I watched the Bronco show

[byu71]

last nite and thoughts I have had before came back in mind.

10 wins again. Number 13 ranking. Sure no championship, but TCU is one hell of a team. It wouldn't be bothering me if we had gotten worked by Florida, so TCU beating us really doesn't bother me. The FSU thing no longer bothers me, we are ranked 13. We beat Utah.

I can understand Bronco's frustration. He has to be saying to himself, why aren't these folks elated. I will admit I was late to the CC pregame function, but there in time to hear Holmoe talk. It seemed he was begging folks to appreciate this season and appreciate Max Hall. Maybe my walking in put a damper on things, but the place was full and I would say, dead, no enthusiasm.

Bronco talks about the team having fun. I have said and I will say again, it might be age and it might be the real BYU fans have left me behind, it might be just nothing. Fun for the new fans may be all the other stuff that goes on besides football. It might be age, but I keep coming back to the feeling I am being forced to have Tobasco sauce on my Ice Cream.

[Commando]

i for one am still bothered by FSU. That should have been a mulligan and we got our asses kicked somehow. If we beat OU, Airforce, and Utah we should have smoked FSU. We'd be the ONLY one-loss team in the country and would merit serious consideration for a BCS bid over BSU. ARRGGGGHHHH!!!!

[HotBox]

last nite and thoughts I have had before came back in mind.

10 wins again. Number 13 ranking. Sure no championship, but TCU is one hell of a team. It wouldn't be bothering me if we had gotten worked by Florida, so TCU beating us really doesn't bother me. The FSU thing no longer bothers me, we are ranked 13. We beat Utah.

I can understand Bronco's frustration. He has to be saying to himself, why aren't these folks elated. I will admit I was late to the CC pregame function, but there in time to hear Holmoe talk. It seemed he was begging folks to appreciate this season and appreciate Max Hall. Maybe my walking in put a damper on things, but the place was full and I would say, dead, no enthusiasm.

No question and 10 wins is great. But when your rival is winning 10 games, and going undefeated twice in four years, 10 wins takes a hit on the scale of greatness, it becomes relative and losses savor. And let's face it, the MWC is bad, there are really only four games that as a fan you are worried about the win, the others you hope the Cougars win by a significant enough margin to assure the pollsters that it was really no contest.

Clearly, winning 10 games is difficult to do, but a win against crap is still, just beating crap. I was ecstatic about the OU win (at the time) very happy with the Air Force win, disappointed that the Cougar offense nearly cost the Ute game and supremely disheartened by the FSU and TCU games. In other
words, the season has been a wash at this point.

If the Cougars go to Vegas and put up a win like they did in 2007, I will be very satisfied with this season. If they lay an egg like last year (and it sounds like Bronco is going to put the game second to letting his seniors "enjoy the bowl game experience"), this season will fall into the shadows of other Cougar seasons that had so much promise and left plenty to be desired.

[Goatnapper'96]

last nite and thoughts I have had before came back in mind.

10 wins again. Number 13 ranking. Sure no championship, but TCU is one hell of a team. It wouldn't be bothering me if we had gotten worked by Florida, so TCU beating us really doesn't bother me. The FSU thing no longer bothers me, we are ranked 13. We beat Utah.

I can understand Bronco's frustration. He has to be saying to himself, why aren't these folks elated. I will admit I was late to the CC pregame function, but there in time to hear Holmoe talk. It seemed he was begging folks to appreciate this season and appreciate Max Hall. Maybe my walking in put a damper on things, but the place was full and I would say, dead, no enthusiasm.

Bronco talks about the team having fun. I have said and I will say again, it might be age and it might be the real BYU fans have left me behind, it might be just nothing. Fun for the new fans may be all the other stuff that goes on besides football. It might be age, but I keep coming back to the feeling I am being forced to have Tobasco sauce on my Ice Cream.

I think there are a few things in play concerning the mists of apathy and frustration that Mendenhall and Holmoe are referencing.

Principally, they are correct and BYU fans should be more excited and frequently behave like ungrateful spoiled pussies. Saying that, Mendenhall talks about National Championships and laudy goals. He also chooses team slogans that talk about perfection. Further, when he chooses those slogans the Utes go onto perfection. While I think that many BYU fans have not handled the Ute success real well, to a certain extent Mendenhall is somewhat culpable for creating an unnattainable level of expectations. This rivalry is entirely too zero sum for BYU fans to be able to sit back and enjoy the excellent level of college footbal they have been blessed with when Utah was able to take it a notch higher right in the middle of the Max Hall tenure.

I also think that the level of success in 2007 fanned those flames of expectations. I don't think much of the fanbase trully realized the special nature of the BYU OLBs and experienced DBs in 2007 and just assumed that things would keep rolling offensively and that the team would be just as good in 2008. When their expectation did not materialize they got angry. Obviously the Ute run had an impact. I also think that the Max Hall jekyl and hyde performance led to some criticisms. I don't think BYU fans have ever seen such an experienced QB with what appears to be such a capable supporting cast look so good and then so bad against the same teams with such amazing consistency.

I think that the next qb tenure might not be so ugly if the qb is more consistent and probably moreso if the qb is lucky enough to not have a top 5 conference foe in two different years.

I think there is plenty of blame to go around the past two years for why BYU fans feel so unsatisfied.

I, however, am supremely satisfied. I want more but I think that things are headed in a good direction. In future years we will see how Bronco did a good job weathering this storm, other than his collossal mistakes in 2008 that fanned the flames of expectations. A coach can get away with pissing off fans by being rude or mean or not massaging their inner thighs, but fanning the flames of expectations is just beyond stupid and my guess is Mendenhall will have learned from that mistake.

[jay santos]

last nite and thoughts I have had before came back in mind.

10 wins again. Number 13 ranking. Sure no championship, but TCU is one hell of a team. It wouldn't be bothering me if we had gotten worked by Florida, so TCU beating us really doesn't bother me. The FSU thing no longer bothers me, we are ranked 13. We beat Utah.

I can understand Bronco's frustration. He has to be saying to himself, why aren't these folks elated. I will admit I was late to the CC pregame function, but there in time to hear Holmoe talk. It seemed he was begging folks to appreciate this season and appreciate Max Hall. Maybe my walking in put a damper on things, but the place was full and I would say, dead, no enthusiasm.

Bronco talks about the team having fun. I have said and I will say again, it might be age and it might be the real BYU fans have left me behind, it might be just nothing. Fun for the new fans may be all the other stuff that goes on besides football. It might be age, but I keep coming back to the feeling I am being forced to have Tobasco sauce on my Ice Cream.

There were four games that mattered. We won two. Those were both hell of a lot of fun. We lost the other two, that sucked. Overall a good season not great. We could go 100-0 against Wyoming, UNLV, and SDSU and I will never consider it an accomplishment of any sorts.

[Non Sequitur]

last nite and thoughts I have had before came back in mind.

10 wins again. Number 13 ranking. Sure no championship, but TCU is one hell of a team. It wouldn't be bothering me if we had gotten worked by Florida, so TCU beating us really doesn't bother me. The FSU thing no longer bothers me, we are ranked 13. We beat Utah.

I can understand Bronco's frustration. He has to be saying to himself, why aren't these folks elated. I will admit I was late to the CC pregame function, but there in time to hear Holmoe talk. It seemed he was begging folks to appreciate this season and appreciate Max Hall. Maybe my walking in put a damper on things, but the place was full and I would say, dead, no enthusiasm.

Bronco talks about the team having fun. I have said and I will say again, it might be age and it might be the real BYU fans have left me behind, it might be just nothing. Fun for the new fans may be all the other stuff that goes on besides football. It might be age, but I keep coming back to the feeling I am being forced to have Tobasco sauce on my Ice Cream.

I've said this before -- and been ridiculed by Goat for saying it -- but Bronco has managed to suck all the fun out of BYU football. He's vanilla, boring, no enthusiasm, no fire. He tries to hide his disdain for the fans, but fails at it. When I listen to him I get the feeling that he views the fans as an annoying necessity -- if he had it his way, the games would all be played behind the field house in front of only friends and family of the players.

A lot of the blame has to go to Holmoe too. There seems to be no effort to make the games fun, make them an event. The attitude seems to be that since the games are all sellouts, nothing more needs to be done -- open the gates, play the game, send everyone home. When I lived in Boise, I went to all the home BSU games. I wasn't a fan, but a lot of my friends were. Going to those games was like going to a party. And the fans felt like they were part of the team. The players and coaches were always out in public, mixing with the fans. There was a sense of community with the team and coaches that doesn't exist here. Here, it's the opposite. It's as if Bronco deliberately cloisters the team away from the fans and media. It's his way of punishing us for not appreciating them enough.

Maybe what it will take is for attendance to drop into the 40,000's before those running the football program decide that they need to win the fans over again. I do know that right now there is a lot of dissatisfaction with BYU football. Bronco and Holmoe need to take a long, hard look and ask themselves why they need to beg fans to be excited about a 10-2 team that is nationally ranked. They might discover that it's not just because the fans are ungrateful and uneducated.

[creekster]

I've said this before -- and been ridiculed by Goat for saying it -- but Bronco has managed to suck all the fun out of BYU football. He's vanilla, boring, no enthusiasm, no fire. He tries to hide his disdain for the fans, but fails at it. When I listen to him I get the feeling that he views the fans as an annoying necessity -- if he had it his way, the games would all be played behind the field house in front of only friends and family of the players.

Good point. He sure is a big change over that wild man lavell. Now that was a guy who knew how to throw a party.

[JohnnyLingo]

i for one am still bothered by FSU. That should have been a mulligan and we got our asses kicked somehow. If we beat OU, Airforce, and Utah we should have smoked FSU. We'd be the ONLY one-loss team in the country and would merit serious consideration for a BCS bid over BSU. ARRGGGGHHHH!!!!

Florida State's offensive line so overwhelmingly kicked BYU's butt that nothing else really mattered. That one factor decided the game, in my opinion.

[Non Sequitur]

Good point. He sure is a big change over that wild man lavell. Now that was a guy who knew how to throw a party.

He's a huge change over LaVell. LaVell was always being interviewed and he used to actually talk about football in those interviews. He wasn't condescending, assuming fans weren't smart enough to follow along if he talked football. And he was beloved. He had his own charisma. Do you think Bronco is beloved?

[Goatnapper'96]

He's a huge change over LaVell. LaVell was always being interviewed and he used to actually talk about football in those interviews. He wasn't condescending, assuming fans were smart enough to follow along if he talked football. And he was beloved. He had his own charisma. Do you think Bronco is beloved?

I think if he was himself he would be more beloved. He is trying to be a spiritual giant and it makes him act awkward. I think if he were himself he would still have the disdain for the commercialization of the sport and he would still hate the fans, but it would be in a more rebel without a cause and I think that would create some appeal.

I think that those who are BYU fans but not as much fans of the LDS church get alienated moreso by Bronco's religiosity. I bet you find more about him that bugs you stemming from his approach with respect to the religion. Most of those who still share his conviction to the LDS Church are probably not as bothered.

I still believe the little brother syndrome from the two Ute BCS runs is the biggest reason. I agree that BYU could improve its gameday experience but I think that issue goes deeper than Bronco. I just think he is such a vocal proponent and advocate of the greater cultural trend that leads to the boring gameday experience (cue what President Eyring asked him at his interview) that he becomes a lightning rod.

[creekster]

He's a huge change over LaVell. LaVell was always being interviewed and he used to actually talk about football in those interviews. He wasn't condescending, assuming fans were smart enough to follow along if he talked football. And he was beloved. He had his own charisma. Do you think Bronco is beloved?

I think that is a liottle different issue, and I was just being a smartaleck anyway.

Driving back to my mom's place after the game we were listening to KSL post game and my daughter commented that Bronco sounded really boring. So maybe you are right.

[byu71]

Good point. He sure is a big change over that wild man lavell. Now that was a guy who knew how to throw a party.

LaVelle didn't take the fun out of it though.

I liken it to a trip with the boys instead of one with the boys and their wives.

Of course going with the wives is a lot of fun. However, when you go with the boys it is fun in a different way. You can fart and laugh about it.

Sometimes with BYU football I feel like I am a kid again, having my mom remind me of who I am and how I should act so I don't bring shame on the family. LaVell never made me feel that way.

Note: As I have said before though, maybe this will be the new brand of football fan. Ones who love being told who they are and how they should act and then being able to go forth and tell other fans and the Utes about how they should act. Maybe that is the true football missionary connection and it is being embraced by "true fans".

[Non Sequitur]

I still believe the little brother syndrome from the two Ute BCS runs is the biggest reason. I agree that BYU could improve its gameday experience but I think that issue goes deeper than Bronco. I just think he is such a vocal proponent and advocate of the greater cultural trend that leads to the boring gameday experience (cue what President Eyring asked him at his interview) that he becomes a lightning rod.

If I were going to analyze it, I would say it goes back to the gang-rape scandal. We still haven't recovered from that. Since then everything has been conservative, measured, careful. Control of the program reverted back to those above Holmoe, and it might be a while before that changes. So, I'm probably being a little unfair to Bronco -- maybe he just symbolizes the shift in attitude. Regardless, BYU football has changed, and it's not for the better.

[OrangeUte]

Two things would make gameday in provo more enjoyable... 1. Encourage tailgating... Mormons love to socialize and eat, so IMO, Provo should be a tailgating heaven. And, 2. have the band wander around with the cheerleaders for 2 hours before the game playing the fight song and other songs to get the people revved up.

When i was at syracuse (not a shabby football tradition, but lacking as of late), i loved going to the games b/c for a few hours before kickoff, there was tons of stuff going on. down the road from the carrier dome they had a big lawn with bounce houses set up and kids everywhere. the band was playing and marching around (they would break it into 2 smaller bands and cover the campus with music)... it was a great environment.

The U is beginning to get to this point, and i'm glad. They have already gotten the tailgating down (some of the fans do booze too much and it makes the experience a little bit ridiculous (why not enjoy the game with a buzz instead of sloppy drunk))...

also, the players are exciting enough. they get into the games. max hall, despite his adrenaline induced hatred, could be an exciting cheerleader for the fans (i.e. telling the fans "we're going to win" as the cougs headed off the sidelines at halftime of the Sooner game), so Bronco should be more like Lavell - just be stoic and let the people love you... don't be creative and try to sound articulate and inspiring with your words.

it reminds me of majerus - he was great when he was himself, funny and irreverant... but as soon as he got too serious, he was severely lacking... (think of his short career as a espn broadcaster as contrasted to his guest appearances during march madness while he was still a coach)... bronco just needs to be himself (others have already said this, and i believe it's true).

part of what people loved about Lavell was that he was like Jordan even if you hated his team, you still loved him and felt happy for him when he won. As for Bronco, the only time I really felt that I could hang with the guy was when i saw a picture of he and his brothers on their harleys - kind of like rebel without a cause comment that someone made earlier in this thread...

i think that kyle whittingham is doing a good job of being stoic and letting his coaching speak for itself... he lets the team be the source of excitement for the fans. the ute fans seem to be a little more excited by the players b/c their actual personalities are shining through, rather than some crafted image from the church PR department of a team of typical RM's with wives and kids, etc... let the players be themselves... imagine if max had been able to vent how he felt about the utes before he popped on saturday night... it might have been more lenny gomez and less frank howard...

still, although a ute fan, i can understand byu's history and how that can inspire the fans. i don't think there is much tradition at the games to make them special events, like there is at other games... Not that the "U" has it, but i think that the "U" is letting its program develop its own game day environment instead of trying to force a gameday image on all of its fans.

[byu71]

If I were going to analyze it, I would say it goes back to the gang-rape scandal. We still haven't recovered from that. Since then everything has been conservative, measured, careful. Control of the program reverted back to those above Holmoe, and it might be a while before that changes. So, I'm probably being a little unfair to Bronco -- maybe he just symbolizes the shift in attitude. Regardless, BYU football has changed, and it's not for the better.

I honestly hope I don't hear some GA taking a position on the Hall vs the UofU controversy.

Has anyone over on Utefan used the "as an active LDS Ute fan, I am embarassed for the church and hope they do away with the program".