pressure elite high school athletes face in the recruiting arena. I don't know that I would have handled it well.

Indy Coug
01-29-2010, 12:47 PM
Since you know exactly what happened in that recruiting situation why don't you fill us in mr. insider.

It's pretty damn simple here HotLunch, before you say you don't like how Bronco is doing something, why not first have some specfics of what Bronco actually did before objecting to it?

I don't have to be Mr. Insider to recognize you appear to be talking out of ignorance on this issue. I'm more than willing to revise my assessment of your position if you can provide more details than what you've coughed up so far.

TripletDaddy
01-29-2010, 12:48 PM
That is patently false. They are encouraged to look elsewhere prior to making a committment, even if BYU has already offered them. The triggering event isn't the offer, it's the mutual committment between recruit and school.

triggering event? are you talking about contracts? please expound.

Are you suggesting that a verbal commitment is binding in college football recruiting?

Indy Coug
01-29-2010, 12:51 PM
triggering event? are you talking about contracts? please expound.

Are you suggesting that a verbal commitment is binding in college football recruiting?

The statement you made that I objected to is that you claimed BYU refused to allow recruits to look around once BYU OFFERED them. An offer from BYU is not a verbal commitment, and there are multiple media accounts, should you feel interested enough to do some research, where recruits stated that Bronco encouraged them to look elsewhere prior to committing.

TripletDaddy
01-29-2010, 12:55 PM
The statement you made that I objected to is that you claimed BYU refused to allow recruits to look around once BYU OFFERED them. An offer from BYU is not a verbal commitment, and there are multiple media accounts, should you feel interested enough to do some research where recruits stated that Bronco encouraged them to look elsewhere prior to committing.

where did I say this? even after the kid commits he can still look elsewhere. the verbal is not binding.

prior to or after the verbal commit/acceptance....these are non-binding commitments. In truth, they are not really commitments. They are more like commitments to commit in the future. If bronco offers and the kid accepts and then Bronco subsequently tells the kid that he can't look elsewhere without losing the scholarship, Bronco is asking the kid to give up his right to look elsewhere.

so again, what do you mean by "triggering event?" what is being triggered?

Coach McGuirk
01-29-2010, 12:58 PM
So let me ask again, is it o.k for Bronco to recruit a kid that already has a mutual agreement with another school?


Yes it is. and Yes it is okay for the kid to go. I agree with you on that Bronco should schedule the last visit for the weekend right before the dead period. I think in this case, Bronco saw that Kona would most likely end up somewhere else if he is shopping, probably stated that he couldn't hold the scholarship if he was shopping as they were out but still had some guys that wanted to come. Kona wants both, Bronco needs to choose.

I am okay with this. On both ends. I am not mad at Kona, and I do agree he should have listened. I am not mad at Bronco, he had to make a play. Especially if there was someone he wanted that he had to tell no to.

Indy Coug
01-29-2010, 01:00 PM
where did I say this? even after the kid commits he can still look elsewhere. the verbal is not binding.

prior to or after the verbal commit/acceptance....these are non-binding commitments. In truth, they are not really commitments. They are more like commitments to commit in the future. If bronco offers and the kid accepts and then Bronco subsequently tells the kid that he can't look elsewhere without losing the scholarship, Bronco is asking the kid to give up his right to look elsewhere.

so again, what do you mean by "triggering event?" what is being triggered?


Bronco is basically asking recruits to give up their ability to seek out the best deal for them simply because BYU offered them first.

As for whether something like a verbal committment is legally enforceable or not is besides the point. Bronco can draw up the rules however he wants. If he states that the conditions for BYU offering a scholarship is that a recruit in turn will not take official recruiting trips to other schools, and the recruit agrees to the terms, then that is the agreement.

The triggering event is the athlete verbally committing to BYU, not the mere offer of a scholarship, and agreeing to the terms of the agreement spelled out by Bronco.

Hot Lunch
01-29-2010, 01:00 PM
It's pretty damn simple here HotLunch, before you say you don't like how Bronco is doing something, why not first have some specfics of what Bronco actually did before objecting to it?

I don't have to be Mr. Insider to recognize you appear to be talking out of ignorance on this issue. I'm more than willing to revise my assessment of your position if you can provide more details than what you've coughed up so far.

Is Apo not having a mutual agreement with another school enough evidence for you? What more do you really need to know than that. That is all the evidence you need. If you want more, Joe Kruger was at a couple of BYU games on the sideline before a couple of games. Someone was talking to him and giving him tickets.

Like I said, it is ok for Apo and Bronco to do this because it benefits BYU. But let's crucify the kid when it doesn't favor BYU. Think of Ben Olsen and all the missionaries that came to BYU after committing to another school before they left as other examples.

Think what you will about my so called ignorance on this subject or my stand on this. I know what I know and I will leave it at that.

You obviously think you know exactly what has happened on the recruiting trail for BYU and I say bullshit to that. You can think what you want and I am fine with it. Keep reading what you read on TBS. They are as blue as the come over there and don't post anything that would be objective to BYU.

Like I said before, I see where Bronco is coming from on this. I just don't agree with it. If you can't accept that people can have other opinions about something this then Go To Hell!

Hot Lunch
01-29-2010, 01:02 PM
Y

I am okay with this. On both ends. I am not mad at Kona, and I do agree he should have listened. I am not mad at Bronco, he had to make a play. Especially if there was someone he wanted that he had to tell no to.

I am not mad at Bronco either. I don't care anymore. I am just saying I don't agree with it. Bronco did what he thought was best for him and his program.

byu71
01-29-2010, 01:03 PM
Apparently Bronco is not concerned about Apo's ability to live the BYU Honor Code, as evidenced by his inability to keep his word to Texas.

LOL, when you hold yourself and your University out to be the standard bearer of virute and integrity, some people don't understand that because of having the truth, you don't have to follow the same guidelines you propose for others.

Coach McGuirk
01-29-2010, 01:04 PM
I don't care anymore.


Boo!

Hot Lunch
01-29-2010, 01:04 PM
Bronco can draw up the rules however he wants. If he states that the conditions for BYU offering a scholarship is that a recruit in turn will not take official recruiting trips to other schools, and the recruit agrees to the terms, then that is the agreement.


You are right. It is his program and he can put the rules of the game in place. We all don't have to agree with what he does.

Some people can't handle when other don't agree with Bronco.

byu71
01-29-2010, 01:05 PM
Since you know exactly what happened in that recruiting situation why don't you fill us in mr. insider.

Give up. You can never convince Indy a coach at BYU did something wrong. Were you around in the last days of Crowton???

Hot Lunch
01-29-2010, 01:06 PM
Give up. You can never convince Indy a coach at BYU did something wrong. Were you around in the last days of Crowton???

I wasn't around during the Crowton days. I watched from a far and laughed during that time period. When I say watched, I didn't look at message boards. Sometimes I wish I would have never found them.

TripletDaddy
01-29-2010, 01:06 PM
As for whether something like a verbal committment is legally enforceable or not is besides the point. Bronco can draw up the rules however he wants. If he states that the conditions for BYU offering a scholarship is that a recruit in turn will not take official recruiting trips to other schools, and the recruit agrees to the terms, then that is the agreement.

The triggering event is the athlete verbally committing to BYU, not the mere offer of a scholarship, and agreeing to the terms of the agreement spelled out by Bronco.

Legal? These aren't legal issues. I am talking about in the landscape of college football...verbals are not enforceable. A kid can still visit and often does, even after committing elsewhere. Bronco's tactic is the low-road and very thin-skinned.

Nobody is disputing that Bronco "can" do what he did. The issue is whether it is weak and insecure to threaten to pull the scholarship if the kid does visit elsewhere.

i think it is. You disagree. No worries.

I am still confused about the "triggering event" language. To accept a scholarship offer prior to LOI Day is to "trigger" what, exactly? The agreement is non-binding. If you are simply pointing out that Kona is agreeing to lose his scholarship if he visits elsewhere, well nobody is disputing that, either.

TripletDaddy
01-29-2010, 01:07 PM
Give up. You can never convince Indy a coach at BYU did something wrong. Were you around in the last days of Crowton???

I am amused by Indy's appeal to contract law ("triggering event?"), only to later claim that the legality of the agreement is beside the point. Every now and then Indy gets excited and starts using terms that are outside of his actuarial wheelhouse. lol.

byu71
01-29-2010, 01:08 PM
I wasn't around during the Crowton days. I watched from a far and laughed during that time period. When I say watched, I didn't look at message boards. Sometimes I wish I would have never found them.

Come on you dont' mean that. If you had been around you could have seen one of the best defenses of coach going down in flames in your lifetime. Indy even had me convinced. I was the second to last guy off the boat.

Hot Lunch
01-29-2010, 01:09 PM
Come on you dont' mean that. If you had been around you could have seen one of the best defenses of coach going down in flames in your lifetime. Indy even had me convinced. I was the second to last guy off the boat.

LOL. You just made Indy's opinion move a few notches in my book.

cougjunkie
01-29-2010, 01:10 PM
I am sticking by my stance that Bronco saw the kid wavering, decided that he was going to try and make a power play because he new that if ND had the last word he would lose the kid for sure. It did not work but in the mean time he is alright with it not working because now he sets a precedent for all future recruits.

Also I would not be shocked if after his ND trip, Schwenke and Bronco come to some sort of agreement and we still see him in Cougar Blue. (Not likely but possible)

Coach McGuirk
01-29-2010, 01:10 PM
Sometimes I wish I would have never found them.


Once again, BOO! The internal anguish you are heaping upon me is unbearable!

jay santos
01-29-2010, 01:11 PM
Kids can commit, decommit, take trips, commit, take more trips, commit again, decommit again. They can do whatever the hell they want. Are kids who commit and decommit flaky or dishonest? Maybe, maybe not. We're talking about 18 year old prima donas here. And we're not recruiting judges or future general authorities or nuclear physicists. We need guys who will run 30 mph at other people and crush them with their shoulder pads. It doesn't matter if they are a little flaky.

Beyond this, it's all negotiation. If you're dealing with a two star recruit from American Fork, you have the negotiating leverage. Tell what you want. He has to recruit you. He has to convince you we need him. He has to fill out a Book of Mormon reading chart, whatever. If you're dealing with a 4 star recruit who's being courted by Notre Dame or USC or UCLA or whatever, then the kid has the negotiating leverage. You kiss his ass, you tell him what he wants to hear. You tell him the scholarship is there whenever he wants it.

That's how it's done. If the top schools in the nation are being held hostage by a recruit, than damn straight Bronco better bend down and do what it takes to get the kid to sign. Rough him up once he gets in camp, not before.

Surfah
01-29-2010, 01:13 PM
I see where Bronco is coming from but I just can't agree with him on this.

There is one more thing that may or may not have been discussed about already that really makes me disagree with how Bronco is handling this. If it has been discussed sorry but I missed it and am pointing it out now.

Bronco is mad at Kona and telling him that he has given him word. He is telling him that if he takes the trip you don't have a schollie with us. However, Bronco has recruited 2 players that we know of that have given their word to other universities. Ross Apo commited to Texas and BYU still recruited him and won and everyone loves that and Joe Kruger has been recruited by BYU and has already given his word to Utah.

Think of it this way:

If you have a girlfriend can you keep guys from hitting on her? No. But if your girlfriend decides she wants to go on a date or two with these other guys then there is a problem with you and your girlfriend, no? Are you going to let your girlfriend go out on these dates? Are you insecure or small-time if you put your foot down and say if you want to go on a date with these other guys we're through?

Now if I hit on your girlfriend and she's dazzled and wants to hook up, well that problem is between you and your girl. Not me. You may hate me and want to kick my ass after school, but I am not the issue. Your girl and her commitment to you is.

Indy Coug
01-29-2010, 01:13 PM
Is Apo not having a mutual agreement with another school enough evidence for you? What more do you really need to know than that. That is all the evidence you need. If you want more, Joe Kruger was at a couple of BYU games on the sideline before a couple of games. Someone was talking to him and giving him tickets.

Like I said, it is ok for Apo and Bronco to do this because it benefits BYU. But let's crucify the kid when it doesn't favor BYU. Think of Ben Olsen and all the missionaries that came to BYU after committing to another school before they left as other examples.

Think what you will about my so called ignorance on this subject or my stand on this. I know what I know and I will leave it at that.

You obviously think you know exactly what has happened on the recruiting trail for BYU and I say bullshit to that. You can think what you want and I am fine with it. Keep reading what you read on TBS. They are as blue as the come over there and don't post anything that would be objective to BYU.

Like I said before, I see where Bronco is coming from on this. I just don't agree with it. If you can't accept that people can have other opinions about something this then Go To Hell!

So you're saying it's impossible for Apo to have decommitted on his own? I'm still looking for examples of what BYU did to recruit Apo after he committed to Texas.

When did Kruger commit to Utah and when did he get tickets to BYU games? Who gave Kruger the tickets?

I can accept people having differing opinions, but if they are going to offer situations like Apo as an example of Bronco being hypocritical, then I merely ask for details to determine if someone knows what they are talking about or if they are simply pulling stuff out of their ass. If it puts you out that much to back up your accusations, that's your problem, not mine.

If you can't accept that people will differ with your opinion, then you need to step outside of whatever bubble it is you live in.

byu71
01-29-2010, 01:13 PM
I am sticking by my stance that Bronco saw the kid wavering, decided that he was going to try and make a power play because he new that if ND had the last word he would lose the kid for sure. It did not work but in the mean time he is alright with it not working because now he sets a precedent for all future recruits.

Also I would not be shocked if after his ND trip, Schwenke and Bronco come to some sort of agreement and we still see him in Cougar Blue. (Not likely but possible)

Have you ever seen two good people have an honest agreement about how something should come down. Later one of them says something bad about the other and vice versa.

There really is no right or wrong, but sides are chosen. I think it is quite natural for most Cougar fans to line up behind Bronco. After all he still has a great recruiting class and won 11 games last year. I don't mind that. However, those who have to go further and make Kona out to be some kind of villain I think are......... Luckily I stopped, I am nice to everyone.

Coach McGuirk
01-29-2010, 01:14 PM
Think of it this way:

If you have a girlfriend can you keep guys from hitting on her? No. But if your girlfriend decides she wants to go on a date or two with these other guys then there is a problem with you and your girlfriend, no? Are you going to let your girlfriend go out on these dates? Are you insecure or small-time if you put your foot down and say if you want to go on a date with these other guys were through?

Now if I hit on your girlfriend and she's dazzled and wants to hook up, well that problem is between you and your girl. Not me. You may hate me and want to kick my ass after school, but I am not the issue. Your girl and her commitment to you is.


The "don't hate the playa, hate the game!" defense. Nice!

Indy Coug
01-29-2010, 01:16 PM
I am amused by Indy's appeal to contract law ("triggering event?"), only to later claim that the legality of the agreement is beside the point. Every now and then Indy gets excited and starts using terms that are outside of his actuarial wheelhouse. lol.

I can see DDD is going to do everything in his power to skirt around the point I was making. Classic DDD.

Surfah
01-29-2010, 01:17 PM
The "don't hate the playa, hate the game!" defense. Nice!

:cool:

Indy Coug
01-29-2010, 01:19 PM
I am still confused about the "triggering event" language. To accept a scholarship offer prior to LOI Day is to "trigger" what, exactly? The agreement is non-binding. If you are simply pointing out that Kona is agreeing to lose his scholarship if he visits elsewhere, well nobody is disputing that, either.

Stop being so literal. The issue here is at what point does BYU consider a recruit obligated to abide by certain guidelines with their recruiting activities.

You claimed it was when BYU merely offered.

I claim it's when BYU and the recruit mutually agreed to a scholarship offer and all of the conditions that come with the offer.

cougjunkie
01-29-2010, 01:20 PM
Nobody is disputing that Bronco "can" do what he did. The issue is whether it is weak and insecure to threaten to pull the scholarship if the kid does visit elsewhere.

i think it is. You disagree. No worries.



Just curious is it weak when Texas, Georgia Tech or Auburn do it?

Texas is the most notorious for it. All scholarship offers have time limits on them. (Granted if you are Jeffcoat or Hicks that time limit is February 3rd). If you are Ross Apo it is 2 weeks.

Mack Brown told Ross Apo that if he attended BYUs junior day they would pull his scholllie.

Surfah
01-29-2010, 01:22 PM
Just curious is it weak when Texas, Georgia Tech or Auburn do it?

Texas is the most notorious for it. All scholarship offers have time limits on them. (Granted if you are Jeffcoat or Hicks that time limit is February 3rd). If you are Ross Apo it is 2 weeks.

Mack Brown told Ross Apo that if he attended BYUs junior day they would pull his scholllie.

Mack Brown is insecure and weak.

jay santos
01-29-2010, 01:26 PM
Just curious is it weak when Texas, Georgia Tech or Auburn do it?

Texas is the most notorious for it. All scholarship offers have time limits on them. (Granted if you are Jeffcoat or Hicks that time limit is February 3rd). If you are Ross Apo it is 2 weeks.

Mack Brown told Ross Apo that if he attended BYUs junior day they would pull his scholllie.

Who has the leverage in the Ross Apo/Mack Brown relationship?

Who has the leverage in a Bronco/4 star LDS recruit leverage?

Ross Apo is to Texas as a 2 star OL recruit from Utah County is to BYU.

cougjunkie
01-29-2010, 01:28 PM
Who has the leverage in the Ross Apo/Mack Brown relationship?

Who has the leverage in a Bronco/4 star LDS recruit leverage?

Ross Apo is to Texas as a 2 star OL recruit from Utah County is to BYU.

Obviously Apo had the leverage since he decommitted from Texas.

Obviously Bronco has the leverage since he pulled Konas schollie offer. Even though Konas dad is all over the media saying his son still really wants to go to BYU.

Jay if you want BYU to be big time they need to act like it.

TripletDaddy
01-29-2010, 01:37 PM
Stop being so literal. The issue here is at what point does BYU consider a recruit obligated to abide by certain guidelines with their recruiting activities.

You claimed it was when BYU merely offered.

I claim it's when BYU and the recruit mutually agreed to a scholarship offer and all of the conditions that come with the offer.

ha. ok, Indy. I will stop be so literal.

To your point about the exact moment in the time continuum wherein football commitments are conceived, I still don't see the additive value of your point. Nobody is disputing that the coach has the ability to pull the scholarship or to even threaten the recruit with the pulling of the scholarship. And nobody was forcing the kid to agree to those terms. Both were willing parties.

Indy Coug
01-29-2010, 01:39 PM
ha. ok, Indy. I will stop be so literal.

To your point about the exact moment in the time continuum wherein football commitments are conceived, I still don't see the additive value of your point. Nobody is disputing that the coach has the ability to pull the scholarship or to even threaten the recruit with the pulling of the scholarship. And nobody was forcing the kid to agree to those terms. Both were willing parties.

You just misrepresented or mistated when the BYU coaches do that. If you will concede that it does not occur at the moment the scholarship is offered, we can move on.

jay santos
01-29-2010, 01:41 PM
Obviously Apo had the leverage since he decommitted from Texas.

Obviously Bronco has the leverage since he pulled Konas schollie offer. Even though Konas dad is all over the media saying his son still really wants to go to BYU.

Jay if you want BYU to be big time they need to act like it.

You're right. But this is how I perceive big time programs recruit. They kiss butt to the cream of the crop and they play hard ball with the filler. Cream of the crop for BYU is 4/5 star guys. Filler is the 2 star LDS kid praying BYU offers him a schollie. Filler for Texas is Ross Apo.

Indy Coug
01-29-2010, 01:43 PM
You're right. But this is how I perceive big time programs recruit. They kiss butt to the cream of the crop and they play hard ball with the filler. Cream of the crop for BYU is 4/5 star guys. Filler is the 2 star LDS kid praying BYU offers him a schollie. Filler for Texas is Ross Apo.

If Apo is offered by Texas over a year prior to LOI day, he isn't filler.

TripletDaddy
01-29-2010, 01:45 PM
You just misrepresented or mistated when the BYU coaches do that. If you will concede that it does not occur at the moment the scholarship is offered, we can move on.

yes, i did misstate. offering means nothing. Which puts the offer on par with the acceptance. both are meaningless.

and this still brings us back to your contention of triggering events. What is being triggered? You still haven't said. Since nothing is enforceable, and there are no terms (because there is no agreement in place), what exactly is being triggered when an offer is made and accepted prior to LOI day?

Indy Coug
01-29-2010, 01:47 PM
what exactly is being triggered when an offer is made and accepted prior to LOI day?

As far it relates to the Kona situation, that the offer is contingent upon a recruit not continuing to take official recruiting visits elsewhere.

Indy Coug
01-29-2010, 01:48 PM
Read about what Brian Kelly, the new coach at Notre Dame, has to say about commitments and continuing to see other schools:

http://www.cougarboard.com/noframes/message.html?id=5216417

jay santos
01-29-2010, 01:49 PM
If Apo is offered by Texas over a year prior to LOI day, he isn't filler.

According to Rivals, Texas has two 5 star recruits and 19 4 star recruits. They have five 4 star WR's. Texas can pick up the phone and replace a Ross Apo in 10 minutes.

byu71
01-29-2010, 01:49 PM
As far as Apo goes, I will be consistent. I think it was fair of him to break his committment, we all know they aren't real committments anyway. If they were why the heck would we make such a big deal of them on signing day.

I wonder. When other schools have kids decommit, does it rise to the level of the kid can't be trusted and maybe has unclean habits. I don't follow other schools, so maybe this isn't unique to BYU fans.

Indy Coug
01-29-2010, 01:51 PM
According to Rivals, Texas has two 5 star recruits and 19 4 star recruits. They have five 4 star WR's. Texas can pick up the phone and replace a Ross Apo in 10 minutes.

So? Filler recruits don't get offers more than 12 months prior to LOI Day. They clearly viewed Apo as something significantly more than filler, regardless of whether or not they could go restock their cupboard.

MarkGrace
01-29-2010, 01:52 PM
It sure has been fun to watch people fight in this thread. I've especially enjoyed the "contracts gone awry" exchange between Indy and DDD. In some tangential way it helps me feel like I'm studying for the bar exam.

Surfah
01-29-2010, 01:53 PM
Read about what Brian Kelly, the new coach at Notre Dame, has to say about commitments and continuing to see other schools:

http://www.cougarboard.com/noframes/message.html?id=5216417

And that is why it's not a double standard and my girlfriend analogy works. If your girlfriend wants to go on a date with another person then she is not 100% committed to you.

TripletDaddy
01-29-2010, 01:57 PM
As far it relates to the Kona situation, that the offer is contingent upon a recruit not continuing to take official recruiting visits elsewhere.

so back to square 1, why is this additive to the discussion? maybe I am missing your great point.

The general discussion here is that Kona should not be penalized for seeking further light and knowledge vs Bronco was simply doing that which has been done in other worlds.

Your point seems to be that fig leaves make good aprons.

Nice point, but not really part of the overall mysteries being explored here today.

cougjunkie
01-29-2010, 01:58 PM
And that is why it's not a double standard and my girlfriend analogy works. If your girlfriend wants to go on a date with another person then she is not 100% committed to you.

So what you are saying is if you and Gidget were just hanging out and she said, you know I am going to go on a date with DDD. You would be like well I like you but we have yet to have the DTR talk and I am seeing a few other girls as well weighing my options so go right ahead. After she goes out with DDD she realizes he sucks and comes back to you and tells you she really likes you. You tell her the feeling is mutual and you start dating exclusively. About 6 months go by, and you are set to get married. A week before your wedding she says:

"Surfah this hot stud muffin Cougjunkie just came by and asked me out, I am good friends with his sister and her husband. Is it cool if I go on a date with him I dont really like him (although he is totally dreamy) but I want to hang out with his sister and her husband and he is buying my dinner!"

You would obviously be very upset as your chances of marrying Gidget after she goes on a date with Cougjunkie are about .000000000000000000001%.

TripletDaddy
01-29-2010, 02:00 PM
So what you are saying is if you and Gidget were just hanging out and she said, you know I am going to go on a date with DDD. You would be like well I like you but we have yet to have the DTR talk and I am seeing a few other girls as well weighing my options so go right ahead. After she goes out with DDD she realizes he sucks and comes back to you and tells you she really likes you. You tell her the feeling is mutual and you start dating exclusively. About 6 months go by, and you are set to get married. A week before your wedding she says:

"Surfah this hot stud muffin Cougjunkie just came by and asked me out, I am good friends with his sister and her husband. Is it cool if I go on a date with him I dont really like him (although he is totally dreamy) but I want to hang out with his sister and her husband and he is buying my dinner!"

You would obviously be very upset as your chances of marrying Gidget after she goes on a date with Cougjunkie are about .000000000000000000001%.

This hypo is totally unintelligible. It is worse than huskyfreenorthwest's cheese hypothetical.

Indy Coug
01-29-2010, 02:01 PM
so back to square 1, why is this additive to the discussion? maybe I am missing your great point.

You admittedly made an erroneous statement and I was trying to set the record straight. You then proceeded to wander off waxing poetic about legal implications and whether or not an actuary is licensed to use the term "triggering event" even if he wasn't using it in a legal sense.

If you had bothered to read my intial reply to you carefully enough and stayed on topic, this would have been over 20 posts ago.

TheBYUGuy
01-29-2010, 02:02 PM
So what you are saying is if you and Gidget were just hanging out and she said, you know I am going to go on a date with DDD. You would be like well I like you but we have yet to have the DTR talk and I am seeing a few other girls as well weighing my options so go right ahead. After she goes out with DDD she realizes he sucks and comes back to you and tells you she really likes you. You tell her the feeling is mutual and you start dating exclusively. About 6 months go by, and you are set to get married. A week before your wedding she says:

"Surfah this hot stud muffin Cougjunkie just came by and asked me out, I am good friends with his sister and her husband. Is it cool if I go on a date with him I dont really like him (although he is totally dreamy) but I want to hang out with his sister and her husband and he is buying my dinner!"

You would obviously be very upset as your chances of marrying Gidget after she goes on a date with Cougjunkie are about .000000000000000000001%.

So what you're saying is that your program is the same calibre of Notre Dame's? junkie, don't sell yourself short. Not only were you sexy 50 years ago, but you're still sexy today.

TripletDaddy
01-29-2010, 02:03 PM
So what you're saying is that your program is the same calibre of Notre Dame's? junkie, don't sell yourself short. Not only were you sexy 50 years ago, but you're still sexy today.

hack.

Coach McGuirk
01-29-2010, 02:04 PM
This hypo is totally unintelligible. It is worse than huskyfreenorthwest's cheese hypothetical.


Looks like someone else just made the un-invite list.

TripletDaddy
01-29-2010, 02:06 PM
Looks like someone else just made the un-invite list.

Junkie will get a warning, but I will leave it up to Gidget. She is truly the offended party in this hypo. She wasn't event given the opportunity to get to know me. Everyone has a bad date here and there.:(

cougjunkie
01-29-2010, 02:08 PM
Junkie will get a warning, but I will leave it up to Gidget. She is truly the offended party in this hypo. She wasn't event given the opportunity to get to know me. Everyone has a bad date here and there.:(

When sending highlight film you might want to actually send highlights!

TripletDaddy
01-29-2010, 02:09 PM
When sending highlight film you might want to actually send highlights!

I don't want to inadvertently set off a "triggering event."

cougjunkie
01-29-2010, 02:10 PM
I don't want to inadvertently set off a "triggering event."

As long as you are fully committed to it and dont leave them feeling blue, its alright to set off a triggering event.

Tone Loc
01-29-2010, 02:14 PM
CUF Takes 6th Street: Uninvite List

1. Tone Loc
2. exUte
3. dabrockster (re-invited Jan 24, 2010)
4. whatshappeningman

CUF Takes 6th Street: Warning List
1. nikuman
2. HBCoug

Can you imagine how sweet this alternate party is going to be with me, exute, whatshappeningman, and a few other annointeds attending? Just as long as we keep that little 'I am taking my ball and going home' weasel DDD out, it will be dope.

TripletDaddy
01-29-2010, 02:16 PM
Can you imagine how sweet this alternate party is going to be with me, exute, whatshappeningman, and a few other annointeds attending? Just as long as we keep that little 'I am taking my ball and going home' weasel DDD out, it will be dope.

You are already uninvited, so admittedly there is little that I can do here.

HuskyFreeNorthwest
01-29-2010, 02:22 PM
This hypo is totally unintelligible. It is worse than huskyfreenorthwest's cheese hypothetical.

STFU!

Indy Coug
01-29-2010, 02:22 PM
It's the Newmanium!

HuskyFreeNorthwest
01-29-2010, 02:23 PM
Can someone please tell me if gold is an acceptable Easter egg color? I have kept PAC waiting all day.

Surfah
01-29-2010, 02:40 PM
So what you are saying is if you and Gidget were just hanging out and she said, you know I am going to go on a date with DDD. You would be like well I like you but we have yet to have the DTR talk and I am seeing a few other girls as well weighing my options so go right ahead. After she goes out with DDD she realizes he sucks and comes back to you and tells you she really likes you. You tell her the feeling is mutual and you start dating exclusively. About 6 months go by, and you are set to get married. A week before your wedding she says:

"Surfah this hot stud muffin Cougjunkie just came by and asked me out, I am good friends with his sister and her husband. Is it cool if I go on a date with him I dont really like him (although he is totally dreamy) but I want to hang out with his sister and her husband and he is buying my dinner!"

You would obviously be very upset as your chances of marrying Gidget after she goes on a date with Cougjunkie are about .000000000000000000001%.

That's exactly what I am saying.

And no joke, that's pretty much what happened with me and Gidget. Like Bronco I pulled her schollie when she went tripping. But she felt the Spirit and the error of her ways and came back to me and it's been AG since!

So I have hope for Kona yet!

Hot Lunch
01-29-2010, 02:44 PM
Can someone please tell me if gold is an acceptable Easter egg color? I have kept PAC waiting all day.

You need to add something to it. Like Green and Red gemstones. That will make it acceptable.